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Which refractor should I buy?

Started by Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_* , Nov 06 2003 06:25 PM
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143 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 06:25 PM

Greetings from England. Hello all you guys over the other side of the Atlantic. I've been browsing your forum and you all seem to know what you're talking about. I have just sold my Celestron C102HD refractor because I observe from a small balcony and it was just too long. I replaced it with a cheaper Konus short tube reflector which is frankly awful. Optically it's okay but the mount is terrible and at high magnifications the images are nowhere near as good as the Celestron was. I am now regretting selling the Celestron and realise how much I like refractors. I've looked through several larger reflectors and although they are brighter they just don't seem to be as crisp and 'alive' as the refractor - when I observed through the Celestron refractor, even though I was contorted against the kitchen door I felt like I was really experiencing Jupiter or Saturn. Maybe its because you look into the end of the scope rather than halfway up I don't know. Anyway, enough waffling, back to the point. If any of you experts could answer me some questions I would be very grateful.

1. Am I just imagining the image superiority through my relatively cheap refractor or am I right?

2. How do short tube refractors (that would fit comfortably on my balcony) compare to the C102HD (1000mm) with planetary viewing?

3. Are Tele Vue scopes really that good and worth the money, even at high magnification?

4. Would I be better off going for a Mak (I've never looked through one)?

5. If you had £400 - £600 ($600 - $900) to spend on a planetary scope with mount etc. included, size no object what would you buy? Then take into account compactness, which then?

I live in a heavily light-polluted city surrounded by buildings with generally poor seeing (and Jupiter is STILL beautiful!)

Any advice gratefully received.

Phil D :bow:

#2 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 06:45 PM

You're not imagining it, and you are right.

Celestron CR-150 or the Meade LXD55/AR-6. These are not compact scopes. They are some of the largest mass produced popular low-dollar scopes made as far as refractors go.

My AR-6 measures 68" OAL.

How wide is your balcony in meters? If it is really narrow and you're close to the railing, you'll almost have to have something up on a mount on a tripod to get over the railing so that rules out a Dob and many Newts.

You might want to look at some of the Orion short tubes if you're pressed for space, but the color correction won't be there like it will on a longer focal length OTA. On planetary viewing you may find the color objectionable.

I don't know what your prices are like in the UK, but I hear they are higher than here.

#3 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 07:05 PM

Schultze

My balcony is just over 1 metre deep. The C102HD fitted okay, with the tube sticking out over the railing, but getting to the eyepiece comfortably was a problem. However I've decided I can put up with that if that's what it takes. I think a 150mm scope would be too long, which is why I was thinking of a Mak or short tube refractor, but if they won't give me the 'magic' views I was getting with the C102HD I'm willing to suffer the contortions at the eyepiece. Have you used a C102HD? How do you rate it if so? Yes I think telescopes are cheaper in the US than here. Examples from UK: Celestron C6-R (was C150) refractor £750 ($1200), Meade LXD55 6" £1300 ($2000) :(

Phil

#4 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 07:18 PM

No, I haven't used that scope, but I have a 90mm Meade that gives decent planetary views, but lacks in DSO ability.

$2000 US for an LXD55 AR-6 in the UK? They're out of their minds. It's barely worth the $1000 they charge in the States.

I'm afraid I don't have experience with any other type of telescope. Everything I have or have had in the past has been a refractor. Someone here will help you out with the Mak questions.

Like I said earlier though, the color correction is not going to be very good on a short tube achro. You might want to look into a short tube APO in a small aparture, but it's probably more than you want to spend. Especially at UK prices.

#5 Blair

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 07:55 PM

Orion's Maks, especially, the 127mm version performs very well on the planets and the Moon. Considering your light pollution a 127mm Mak may be a good choice for you. The cool down time will be greater for the 127mm Mak than the 102mm refractor but considering your space limitation the Mak looks like your better choice. I found I was more into rich field viewing so I sold mine and now own an Orion 100mm f/6 scope and that scope would probably not fit your requirements as the Mak because of the color. I do not use the RFT for planets I have another scope for that (a 90mm f/11.4 scope). The 127mm Mak performed better on Jupiter than the 90mm refractor when the air was still enough where I could use the full power capability of the Mak. The one I had took power very well and rivaled an APO refractor in lack of color. I'm sure there are those that own them right now that can give you more information. Try posting this in the CAT forum. Hope this helps.

#6 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 08:15 PM

PhilD,
sounds like you need a friend in the states to buy your scope then ship it to you, just a thought, always another way to skin the cat if you know what i mean. By the way I like the kittys in the pic, I have 4 myself. You wouldnt be disappointed with a Mak either, im using a Meade 7" Mak and its as close in views to a refractor as it gets. Dave

#7 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 08:37 PM

Thanks Blair, Dave & Schultze for the advice. The Orion 127 Mak sounds like a good compromise although my heart lusts for a refractor. How much would it cost to ship a scope to England? The Orion 127 Mak goes for around £450 ($700) over here, with EQ mount & tripod etc. Dave, the cats are Tonkinese (half Siamese, half Burmese) and are the other passion in my life.

Thanks again guys

Phil :bow:

#8 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 08:42 PM

Yea,
one of mine is Burmese too and she is a REAL sweety! Loves to have her tummy rubbed. You wont go wrong with the Mak or a refractor, the Mak however will never suffer from chromatic abberations, whice makes it an awful good performer at hi mags. Dave

#9 Blair

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 08:56 PM

A new 127mm on the Astroview equatorial runs $569 + $10 oversize fee + shipping and handling for delivery here in the states. Do not know how much it would cost to ship to England. There may be an import tax to deal with. I know when we buy telescopes from Canada there is an import tax and a fee for the filling out of the paperwork. So, I do not buy from Canada anymore. $700 sounds like a lot but the scope is well built and should last for years.

#10 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 09:01 PM

Dave

Don't Maks need collimating regularly and isn't it tricky? I've collimated reflectors before - is it pretty much the same? It's the Burmese in our Tonks that give them their lovely nature - like you say tummy rubbing all day if you're home - they still cry like Siamese though! Where in the Midwest are you? I have happy memories of Ohio and strange memories of Kansas (you'll have to excuse me if these places I visited are not classed as 'Midwest'. Midwest in England means 20 miles out of London!)

Phil

#11 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 09:08 PM

Blair

Yeah sturdiness is one of my concerns - the C102HD was built like a tank and will probably last forever. The new scope will not be transported much once I receive it (although if it's lightweight I might drive further afield more often). How stable are the EQ mounts & tripods they come on?

Phil

#12 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 09:29 PM

Dave

Off to get some sleep now after a quick look at M42 (it's 2.30am here). Here's a bigger picture of my babies - sorry everyone else who doesn't love cats, taking up valuable astronomy space with animal pics. I'll check in again tomorrow night and I'll let you know what I buy.

Thanks again everyone

Phil

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#13 Blair

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 09:36 PM

The Astroview mount handled the scope very well for me and it was very stable. I felt the mount would have lasted for years as well. The OTA by itself weighs only about 9 pounds. But being Chinese made, your chance of getting a lemon is possible but Orion, here in the States, is top in customer support and they really go out their way to make you happy. I can't speak for them in England.

#14 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 09:39 PM

I love cats. As long as they belong to someone else who loves them too. Yours are very beautiful, but cats are too sneaky for me.

I'd rather have a dog I can trust.

Anyhow, I hope you like the Mak. I've never owned one, but I hear good things about them. I was watching your earlier posts, I thought, man he's up late for not being outside.
Sounds like you need a bigger balcony.

G'night.

#15 Ron B[ee]

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 10:37 PM

Hello there Phil,

I used to have a C102-HD as well; indeed, it wasn't a very short refractor ;-). I would caution against 120mm f/5 and 150mm f/5 ST for planets. Of hand, I'd say go for one of those f/6 4" APO :cool:, but ...

For a "premium balcony seat" where space is limited, I would look into the new Orion 80ED. However, its aperture is a wee bit small for planets. So if cooldown time isn't an issue, try the Orion 127mm MCT a few people is suggesting. Better yet, try one of the snubby 6" MCT such as those from Intes or Intes Micro; one of this may work nicely for your situation.

Ron B[ee]

#16 jrcrilly

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 10:47 PM

I agree - if you must make a compromise to get a shorter tube a Mak (or an SCT) would give up less performance than a very fast achromat.

I have NEVER seen anyone make such a suggestion in a refractors group before, though. You guys are endangering your memberships in the TV Yahoo group... :roflmao:

#17 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 12:07 AM

I'm sorry to say I have no experiance with telescopes yet... but I have spent many years as a cat owner! Though I probably prefer dogs in genreal, I still like cats and they are much easier to care for.

Here is my russian blue:
Posted Image

I'm sorry for the poor image quality; I had to use an isight (apple's webcam) and there is no easy way to save pictures from it. Because of the sneaky process I had to use obtain the image and alter it (photoshop wouldn't accept it) I accidently screwed it up when I converted it to under 60k. Not wanting to go through this process again I forwent the re-editing of the picture and decided to write this long winded apology instead ;)

#18 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 02:36 AM

Phil

Take a look at the Stellarvue line of scopes. The Achro ones are very well color corrected. I have an AT1010 and like it a lot (80mm f6) he also has a 102mm f6.9 and several APO style scopes.

http://www.stellarvue.com/

Blessings
Keith

#19 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 03:39 AM

I'm from Canada, thank you very much Blair, and shipping isn't the same everywhere. Scopes are more expensive in the USA. Don't buy from Canada anymore?? Not very nice.

Phil, try a Sky-Watcher (Pacific Instruments) if you still want (lust) a refractor; SW is pretty much the same as the Celestron or Orion refractor, with better mounts available, and generally of more consistent quality than many other name brands. Basically, the optics are all manufactured by Synta in China, and assembled by the individual company. Your short tube is probably a fast f/5, which explains your less than adequate views, Phil. You really need an Apo for a short tube, or really dark skies..which doesn't seem ideal in your situation.

The 127mm Mak is an excellent choice, I must agree. Optically, Mak's are superb for planetary observing with a long focal ratio. The great thing is the small, portable package. Orion makes a decent affordable Mak. Best of luck to you Phil.

Michael

#20 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 07:06 AM

Thanks to all for taking the time to help me out. Apologies for the feline-related sidetrack. I've checked out the Stellarvue website and they look nice but they're only available in the US and Canada - I've emailed them to see whether it would be possible to get one here in the UK. I'm dissapointed in your lack of loyalty to your refractors! The general opinion seems to be that a Mak would be best for me, so I guess I chose the wrong forum in the first place! Seriously though thanks everyone and I'll let you know how things work out.

Phil :bow:

#21 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 08:18 AM

Boy,
you can sure tell its turning winter around here from the interesting posts lately!
PhilD, nice kittys...Schultz dont know what he is talking about when he says sneaky, ive seen dogs bite people for no reason at all, thats sneaky! Cats dont do that unless they are cornered, ive been mauled by 2 dogs( for no reason), so I think they are all good for the BBQ pit period myself. Cats dont bark all nite keeping up the neighbors either, or crap all over my yard like my neighbors dogs do, sorry Schultz yer wrong, Dogs are the sneaky ones. Actually its careless, useless, dumb, pet owners that are to blame tho not the mutts err........... I mean dogs.
PhilD,
Im located in NW Indiana, cornbelt USA...........we do like refractors BUT a good short tube refractor will be an APO and you dont want to spend that much so it wasnt even mentioned as a choice. If money was no object that would be on the top of the list tho. And no, Maks dont usually need collimating if ever. If one did id send it in before screwing with it. If you always store your scope inside than cooldowns would be a concern with a Mak, I keep mine in a unheated area because of that fact. Dave

#22 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 08:37 AM

You're right. There are many irresponsible dog owners around. Fortunately, I'm not one of them and my neighbors aren't either.

I'm dissapointed in your lack of loyalty to your refractors! The general opinion seems to be that a Mak would be best for me, so I guess I chose the wrong forum in the first place!


Phil, you aren't in the wrong forum, you're in the wrong flat. Seriously, if you are cramped for room and cash, a Mak might be the only way to go if you want to comfortably enjoy the hobby.

#23 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 08:53 AM

Schultz,
glad to hear that, you should meet my neighbors (renters, niff said!) Im sure you would feel differently about a lot of things after living beside them for a yr. Dave

#24 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 09:01 AM

In other places that I've lived, dogs that have belonged to irresponsible pet owners have turned up missing.

#25 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 09:09 AM

I have 4 cats that get to go outside so I cant get any ideas like that, sorta an eye for an eye neighborhood here. I would like to see some neighbors disappear tho.........Naa, quit thinking like that Dave!
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