Seeing Amazing Things in an 80mm Scope
Posted 19 October 2003 - 12:42 AM
It was dark and clear after a front moved thru (and a little breezy), not good for planets, but fine for deep sky. It was as dark as it ever gets in my somewhat light polluted skies (good transparency). I enjoyed using the 17 and 10mm Plossls on various objects, it was great to see some of my old Messier friends again in such a small, easy scope.
I noticed Orion coming up over my neighbor's roof, ahh, my favorite is back. I had to look at M42, of course. I tried various powers, and then I put on the light pollution filter. The stars suddenly turned green, but the nubula didn't seem to change much. At least the background was darker. But it did seem like the nubula had just a little bit of the greenish cast that was obvious in the stars.... But I don't know.... maybe not. So I took the filter off and took another look. And I kept looking. The stars looked more white, but the nubula still had a greenish shade that was now more obvious when compared with the stars in the nebula. It was subtle, but unmistakable to me now.
Before this, I would have said; "Impossible in a small scope!", but now I have seen it. Has anyone else been able to duplicate this?
It's amazing what you can do in a small scope!
Posted 19 October 2003 - 07:51 AM
Posted 19 October 2003 - 11:34 AM
Have now got a Skywatcher 80mm f5 en route...Can't wait!
Posted 19 October 2003 - 11:56 AM
Posted 20 October 2003 - 07:56 PM
Posted 20 October 2003 - 10:28 PM
Posted 20 October 2003 - 10:31 PM
still available it seems
I would buy it but short of cash at the moment
Posted 20 October 2003 - 10:59 PM
Posted 20 October 2003 - 11:39 PM
Posted 20 October 2003 - 11:42 PM
I would buy it but short of cash at the moment
So you have no special reason why you would buy this scope?
Posted 21 October 2003 - 12:04 AM
Posted 21 October 2003 - 06:55 PM
Posted 21 October 2003 - 07:21 PM
It won't show you everything the 8" Dob will, but some objects will be prettier in the refractor. It'll have more than double the light-gathering ability of the 60mm and that's very noticeable. It'll also handle magnification MUCH better than the 60mm did unless it was as good a quality unit.
I dunno what mount I'd choose for it but I'll give you a hint: Look at Orion's website for a similar telescope (if they still make one - I have an Orion Observer 80mm and it's the Chinese version of that one). Then see what mount it comes on and go one notch bigger!
Posted 21 October 2003 - 08:51 PM
What do you want to see with your small refractor yet to be discovered? I have a 70mm Tele Vue Ranger. It is my small, patio scope, and I also take it out for deep-sky big fuzzies: M31, M33, Lagoon, Trifid, Orion Nebula, Dumbbell, the Double Cluster, Pleadies, etc. I don't much go above 100x with it, I have a 5" Mak for that (by Orion). A Vixen sourced product (Japanese) is going to have much better fit and finish than a Chinese product, and Vixen has quality-control as well. I like to use my Ranger as a variable-power monocular. Are you looking for a better planetary scope, or higher power?
Posted 21 October 2003 - 09:36 PM
Mainly looking for something that is easy to grab and head outside with, look at the planets, doubles, M57...that kind of thing. With the crazy weather and the effort to get the 8" outside and cooled, it might be raining again! I'm a big guy (6'3") and don't enjoy moving that thing unless I know it is going to stay clear for a while. I also believe that the view is probably different...crisper...with a good refractor (I could be wrong, I've never looked through a good refractor).
I feel I have 2 choices...a small refractor in the 80-102 (shoot, even a 5" if possible) range or a big pair of binocs like the Oberwerk 11 or 15x70's or possibly 20x80's. The refractor allows more options magnification-wise, and if it is exceptionally clear, I would hope you could push it past 200x easily.
Hope that answered the question...it was nice for me to actually put it down in writing. Something Big enough aperture-wise and small enough size-wise to be highly useable. I can't afford an APO anytime soon. I'm also torn between a short tube for the wide FOV (I like DSOs) and the longer f/ratio for the more detailed "up close and personal view" of the planets and moon. I sure would like to look through an Orion 80ED!
I like your description of a variable-powered monocular! That is a great way to describe it. I am forever popping outside with my little binocs to look at M31 or Vega or whatever I can look at, just to look at it.
Posted 21 October 2003 - 09:56 PM
Warpd's Ranger is pretty cool. He can find some small, faint objects in it and the clarity is awesome. Setup takes about two minutes. He is kicked back and ready for sundown before I even get my tripod set up. (He gloats too!) It has very little false color due to the size. I am considering getting a Ranger or Pronto to piggy back and/or use as a quick look scope. I sympathize on the trouble of dragging a big scope out in iffy conditions. I bounced my 10" SCT off my leg the other night setting up and have a heck of a bruise and we only got three hours good viewing out of it. GRRR!
Posted 22 October 2003 - 06:26 PM
Posted 22 October 2003 - 07:55 PM
You'll probably have difficulty pushing an achromat past 200x, especially a short one. The Ranger has some false color, but takes magnification very well. I usually top out around 120x if only because the image gets dim (except on the moon) much beyond that. A longer achro will usually have less false color, but the field of view will be less (don't you hate those trade-offs?). I think the largest object you can see in a small scope (or just about any scope) would be the North American Nebula. It's several degrees across. The Andromeda Galaxy is about 3 degrees wide. The Veil Nebula is about 3 degrees in diameter, too. If you want to squeeze these into one field of view, you'll need low power and a wide-field eyepiece. Magnification equals scope f.l. divided by eyepiece f.l. True field of view equals apparent field divided by magnification. With a 24mm Panoptic (which I've only borrowed) at 68 degrees, the Ranger gives 20 power (480/24=20) and a field of view of just over 3 degrees. The Pronto (a Ranger with a 2" focuser) can give you (40mm/70 degree eyepiece) 12x and over 5 degrees of field. If I may suggest, to help you narrow things down, figure out how large the biggest thing you want to see is, and calculate what magnification/field of view will be required to see it. This will put an upper limit to the focal length of the scope you want. Keeping in mind that it is hard to push any achro over about 150x, this may be the most efficient way to narrow your choices. Now if you get a small APO, you CAN push the power pretty high, often to 75x per inch or more.
I have the small 127mm Mak. But it is not a grab-and-go scope because it takes too long to cool down. Small refractors cool quickly. Even small Newtonians take a while to cool off, but less time than their larger brethren.
Posted 22 October 2003 - 08:24 PM
Great post and lots to think about. My first thought to myself is that I'm not trying to replace my 8" Dob. I got it so I could go deep and when the seeing is good, it does just that. Second thought is that I do like the big picture, as long as I can see it! I want to maximize the view for the object under consideration. The Dob requires planning and execution and does not lend itself to spur of the moment viewing (between the rain clouds...thank goodness for binoculars, but they are limited). A small refractor will allow me to be more spontaneous about viewing and in that situation I will not be out studying something, I will be out just for the enjoyment of looking or trying to find something new.
You've given me quite a bit to think about and I sincerely appreciate it. I will be re-reading this post several times and trying to answer those questions you pose.
Posted 23 October 2003 - 07:27 PM
Between the extreme ease of setup and use, and the good views, I find that this is one good way to bring the fun back! I still like my 127 Mak, but for different reasons. Man, this is a great way to learn the sky and/or just grab casual views! Yea, I'm jazzed..... I'm having fun.....
Posted 23 October 2003 - 08:13 PM
I'd really like to look through the new Orion 80mm ED too! It may prove to be a Ranger/Pronto killer. I assume you've read the reviews?
Posted 23 October 2003 - 08:26 PM
Warpd, hopefully Tom T. will give us his honest assessment of the scope (especially compared to a TV102!)
Clear skies! Tom
Posted 23 October 2003 - 09:40 PM
Posted 23 October 2003 - 09:42 PM
Posted 23 October 2003 - 09:50 PM