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Zhumell 20x80. On sale.

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#51 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:07 PM

And, Anthony,

While I seem like the biggest optical snob on the planet. That is not true, either. While I have owned many of the finest binoculars, I have NEVER bought one at full price—most coming from pawn shops, I do own many binoculars that I would steer others away from—every time! You see, as a professional binocular tech for 37 years, I don’t mind if I have to correct a problem. Do I ? ALMOST NEVER!! I doubt EVER having to collimate ANY of my good binoculars, because I choose to steer away from so much of the junk so freely promoted here on the list by those who do not have the experience that comes with that 37 years as a professional optician. This is not just binocular knowledge; it involves knowledge of the industry—being on a first name basis with some of the people who actually manufacture the instruments for the companies that almost ALL newbies THINK are manufacturers!

So, if I can ever help you in any way, please just send me a direct email. Like Kenny, I’ll be here for you. That is if you do not mind associating with the most hated man in the optics industry.

Cheers,

Bill

#52 arowana

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:08 PM



I believe that is incorrect. I tested a brand of the exact same model of these binoculars. I tested the Anttlers Optics (D&B Astro?) version called the Skysweeper 20x80. Cost 169$. The only multicoated surfaces in the entire binocular is the objective lens. The prisms are single coated. The eyepieces, all three groups, are single coated. The multicoating on the objective lens is not high quality, it is more reflective than most. It is supposed to be ANTI-reflective. So seeing it posted here as fmc is exactly the type of mis-information this particular forum strives to eliminate.


This may be a stupid question,and if it is I am sorry,but in a binocular,is the objective lenses the only part of the optical train that is considered "optics"?

CS's
Joey

#53 EdZ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:13 PM


This may be a stupid question,and if it is I am sorry,but in a binocular,is the objective lenses the only part of the optical train that is considered "optics"?

CS's
Joey


no

#54 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:16 PM

Ed Wrote:

1. I believe that is incorrect. I tested a brand of the exact same model of these binoculars. I tested the Anttlers Optics (D&B Astro?) version called the Skysweeper 20x80. Cost 169$. The only multicoated surfaces in the entire binocular is the objective lens. The prisms are single coated. The eyepieces, all three groups, are single coated. The multicoating on the objective lens is not high quality, it is more reflective than most. It is supposed to be ANTI-reflective. So seeing it posted here as fmc is exactly the type of mis-information this particular forum strives to eliminate."

But Ed, you must remember that in business today being accurate doesn't matter. What matters is what you can get people to BELIEVE is accurate. ANd believe me, fortunes are being made on the principle.

Cheers,

Bill

#55 Wes James

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:21 PM

I, too, would like to add that there are many ways to enjoy a hobby. ANY hobby can be as cheap- or expensive as a person chooses it to be.
One of the things this forum serves to do is to help people learn how to get good value for your money. Yes, there are inexpensive binoculars out there that are really good- the Oberwerk Mariner series is one that pops into mind at the moment, and there are bino's that are far more expensive that don't compare to them. So by learning which ones are good value- and which ones aren't, even the new members can benefit.
The past few days there has been some commotion on the forum. This is the internet. It is a gathering of people, and any time you put two people together, you have the potential for conflict, let alone a group of who knows how many. Some people get fired up by the feeling they can stir up a hornets nest. Who knows... but I have been on this forum for some time now, nearly 2 years, and have learned a lot- hopefully made some friends, exchanged a lot of ideas. So I would say to anyone... stick around. Give it a chance. The forum is not always in turmoil, and I hope it does not get stifled and watered-down, or go away due to what conflicts may arise- but grow- and become stronger. In any group, you are going to have people who know what they're talking about- and who don't. In time, you learn who does- and who doesn't. But only in due time, can you do so, and frequently the ones who don't end up either going away- or being pushed away. Hopefully in the process, the good guys don't get pushed away- or lose patience with the group, as these long timers, who really are the experts, are the ones those of us with less experience learn from, grow, and perhaps someday become the ones who are looked up to as well. Give it a chance. I'm willing to bet there are just as many stamp collectors out there who derive a huge amount of pleasure collecting stamps off of envelopes they get in the mail as those with collections that require vaults for safekeeping.

#56 arowana

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:25 PM



This may be a stupid question,and if it is I am sorry,but in a binocular,is the objective lenses the only part of the optical train that is considered "optics"?

CS's
Joey


no


So basically, any company that implies that there product has FMC optics, but is only applied to the objectives is placing a false advertisment?
Because the Zhumell add specifies that the "optics are fully multicoated".

CS's
Joey

#57 Wes James

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:26 PM

So, if I can ever help you in any way, please just send me a direct email. Like Kenny, I’ll be here for you. That is if you do not mind associating with the most hated man in the optics industry.

Cheers,

Bill


... Or one of the more respected...

#58 EdZ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:31 PM



This may be a stupid question,and if it is I am sorry,but in a binocular,is the objective lenses the only part of the optical train that is considered "optics"?

CS's
Joey


no


So basically, any company that implies that there product has FMC optics, but is only applied to the objectives is placing a false advertisment?
Because the Zhumell add specifies that the "optics are fully multicoated".

CS's
Joey


Get educated aabout optics for sale in the market. What do you think we spend most of our time in here doing! We get educated and pass that information on to you. Anybody test these binoculars yet to prove otherwise?

edz

#59 arowana

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:40 PM

The point I was trying to imply is that a company should not specify that a product is one thing when it really is not.
I know you,as well as many others here, know the inside and out of Binoculars.
I was just wondering how they got away with advertising a product such as the Zhumell binoc's with FMC optics when it was only applied to the objectives.
Seems like there should be some kind of regualtion on this type of thing.
I know you should realize your not going to get high dollar quality optics and coatings for $70.00, but implying that they have FMC optics is just wrong if they dont.

CS's
Joey

#60 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:42 PM

"So basically, any company that implies that there product has FMC optics, but is only applied to the objectives is placing a false advertisment?
Because the Zhumell add specifies that the "optics are fully multicoated". --JOEY

Joey, Fully Multi-Coated . . . like . . . like . . . "Collimated" . . . (Sorry Ed, I'll repent) is a clinical term and, as the Bible would say "Not open to private interpretation."

FMC MEANS that ALL glass to air surfaces in the system have been mult-coated. Those are the facts in the original context. From that, you can decide for yourself.

Cheers,

Bill

#61 arowana

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:47 PM

I just think it wrong to advertise such a thing and not deliver a product to that spec.
They dont say that there binoc's are fully collimated,aligned,centered whatever.... So one would not be able to hold them to that.
But as EdZ posted, he had disected binoc's that claimed to be FMC on the optics and only the objectives were. Poorly,but were.
Thats just wrong.(Not you EdZ,what they did)
And Zhumell's ad state's on there 20x80's that they are FMC optics.

CS's
Joey

#62 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 03:49 PM

but implying that they have FMC optics is just wrong if they dont. CS's Joey


Joey: Welcome to our world! And there are more than manufacturers waiting to steer you wrong and some who WOULD turn you against the very people who COULD and WOULD help you most.

Again, in advertising, you don't have to be accurate--just believed!

Cheers,

Bill

#63 KennyJ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:00 PM

< I just think it wrong to advertise such a thing and not deliver a product to that spec. >

Joey ,

You are absolutely correct to think that .

< They dont say that there binoc's are fully collimated,aligned,centered whatever.... So one would not be able to hold them to that. >

-- good point ! --

--but I suppose it COULD be argued under sales of goods acts that any binoculars NOT correctly aligned cannot serve the purpose they were intended for -- i.e for looking at objects through , using BOTH eyes --

-- preferably the SAME object or objects -- and not , as Bill C so amusingly exaggerated about the other day -- with one side aiming at Texas while the other side is pointing towards London ! :-)

Kenny

#64 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:07 PM

Hi Kenny:

I remember you asking me if I had decided what I wanted to get my master degree in. Well, I was thinking about Technical Communications or Graphic Design. However, I have come to believe—based on need--that there would be a greater future in psychiatry.

Cheers,

Bill

#65 KennyJ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:17 PM

< Hi Kenny:

I remember you asking me if I had decided what I wanted to get my master degree in. Well, I was thinking about Technical Communications or Graphic Design. However, I have come to believe—based on need--that there would be a greater future in psychiatry. >

Yet another case of " message understood " :-)

Regards
Kenny

#66 OvidiuDanut

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:21 PM

Well, my real philosophy is to pay an extra buck and get something decent. But these things were so cheap that i ordered actually several pairs.
Finally, after reading all the valuable information provided by some of the most experienced users here, i decided to cancel the order.
Thanks for your really valuable input.

#67 edcannon

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:28 PM

Again, in advertising, you do have to be accurate--
just believed!

I'm sure there's a typo there, that Bill meant you *don't* have to be accurate -- just believed. It's a shame but unfortunately true to at least a significant extent. It's been true since the time of the Roman Empire at least; they are the ones who said, "Caveat emptor!" Let the buyer beware! (There probably are equivalent statements somewhere in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and Sumerian cuneiform.)

#68 KennyJ

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:31 PM

< Finally, after reading all the valuable information provided by some of the most experienced users here, i decided to cancel the order.
Thanks for your really valuable input. >

Ovi ,

My personal opinion is that you were wise to do so , and brave to admit doing so on this forum .

That news will gladden a few hearts around here .

Regards
Kenny

#69 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:32 PM

I can't think of a single country that wouldn't have a few pawn shops. ATMs could tell you where they are. If you trust your senses you can make your money further.

A few years ago, I noticed a 1907 among the $29.00 plastic paperweights. It's cost was $6.00. I sold it for $250. The person I sold it to sold it to a collector in Japan for $500.

And, YES, I can sleep very well. I told these people what they had BEFORE I bought it. Their response: "We don't have anyway to VERIFY that; so do you want it?

I did.

Cheers,

Bill

#70 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:40 PM

Again, in advertising, you do have to be accurate--
just believed!

I'm sure there's a typo there, that Bill meant you *don't* have to be accurate -- just believed. It's a shame but unfortunately true to at least a significant extent. It's been true since the time of the Roman Empire at least; they are the ones who said, "Caveat emptor!" Let the buyer beware! (There probably are equivalent statements somewhere in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and Sumerian cuneiform.)


So, Ed you presume to moderate my unquestioned journalistic prowess!!!!! BLESS you!!!! That was an important one to screw up. My "Friend" Kenny doesn't correct me on specifics; he just makes fun of me in GENERAL terms! But then, after what nature did to him, I can understand him wanting to share the wealth. :jump: :jump:

Cheers, and THANKS, again!

Bill

#71 edcannon

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 04:52 PM

Again, in advertising, you do have to be accurate-- just believed!

I'm sure there's a typo there, that Bill meant you *don't* have to be accurate -- just believed. It's a shame but unfortunately true to at least a significant extent. It's been true since the time of the Roman Empire at least; they are the ones who said, "Caveat emptor!" Let the buyer beware! (There probably are equivalent statements somewhere in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and Sumerian cuneiform.)


So, Ed you presume to moderate my unquestioned journalistic prowess!!!!! BLESS you!!!! That was an important one to screw up. My "Friend" Kenny doesn't correct me on specifics; he just makes fun of me in GENERAL terms! But then, after what nature did to him, I can understand him wanting to share the wealth. :jump: :jump:

Cheers, and THANKS, again!

Bill

Bill, you are very welcome! I thought about a PM but wanted to emphasize your point and add the "Caveat emptor" saying. ... And just now I remembered what P.T. Barnum said, which was much less diplomatic than what someone else (Abe Lincoln?) said about how much of the time it is possible to fool how many people.

#72 BillC

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 05:17 PM

Bill, you are very welcome! I thought about a PM but wanted to emphasize your point and add the "Caveat emptor" saying. ... And just now I remembered what P.T. Barnum said, which was much less diplomatic than what someone else (Abe Lincoln?) said about how much of the time it is possible to fool how many people.


Ed:

Long too late, I have come to realize that the most precious lessons I ever learned came at the hands of those I refused to heed, because I was a young know it all and KNEW it all. Today, as I witness the softness of their wisdom in their hardness with me, I wish I could reach out to them. Yet, it is long to late. All, I can do now is try to give to others what has been given so freely to me.

Thanks again.

Bill

#73 Falcon Birder

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:24 PM

In fact , I propose a new forum rule -- NO member is allowed to use the word COLLIMATION until they have at least 100 posts to their name -- how about that ? :-)

Regards
Kenny


What is COLLIMATION?! :) :p :foreheadslap:

#74 Joad

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:45 PM

A severe digestive disorder. See your doctor.

#75 mttafire

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 11:49 PM

A severe digestive disorder. See your doctor.

I had that once...Till i got collimated. :p


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