57 replies to this topic

[jcely7]

Hey everybody, i am fishing for any information i can get about the Warner & Swasey Co that made large refracting telescopes a while ago. I'm an astrophysics major at the university of minnesota and they have a 10.5 inch refractor on the roof of the physics building that was abandoned for long enough to lose all of their docmentation. I'm trying to restore it a bit and gather information, hopefully on the university's scope in particular but i would take anything.

I know this kind of instrument really is a bit out of the scope (no pun intended) of amateur astronomy, but hopefully someone will know something.

thanx
Justin

[Dan /schechter]

Dear Justin,

A group that can help you is the Antique Telescope Society. Send your request for information regarding the Warner & Swasey telescope to Walter Breyer at whbreyer@alltel.net

He`ll forward your request for information to the whole group and they will be able to help you.

Take care,

Dan

[jcely7]

Thanks dan, i'll go ahead and send him an email

[Bonco]

Warner and Swasey built mounts, not telescopes. They certainly were foremost in building quality equitorial mounts for large refractors particularly Clarks around the US. Their classic style is very recognizable. Good luck.
Bill

[pbealo]

Justin,

Warner and Swasey built the mounts for many large refractors of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Most, but not all, of their telescopes used Brashear optics.

Brashear and Clark were the primary manufacturers of telescope optics in the early 20th century USA. These are historic instruments and ouhgt to be conserved in some manner (IMHO). If cleaned up, it should be a very fine instrument. Don't just spray paint, and be very gentle with the lens. If its a Brashear, it is "flint forward", and will look "backwards" comopared to most modern achromats.

Contact me off-line if you'd like to chat.

[Dan /schechter]

Dear Bill,

Warne & Swasey did build telescopes. Google Warner & Swasey telescope and you`ll find some. As Peter said, most of their telescopes and binoculars had Brashear optics in them, but they made the tubes. Further research can tell if they ever made the optics.

Take care,

Dan

[Dan /schechter]

Dear Justin,

I thoroughly agree with Peter. Do not try to clean or restore this telescope if you do not confidently know what
you are doing. There must be someone form the Antique Telescpoe Society that lives close enough to you to help you. If not, hire a professional. I can give you a couple of names if you desire.

Take care,

Dan

[jcely7]

Wow, i certainly didn't expect such quick responses. Thank you for all your help guys.

The telescope "restoration" project was started a few years ago by some then grad students after a period of roughly 50 years where the whole dome was used as storage space, and a friend and I are going to be picking up where they left off. I do know, however that no one has touched the objective-although i would like to collimate it someday as i doubt that has been done in over 50 years. It's in working order, and a modern drive motor has been added to RA, but we know so little about the history of this particular scope and the instruments associated with it that we are dying for information. We even have a spare objective (we believe) for some reason and what appears to be a 6" telescope assembly (minus the objective) designed to be able to mount in place of the 10.5". There are instruments lying around and we can't figure out what they were even used for.

[Dan /schechter]

Dear Justin,

I have heard some outlandish and horrible stories of graduate students deciding to restore and collimate etc a old scope. So again, proceed slowly with positive knowledge of what you are doing. Your W&S refractor is irreplacable and a physical repository of history.

Take care,

Dan

[jcely7]

Thank you for the words of caution Dan. We will proceed as slowly as possible, and perhaps i'll forego the collimation for a while.

Justin

[pbealo]

Justin,

Collimation is really non-invasive (adjust push-pull screws around lens cell only), so I wouldn't sweat that one. Its disassembling the lens that's touchy. Also, wrt the RA drive: what kind of drive does the scope have now, weight driven mechanical or motor driven?? If you are taking off a motor drive, I'd advise taking lots of pictures and then storing what you took off safely so that someone else could reverse the proceedure. If its a weight driven drive, I'd be HAPPY to pay the shipping to get it to me and clean up your observatory...Please, don't thank me. :>) :>)

How about some pictures?? You know we're all drooling?!?!

[clintwhitman]

Hi Justin,
Clint here in CA We would all love to see some photos of the scope in it current condition. Most of us on this group restore telescopes and some have of us have work on scopes that range back to the 1900s. One thing about telescopes, If a scope is a 3" F15 or a 15" f15 they are basicly the same in function and operation just heavier. What town are you in? As Dan Said there may be someone there that would love to give a hand and advise. Most Astronimers love to be of service to education. So post some pics so we can see your progress!!
Good Job and good luck.
(aveman

[Ken Launie]

Hi Justin,

Your refractor was made in 1896, and has a Brashear objective, according to some notes I have. Since you also have what seems to be an extra full aperture objective, please check to see if it is a single-element one that can mount over the existing objective, in which case it's a photographic corrector. Those change the color correction to be more favorable for the early blue-sensitive emulsions. If it's a complete doublet that seems to replace the one currently installed, it is also likely a photographic lens, just one that needs to be installed in place of the visual one. And finally, it's also possible that you have an objective prism for spectroscopy. I'd love to hear more, and see pictures of that in addition to the scope (adding my voice to the chorus looking for a "Kodak Moment").

Clint is right that the basic theory is similar to smaller scopes, but I must warn you that many people used to working on small scopes likely have NO IDEA how much heavier these scopes are, and that you really shouldn't disassemble anything without taking elaborate precautions to support and brace everything first. There have been cases where suddenly unbalanced scopes swung amazingly quickly around, injuring people (and perhaps even worse, the instrument). Harvard's 15" Merz and Mahler "Great Refractor" suffered such a fate, and the last six feet of the tube had to be replaced.

Warner and Swasey did indeed make their own optics later, in the twentieth century, and their observatory-class instruments were well engineered. It's most likely that proper lubrication and careful balancing will solve most of the problems, assuming that previous tinkerers haven't made ill-conceived changes. Warner and Swasey was a big machine tool company first and foremost, and the founders were mechanical engineers who were interested enough in astronomy to design and build their own scope (a 9" with Clark optics). It was done well enough that they decided to sell some more of them, and within just a few years they were building the mount for the Lick Observatory 36-inch refractor among others.

The most important thing to do is to look at the lens with a bright light, to see if there's any evidence of moisture or fungus between the elements. If it's just dusty, then there's no critical need to disassemble it right away.

Have fun with it!
--Ken Launie, ATS President

[Fred Ley]

Hello Justin,

You may be able to find some information at this Smithsonian site. If not, perhaps they may have information that has not yet been uploaded to their site.

-Fred

http://www.sil.si.ed...2-drilldown.cfm

[jcely7]

Hey you guys have all been really helpful- ill keep you all updated as things continue, but keep in mind im still a full time student so things may be a bit slow

Anyway, here are some pictures of the scope and of some stuff sitting around beneath it.

[Falcon-]

Wow, that is amazing piece of equipment - ABSOLUTELY worth the effort of preserving! Good luck in your efforts!

[Dan /schechter]

Wow!!! Justin. I am happy you have access to such a fine instrument. I am also happy that Ken has joined in on the discussion. He knows more about these telescopes and how to care for them than all of us combined. Listen carefully to his advice.

Dan

[Ham Radio]

Hi Justin, I live in Mn and was wondering which of the U of M you are at? If its close enough I might be able to find time to help if you need it.

[pbealo]

Nice images!! The bottom one seems to be of a Gaertner (a guess here)measuring engine that was used to measure the locations of stars on a glass negative.

the one above that seems to be a drum chronometer, used to time events by someone at the eyepiece. BTW: Jon Slaton http://www.justfurfu...y_main_page.htm has a nice paper (unpublished) he's working on about cleaning and renovating these chronometers.

Above that shows what appears to be a plate camera.

Neat stuff all around. Keep asking questions, go slow, inventory and photograph what you have, don't let any of it go (unless to me!).

[Telescopeman54]

That is the same mount that we had at Hiram College in Hiram, Ohio. We had a 9-1/2" Brashear on that one. We used it extensively for variable star work. I am quite familiar with it. More photos will help, but, it appears that most of the original drive is in place and that an electric "clocl" motor was installed.

This is indeed an piecs of history. You should present this as an item of interest to the Board of Directors. It could be a very useful to generate donations from alumni by having it open to the public on clear nights.

I could be wrong, but, it appears to me that there was a disassembled guide scope on the bench.

The most important thing has already been noted; DON'T MESS WITH IT! The only thing this probably needs is a little lubrication and some tuning. If the lens is clean LEAVE IT ALONE! To many have been ruined by inexperienced students with good intentions.

If you need help there are plenty of us here that will be most willing to assist you. If you need replacement parts many of us can recreate them for you. Of course, the best thing is for those of us with EXPERIENCE to be there first hand to assist you.

We are looking forward to hearing more and seeing more of this fantastic project.

CS

Steve

[chasing photons]

I stumbled upon this CN thread while looking for recent information concerning the Warner & Swasey 10.5 inch Brashear objective refractor in the Tate Observatory on the roof of the physics building at the University of Minnesota.  Although I have only managed to find very limited information, it appears that the telescope was indeed refurbished sometime in the recent past and it is back in service.  I assumed I would find an internet presence documenting the restoration process, but so far I have found next to nothing.
 
During the 1978 – 1982 time period, I was a student at the University of Minnesota Institute of Technology in Minneapolis.  Although I was not an astronomy/astrophysics major, I had the opportunity to see the refractor on several occasions.  One time was during the solar eclipse of February 26, 1979 when I took some photographs of the telescope which I have scanned and presented here.  Please pardon the quality of the images.

 

If anyone has additional information on the restoration of this telescope I would certainly appreciate learning more.  Below is an article from the university newspaper from 2012 with a brief history of the telescope and its current role in public viewing nights at the observatory.

 

http://www.mndaily.c...ay-night-lights

[chasing photons]

02/26/1979

 

[chasing photons]

02/26/1979

 

[chasing photons]

02/26/1979

 

[chasing photons]

02/26/1979