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What is the deal with Clave eyepieces?

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#1 scout72

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:16 PM


I picked these up as part of a consignment lot with an orange tube c8 (see my beginners forum post- trying to decide whether to keep this c8 or OTA) anyway- I had no idea what these were when I bought this earlier today, and just planned on selling off the pieces i was not going to keep to offset the price of the scope- anyway- I searched the forums and have seen these things going for a lot of money, and hardly coming up for sale at all. If anyone is interested, I am going to put these up on e-bay individually as no reserve items.

I am really a beginner and don't think i am going to get to the point of appreciating these - but I am curious why they are sought after?

Thanks,

Brian

(that is a 35mm and a 45mm 2" off to the side)
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#2 scout72

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:40 PM

ps- Can anyone help identify a couple of these? The two in the middle have no markings other than size and "JAPAN" on the top surface of the bottom part. The one in the bottom left ( R 50 mm) has a T on top of an L on the reverse side.

Thanks,

Brian

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#3 David Knisely

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:54 PM

ps- Can anyone help identify a couple of these? The two in the middle have no markings other than size and "JAPAN" on the top surface of the bottom part. The one in the bottom left ( R 50 mm) has a T on top of an L on the reverse side.

Thanks,

Brian

Posted Image


The one in the top row in the middle looks like a 20mm Erfle. The one on the bottom middle looks like either a 6.6mm "SuperPlossl", a Kellner, or possibly an orthoscopic. "R" usually indicates a Ramsden eyepiece, while "Or" usually means an Abbe-type orthoscopic. Clear skies to you.

#4 WRose

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:28 AM

Hi Brian,
Welcome to Cloudy Nights eyepiece Forum.
For decades Clavé had a mystic for being one of the best planetary eyepieces manufactured. Many famous people such as Roland Christen used them as their "reference standard" through the 1980s into the 90s to test his scopes and compare other eyepieces. The Zeiss Monocentr was generally thought of as being the only "better" planetary eyepiece until the Zeiss Abbe Orthos came out. Since then the TMB-Supermono and Astro-Physics SPLs compete favorably and folks have realized the Pentax SMC Orthos are right there too. As I've posted in other threads, the Clavé and Brandon eyepieces have been around for decade and each has it's following. Both are excellent eyepieces that can be counted among the Top End eyepieces on one hand. One thing few of the others can boast is the continuous longevity Clavé enjoyed. Although the Zeiss Monocentr was manufactured off and on over a longer period, it was not continuously manufactured for 40+ years. While Brandon is close, it still has a couple years to catch up to Clavés 45 years of continuous manufacturing. (OK Brandon Fans, check your facts carefully before you start countering. :grin:)

Rather than going into a long history of Clavé eyepieces and Est. Serge R. Clavé, I'll just say that Clavé was manufactured from 1955 through 1985 by Est. S. R. Clavé. Then in 1985 Kinoptic (A.K.A. Kino) purchased the company and manufactured the eyepieces at basically the same facility in Paris until the late 1990s with some being shipped as late as 2002. The best I've been able to ascertain is last Clavé by Kinoptic eyepieces were assembled in December 1999 or early 2000. Obviously, with that long of a history they are an exceptional eyepiece. They are a unique Plossl design really only manufactured in any quantity by Zeiss and Clavé. Clavé are typically thought of as a Planetary eyepiece but the longer focal length like your 45mm are an excellent wide view DSO eyepiece. Something the Zeiss Monocentr and Brandons can't actually claim since they never manufactured an 40mm, 45mm, 55mm, 65mm or 75mm eyepiece. Note: I wrote 'wide view' not 'wide field' because when these were designed in 1954 a 50° FOV was a wide field. ;)

It's a bit hard to tell from the picture which of the 3 "Clavé Generations" or 3 "Kinoptic types" you might own but several can be ruled out. They are not early Clavé or late Kinoptic. Probably 3rd Generation or early Kinoptic from the 1980's. The 12mm you have is a rare 'Side Marked' type manufactured by Clavé in 1982. These were specially manufactured under the directions of Est. Serge R. Clavé himself. There is still some debate as to exactly why he had them made. There were only 3 focal lengths manufactured with the 'Side Markings' - an 8mm, 10mm, and 12mm. The 35mm is definitely a 3rd generation Clavé or 1st Kinoptic Type because Clavé did not manufacture the 35mm in that style until their 3rd Generation and yours does not have either the yellow/gold "Gilded" band or filter insert Kino used later on in the 90's. It is most likely a 3rd Generation Clavé.
Is your 45mm an actual 2" (51.5mm) Coulant [Barrel] or is it a 50mm Coulant? If it is an actual 2" Coulant, it is more than likely a 3rd Generation Clavé or possibly 1985-1990 Kinoptic, probably the former. If the inside of the coulant is powder coated it's a Clavé. If it has a Black Lacquer type coating inside the coulant it's a Kinoptic.

Personally I definitely would not auction them without a reserve on EBay. Auction them, fine but put a reasonable reserve on them. The 35mm and 12mm are unique and a 5mm with good optics is tough to find while the 8mm is one of the most popular eyepieces in general. Unfortunately, recent Clavé prices have been lower than say a year ago but if these are optically in good condition they're worth at least $225.00 each as a minimum. The 12mm and 35mm should bring more and probably so will the 5mm.

Anyway, you've got yourself some exceptional eyepiece many would love to own. Obviously the original owner was a Clavé aficionado who understood and appreciated quality equipment. It’s also apparent from the picture someone toll great care with these eyepieces for at least a couple decades. Good luck with your auction/sale.

#5 WRose

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:41 AM

ps- Can anyone help identify a couple of these? The two in the middle have no markings other than size and "JAPAN" on the top surface of the bottom part. The one in the bottom left ( R 50 mm) has a T on top of an L on the reverse side.

Thanks,

Brian



Brian,

There are many threads on this forum that will give you a wealth of information regarding several of these eyepieces. The Edscorp, Criterion, and U/O Optics Flat Top have all been discussed many times. Click on <Search> at the top of the screen and run a search on these from say 01/01/2006 to 06/30/2007 and I bet you'll have more reading than you care to wade through. There are two very good threads from 2007 on the AstroMart Eyepiece forum (sorry gang). One on the Criterion and one on the U/O Flat Tops.
The top middle as mentioned looks like the Meade Reseach Grade 20mm Erfle. The "R 50" looks like another Criterion. The 6.6 does look like an Kellner or Orthoscopic but I'd hesitate to say it's an Abbe design. I think it was OrthoStar that made one very similar in the 1960's.
Depending on the quality of the Criterion 16.3mm Erfle, it's possible a Gailand Galoc twin. These are hard to find, sought after eyepieces in good conditon. The U/O 10.2mm Ortho was manufactured at the same facility as teh sought after Gailand Orthos. Thihs can be identified by the "U-2034" type marking between 'Orthp' and 'University'. I can't read yours but I recognize the marking. There was a lengthy thread discussing these on AstroMart early last year and probably one here at some point.
From these pictures I'd guess you found someone who purchased "Top End" eyepieces and was happy with them for the rest of their life. Between the Clave and these it's an excellent set of eyepieces. With the exception of more modern Wide Field eyepieces, I suspect this set is as good or better than some of the sets many people own.

#6 scout72

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:52 AM

Wow- thank you for the very detailed information. And thank you for the advice as far as auctioning them, I think that is a good idea as far as setting a reserve. The 45mm is powder coated with a black insert at the bottom and is true 2" barrel. The 8mm is also 'side marked' like the 12mm, just hard to see in the picture.

What an extremely lucky find, this was on consignment in a camera store in the Bay Area California and had apparently been there for a while, and the whole package including a very good shape original orange tube C8 with fork and motor and filters, barlow, focal reducer, etc plus all of the eyepieces above was less than $500. I am really surprised it did not go quicker.

#7 scout72

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:04 AM

Thanks again Bill, I have been trying to use the search function to find out more on the identifiable eyepieces and was specifically asking on the unmarked ones (I don't want to come off as lazy in my first posts!) The one in the middle rear is marked 26.6mm, I will see if I can find anything on erfle 26.6mm similar pieces. The U/o 10.2mm ortho one is marked u-3833- and I have not been able to find that specific one mentioned yet, but I did find some general info on this lens.

My guess in general on this equipment, given the very affluent neighborhood it came from and the almost unused condition of most of the items leads me to believe somebody walked into a shop in the mid 80's and said "I want to get into amateur astronomy, give me the best equipment you have"

And after a few uses the stuff got packed up and forgotten about.

#8 WRose

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:10 AM

Wow- thank you for the very detailed information. And thank you for the advice as far as auctioning them, I think that is a good idea as far as setting a reserve. The 45mm is powder coated with a black insert at the bottom and is true 2" barrel. The 8mm is also 'side marked' like the 12mm, just hard to see in the picture.

What an extremely lucky find, this was on consignment in a camera store in the Bay Area California and had apparently been there for a while, and the whole package including a very good shape original orange tube C8 with fork and motor and filters, barlow, focal reducer, etc plus all of the eyepieces above was less than $500. I am really surprised it did not go quicker.



Someone missed the boat on that sale! The Clave eyepieces alone should bring double what you paid. If the 45mm does have a Black Ring for screwing 2" filters into the bottom of the eyepiece, it's a late Clave by Kinoptic from after 1995. Sorry, didn't see it in the picture.
Yep, if the 8mm is also side marked, you've got 2/3s of the set. I assume yours looks like the one in the middle. The 8mm on the right is a 27mm Coulant for comparison and the 12mm should look like yours.

#9 scout72

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:23 AM

Yep, the 8mm I have is the same as the one in the middle of your picture. The 5mm I have is the same as well, not marked o n the side (there wouldn't be room!), but the same construction with that 'rolled shoulder' where the black meets the silver.

The 45mm black insert is not threaded, so I am not sure what it is for - here is a picture from the bottom:

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#10 WRose

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:25 AM

Thanks again Bill, I have been trying to use the search function to find out more on the identifiable eyepieces and was specifically asking on the unmarked ones (I don't want to come off as lazy in my first posts!) The one in the middle rear is marked 26.6mm, I will see if I can find anything on erfle 26.6mm similar pieces. The U/o 10.2mm ortho one is marked u-3833- and I have not been able to find that specific one mentioned yet, but I did find some general info on this lens.

My guess in general on this equipment, given the very affluent neighborhood it came from and the almost unused condition of most of the items leads me to believe somebody walked into a shop in the mid 80's and said "I want to get into amateur astronomy, give me the best equipment you have"

And after a few uses the stuff got packed up and forgotten about.



I'd guess you're right about it not being used considering the condition they appear to be in. either that or the person took extremely good care of them. Either way the equipment was stored properly and looks to be in great shape.
Sorry I didn't explain the search function well enough. Don't be so specific. Look for "U/O Flat Top" or try "UO Flat Top" or "University Optics Flat Top". Better yet try "Gailand Ortho" or "Galoc". You can also search on "Criterion" which should bring up some stuff on that. A Criterion R30 sold awhile ago for about $60 or $70 and there was a bit of a debate about it on an FTP Group. I'll see if I can locate it and IM it to you. I suspect your R50 is similar assuming it's the same age as the other eyepeices.

You aren't going to find anything directly on the 6.6mm and 26.6mm without a name. Maybe someone else will chime in who recognizes one or both of these. Those two are going to be tough to find anything on. IMHO you'd be better off using them than selling them. They're probably excellent eyepieces but with no markings you won't get much for them. They might turn out to be really useful eyepieces for you and well worth not getting $20.00 or $25.00 each selling them.

#11 WRose

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:37 AM

That's the Field Stop. Sorry for the confusion.
You've got a 3rd Generation Clave probably manufactured in the early 1980's from the looks of it, possible the late 70's. It's an excellent eyepiece often referred to as a "Pic du Midi" Clave eyepiece ('Peak of the South' a famous observatory in Southern France). In 1954 Est. Serge R. Clave won the contract to manufacture eyepieces for the Pic du Midi Observatory when Jean Texereau was 'Director'. That's what started the Clave company.
It just occurred to me that Gene Cross was the only person I know of selling Clave equipment in the early 80's in California. He probably sold it to the original owner. Gene still works as an optical engineer at Lockheed Martin there in Calif. I believe he has a 10mm with side markings. One of the few around as the side marked 10mm is the hardest to find.

#12 scout72

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 11:14 AM

Yes, the set was from Cross Optics of Whittier CA- I just found the observing notebook that came with all of this stuff-and it had the Clave catalog from Cross. These were all purchased at the same time, in early 1983. I also identified the lenses above from the notes- the 6.6mm and 26.6mm are Cave Orthostars.

The c8 is from 1974.

#13 HandyAndy

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:41 PM

Hi,

Can you make a post when you put the eyepieces on EBAY please and will you ship to the UK?

What is the field stop size of the 40mm eyepiece?

Thanks. Andrew.

#14 HandyAndy

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:52 PM

Hi,

I have a 25mm, 8mm, and 6mm with 2x Barlow from 1985.
Clave kindly supplied new barrels with the plastic filter rings later.

Which version are my eyepieces and are they true Plossl's or symetrics?

Cheers. Andrew.

#15 WRose

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:09 PM

Hi Andrew,
From The Evolution of the Astronomical Eyepiece by C. Lord, page 30
"A separate development of the Ramsden by Gustáv Simon Plössl in 1860 led to a class of orthoscopic, achromatic, wide-field eyepieces, referred to variously as the Symmetrical, the Dial-Sight, and the Plössl.
The first Symmetrical eyepiece consisted of a matched pair of Plössl’s modified achromatic and aplanatic doublets, with their crown bi-convex elements facing inwards. Their separation was about 0.5Fe, so eye relief was generous (0.8Fe) and the apparent field about 40° at f/6. Orthoscopy and lateral colour correction were excellent down to f/4.
The true Plössl eyepiece, as manufactured by Carl Zeiss, and after W.W.II by ets Clavé and now Kinoptique, has the crown elements almost in contact (the separation can be as little as 2 thousandths of an inch), and the eye doublet has a shorter focal length than the field doublet. This widens the apparent field to 45° at f/6 at the expense of eye clearance (0.7Fe). In its best form, this design is distortion free, and has no detectable lateral colour, even at f/4. Fields are dark and ghost free, and contrast is excellent. However, unlike the Abbé Orthoscopic and its derivatives, where longitudinal spherical correction is zero on axis, the assymetric form of the Plössl leads to a zonal correction and the sharpest imagery does not occur on ax is but some 30% towards the edge of the field of view. At low to medium powers this is of no consequence, but it is noticeable at high powers (exit pupils less than 1.5mm)."

Clave (Or Clavé) eyepieces were the first mass marketed "True Plössl". Aside from Plössls built by Zeiss (Pre WWII), they are the sole "True Plössl" eyepiece generally available (other Plössls eyepieces are in fact Symmetricals, far cheaper to manufacture, but with lower performances). Clavé eyepieces are still considered as superb eyepieces and very, hard to beat for contrast, light transmission, and sharpness over a 48° AFOV in the 1.25" Coulant and 51° AFOV in the 2" Coulant. There are eyepieces with slightly better contrast or light transmission, but they will sacrifice AFOV (such as the Monocentric eyepiece).

Originally, the eyepiece was designed by Jean Texereau in 1953 when he was the head of the "Commission des Instruments" (Telescope design and construction group) of the SAF (Societe Astronomique de France, the national association of french amateurs astronomers). Basically, he contacted two firm to produce his Plössl design, one of them Clavé. Clavé produced the best eyepiece of the two firms and was chosen by Texereau to produce this eyepiece. Production started in late 1954. The focal lengths available were quite extensive: from 3mm up to 75mm. The actual "Pic du Midi" eyepieces were originally manufactured with a 50mm Coulant (Barrel) because they were originally designed to be used with the professional planetary telescopes at Pic du Midi (Peak of the South). [See the three eyepieces on the far right of the photo] The later 2" barrel eyepieces (30mm, 35mm, 40mm, 45mm, 50mm, 55mm, 60mm, 65mm, & 75mm See photo) are often called "Pic du Midi" simply because they have the same design (Lenses and Groups). Many amateurs who own long focal length Cassegrains also use these eyepieces. Clave eyepieces were availabe in two different barrel (Coulant) sizes: 27mm/50mm (French Coulant Standard) and the (now Classic) 1.25in/2in US barrel standard.

The "plastic" (?) filter ring insert you mention indicated the 'barrels' you have were manufactured by Kinoptic ( A.K.A. Kino, Kinoptique, Kinoptik) after 1994. It should accept a standard 1.25" (31.7mm) filter. Hopefully you kept the 27mm Coulants as they are sought after by many European collectors. If they marked Clavé, they are a "True Plossl".

#16 WRose

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:24 PM

Clavé Eyepiece information for 1.25" Coulant published by Kinoptik in 2000.
. . . . . . . . . . . . FL : Field ; AFOV - # of
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Stop . . . . . . Elements

Clave Plossl - 3mm : 2.7mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 4mm : 3.6mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 5mm : 4.4mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 6mm : 5.3mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 8mm : 7.1mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 10mm : 8.9mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 12mm : 10.7mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 16mm : 14.2mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 20mm : 17.8mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 25mm : 22.3mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 30mm : 26.8mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 35mm : 26.8mm ; 42 - 4


[Edit: Ooops sorry, you asked about the 2" Field Stops :rainbow:]
If your eyepieces had a 50mm Coulant they are probably from an earlier Generation/Type than the Kinoptique so this information is from a 1984 Clavé Catalog.

Clave Plossl - 30mm : 26.8mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 35mm : 31.2mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 40mm : 35.6mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 45mm : 40.1mm ; 48 - 4
Clave Plossl - 55mm : 42.2mm ; 42 - 4
Clave Plossl - 65mm : 43.5mm ; 37 - 4
Clave Plossl - 75mm : 43.5mm ; 22 - 4

#17 HandyAndy

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 03:28 AM

Hi,

My eyepieces are only marked on the top but say Clave'.

I do not have a 40mm. I was asking about the field stop as if the 40mm goes on ebay I may bid for it. With a field stop of 35.6mm it would be a good match for my Mk1 Photo/Visual Paracorr.

The problem is no one makes a true 2" 40mm Plossl at the moment. The only eyepiece I can find are RKE's with about the same field.

At the moment the longest FL eyepiece I run in the Paracorr is a 31mm Hyperion with a field stop of 37mm which is the largest worth using.

Cheers. Andrew.

#18 Rick Woods

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 08:51 AM

Clavé are typically thought of as a Planetary eyepiece but the longer focal length like your 45mm are an excellent wide view DSO eyepiece. Something the Zeiss Monocentr and Brandons can't actually claim since they never manufactured an 40mm, 45mm, 55mm, 65mm or 75mm eyepiece. Note: I wrote 'wide view' not 'wide field' because when these were designed in 1954 a 50° FOV was a wide field.

Bill,
What about the 48mm Brandon? You obviously know your stuff, so you must be aware of it - why would it not qualify?

#19 WRose

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:29 AM

Sorry Rick, you're correct. I tend to forget about the 48mm Brandon as I don't typically see them very often. To be honest I'm not sure if they're still available in the 1.25" barrel size. I've only seen those in the Vernonscope thread design and used them in a 7" Questar. As expected in a 1.25" Barrel, the 48mm FOV is narrowed.
I know Brandon makes a V48 - 2" 48mm Brandon Ocular. I've only had a chance to try one once with a Newtonian. Conditions weren't all that good so I really can't comment on the preformance. As far as I know it's the only 2" Barrel Brandon eyepiece made. That's not to say there may have been others I'm not aware of. I know at one point there was a 4mm Brandon briefly manufactured in the 60's (?) from what was reported to be Surplus Military lenses so it's very possible there are other 2" format Brandons I haven't run across.
One of the 'personal problems' I had with the 48mm Brandon was the eyepoint was annoying for me. But that's just me, others using it at the time didn't seem to mind it all.

To be completely fair, I've also seen a few ultra rare Zeiss that were made in some unusually long focal lengths with the M44 thread. We could also get off thread into the 2" Masuyama design. :grin: Overall, I think you'll find the 2" Clave eyepiece line had many more choices in focal lengths ranging over a much wider range (from 30mm to 75mm) than the Brandon line has offered.

:roflmao: FWIW, I did specify, ". . they never manufactured a 40mm, 45mm, 55mm, 65mm or 75mm eyepiece." I just didn't say that Brandon makes a 48mm. :foreheadslap: My apologies, I've been up working pretty much straight through for almost 2 days now, making way to many mistakes, and need to get some sleep. Thanks for pointing out the 48mm Brandon I forgot.

#20 Rick Woods

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 12:30 PM

Yah, the 2" 48mm is the only one I know of.

#21 bwilson

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 10:33 AM

Bill, quick question.
My claves are the 5 mm and 6mm. They are both gray powdercoated on the inside with threads on the barrels.
They both have a rolled edge where the top portion meets the barrel.

Are these the Kinoptic or earlier Clave?

#22 WRose

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 12:18 PM

Bill, quick question.
My claves are the 5 mm and 6mm. They are both gray powdercoated on the inside with threads on the barrels.
They both have a rolled edge where the top portion meets the barrel.

Are these the Kinoptic or earlier Clave?



My apologies for taking so long to reply Barbara, someone just pointed out to me that you'd posted your question and I haven't checked this thread since Rick's post. Sorry! :rainbow:

If your eyepieces have Filter Threads in the 'Barrel', then they are most likely Clave by Kinoptic from ~1995 to 1999. There is one possible exception. Gene Cross manufactured an insert for Clave eyepieces in the early 1980's that slipped into the 1.25" Coulant (Barrel) and allowed you to use 1.25" Filters. There were only a couple hundred manufactured and they are quite rare. They can usually be indentified because they extend a good 1/8" + past the end oth barrel and have at least one, vertically slot cut in them. (Most have two or three slots.) The Clave by Kinoptic manufacture eyepiece inserts are not removeable and do not have any slots. [While the Gene Cross inserts are removeable with some effort I definitely do not recommend removing one unless you know what you're doing!]
Here's a picture I made to help people identify some of the basic Clave Generations and Types. This is only a general guide as there are several variants over the ~45 years Clave eyepieces were manufactured. The 'side-marked' eyepieces discussed above are one example.

#23 Clive Gibbons

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 02:33 PM

Stumbled upon this thread late...

$500!?! for all those great oculars and a vintage C-8?!!
:jawdrop:

Lesson learned..... check the camera shops more often. :ubetcha:

#24 WRose

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 03:42 PM

You Betchum Clive! :bigshock: Lesson learned! :bow:

The 5 Clave went for $1,425.00 less expenses, etc. So figure a vintage C8, several other quality eyepieces even if they aren't labeled, and about $700 or so in your pocket for spotting it in the store. :jump:

I also found another picture I have that should help Barbara. These are all Clave, 16mm eyepieces but the 'inside' of the Coulant is the same as your 5mm & 6mm. Far left is a 1st Generation Clave (all chrome) from the late 1950's. The next two are 3rd Generation Clave with the Powder Coated interior and no filter ring. (~late 70s to 1985) The two on the far right have a Filter Ring built in and the Powder Coating which are Clave by Kinoptic (A.K.A. Kino & Kinoptique) [Mid to late 1990s] - On the eyepiece at the far right (standing up) you can see a very thin rim of the Filter Ring even though it's upright. On the eyepiece in the middle (standing up) there is not a small rim. Some of the very first Clave by Kinoptic that were manufactured with the filter thread ring had a much 'thicker' (longer) ring which extends roughly 4mm (3/16") out of the Coulant instead of the thin (~1mm) shown on this 16mm eyepiece.

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#25 bwilson

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 05:27 PM

Bill, thank you sir for the pictures! I am at TSP and just now checking back. Got to use the 5mm on the 48 inch Lowrey telescope on Tuesday. Spectacular telescope. The eyepiece gave right around 1000 power. I will check them against your pictures.


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