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Warner & Swasey Co refractor

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#26 chasing photons

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 08:28 PM

02/26/1979  Dome of Tate Observatory on roof of physics building U of M

 

See posts on previous page for images of telescope from 1979.

 

UofM_0005_1.jpg


Edited by chasing photons, 08 October 2014 - 08:09 AM.


#27 oldscope

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:25 PM

Hi Todd,

Here's some information that I have, mostly courtesy of Tom Vonderharr:

Students Astronomical Observatory, Tate Laboratory, University of Minnesota – Twin Cities

10-1/2 inch Brashear/W & S, 1896. Photo-Visual system with removable front visual and photographic elements. A plate camera is extant. Still used for public nights. It is maintained by Grad students. The telescope was originally housed in a stand-alone observatory, but was moved atop Tate Lab ca. 1928-1931.
The sum of $10,000 was appropriated for the purchase of a telescope and the construction of an observatory. This much needed improvement has been made. The telescope, with accompanying apparatus, was procured at a cost of $7,709, and the construction of the observatory and the placing of the telescope cost the additional sum of $2,291.
The following bids were received for the erection of an astronomical observatory:
Pike & Cook .................................................. .$ 1887.00
De Lancey & Cook ............................................. .$ 1865.00
H. Downs & Son .............................................. .$ 1550.00
Trainor Brothers .............................................. . $ 1779.00
F. G. McMillan ................................................ . $ 2150.00
H. Downs & Sons' bid being the lowest, the contract was awarded to them.
-- Ninth Biennial Report of the Board of Regents of the University of Minnesota to the Governor

The students astronomical observatory contains a ten and one-half inch combined, visual, photographic and spectroscopic refracting telescope, constructed by Warner Swasey and Brashear; a photographic measuring machine by Repsold; a spectrometer by Brashear; a three-inch transit circle and chronograph by Fauth; a Howard Astronomical clock. - THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CATALOGUE FOR THE YEAR 1899-1900

“… the scope still is in use only as a public outreach telescope on Friday nights on a regular basis, with only sparse use outside of that …

The 2005 work would have been what John Martin did in refurbishing it….

To my knowledge there is no official name for the observatory, and if there is it is no longer in use. We only refer to it as the 10”.

The lens probably could use a cleaning, …

In terms of optical performance, it can be hard to say, as during typical usage the seeing conditions are quite awful (dome not opened early enough to allow temperature equalization, large number of people in the dome, etc).”
“The only marking I saw [on the cell] was a "V". I also looked at the second primary which was similarly marked as a "P" and I believe these to stand for "visual" and "photographic", giving some physical evidence as to which is which. We also appear to have two 6" lenses and what may be an adapter to mount them to the 10" aperture.

Several of the eyepieces in the dome also appear to be made of brass and I surmise they may be originals”
 

Bart

 

 

I stumbled upon this CN thread while looking for recent information concerning the Warner & Swasey 10.5 inch Brashear objective refractor in the Tate Observatory on the roof of the physics building at the University of Minnesota.  Although I have only managed to find very limited information, it appears that the telescope was indeed refurbished sometime in the recent past and it is back in service.  I assumed I would find an internet presence documenting the restoration process, but so far I have found next to nothing.
 
During the 1978 – 1982 time period, I was a student at the University of Minnesota Institute of Technology in Minneapolis.  Although I was not an astronomy/astrophysics major, I had the opportunity to see the refractor on several occasions.  One time was during the solar eclipse of February 26, 1979 when I took some photographs of the telescope which I have scanned and presented here.  Please pardon the quality of the images.

 

If anyone has additional information on the restoration of this telescope I would certainly appreciate learning more.  Below is an article from the university newspaper from 2012 with a brief history of the telescope and its current role in public viewing nights at the observatory.

 

http://www.mndaily.c...ay-night-lights



#28 chasing photons

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 05:50 PM

 

Hi Todd,

Here's some information that I have, mostly courtesy of Tom Vonderharr:

Students Astronomical Observatory, Tate Laboratory, University of Minnesota – Twin Cities

10-1/2 inch Brashear/W & S, 1896. Photo-Visual system with removable front visual and photographic elements. A plate camera is extant. Still used for public nights. It is maintained by Grad students. The telescope was originally housed in a stand-alone observatory, but was moved atop Tate Lab ca. 1928-1931.
The sum of $10,000 was appropriated for the purchase of a telescope and the construction of an observatory. This much needed improvement has been made. The telescope, with accompanying apparatus, was procured at a cost of $7,709, and the construction of the observatory and the placing of the telescope cost the additional sum of $2,291.
The following bids were received for the erection of an astronomical observatory:
Pike & Cook .................................................. .$ 1887.00
De Lancey & Cook ............................................. .$ 1865.00
H. Downs & Son .............................................. .$ 1550.00
Trainor Brothers .............................................. . $ 1779.00
F. G. McMillan ................................................ . $ 2150.00
H. Downs & Sons' bid being the lowest, the contract was awarded to them.
-- Ninth Biennial Report of the Board of Regents of the University of Minnesota to the Governor

The students astronomical observatory contains a ten and one-half inch combined, visual, photographic and spectroscopic refracting telescope, constructed by Warner Swasey and Brashear; a photographic measuring machine by Repsold; a spectrometer by Brashear; a three-inch transit circle and chronograph by Fauth; a Howard Astronomical clock. - THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CATALOGUE FOR THE YEAR 1899-1900

“… the scope still is in use only as a public outreach telescope on Friday nights on a regular basis, with only sparse use outside of that …

The 2005 work would have been what John Martin did in refurbishing it….

To my knowledge there is no official name for the observatory, and if there is it is no longer in use. We only refer to it as the 10”.

The lens probably could use a cleaning, …

In terms of optical performance, it can be hard to say, as during typical usage the seeing conditions are quite awful (dome not opened early enough to allow temperature equalization, large number of people in the dome, etc).”
“The only marking I saw [on the cell] was a "V". I also looked at the second primary which was similarly marked as a "P" and I believe these to stand for "visual" and "photographic", giving some physical evidence as to which is which. We also appear to have two 6" lenses and what may be an adapter to mount them to the 10" aperture.

Several of the eyepieces in the dome also appear to be made of brass and I surmise they may be originals”
 

Bart

 

 

I stumbled upon this CN thread while looking for recent information concerning the Warner & Swasey 10.5 inch Brashear objective refractor in the Tate Observatory on the roof of the physics building at the University of Minnesota.  Although I have only managed to find very limited information, it appears that the telescope was indeed refurbished sometime in the recent past and it is back in service.  I assumed I would find an internet presence documenting the restoration process, but so far I have found next to nothing.
 
During the 1978 – 1982 time period, I was a student at the University of Minnesota Institute of Technology in Minneapolis.  Although I was not an astronomy/astrophysics major, I had the opportunity to see the refractor on several occasions.  One time was during the solar eclipse of February 26, 1979 when I took some photographs of the telescope which I have scanned and presented here.  Please pardon the quality of the images.

 

If anyone has additional information on the restoration of this telescope I would certainly appreciate learning more.  Below is an article from the university newspaper from 2012 with a brief history of the telescope and its current role in public viewing nights at the observatory.

 

http://www.mndaily.c...ay-night-lights

 

 

 

Hi Bart,

 

Wow!  I was pleasantly surprised to see your post today!  I almost skipped past it, but the thread title jogged my memory.  This is some very interesting information concerning the telescope and its history.  It is difficult to comprehend the costs involved for the telescope and observatory over a century ago.

 

I remember seeing the telescope on another occasion in the fall of 1979.  I was taking the Introductory Astronomy course as one of my electives.  I still have the lab book for the course.  If I remember correctly, one of the lab classes met in the evening so we could use the telescope, but it was cloudy that night.  The teaching assistant did take us into the observatory to see the telescope.

 

I also remember walking on the roof of the physics building on the day of the solar eclipse and one of the professors had his Questar 3.5 set up with a solar filter.  I was invited to have a look.  That may have been the only chance I will have to look through a Questar.

 

Thank you very much, Bart, for this information concerning the U of M refractor!



#29 JoeInMN

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 01:43 AM

Reviving an ancient thread, I know, but this one turned up in my Google search for info about this telescope. The U of M has Public Nights at the Tate on Fridays during the school year (see schedule here). I went to last week's; a couple of students gave an enjoyable presentation about Pluto, and we got to see this beautiful telescope. Unfortunately the weather kept the dome closed, so I didn't get to actually look through it, but it was wonderful to see it anyway, a century-plus-old steampunk construction of black and brass and steel looming up into the dimness of the observatory (much darker in there than my picture's exposure makes it look). It's not Yerkes or Lick, but still by far the biggest refractor I've ever seen in person. Well worth the visit. Next time I'll make sure my picture includes the whole focuser...

 

um_telescope_800.jpg



#30 Kasmos

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 03:33 AM

Reviving an ancient thread, I know, but this one turned up in my Google search for info about this telescope. The U of M has Public Nights at the Tate on Fridays during the school year (see schedule here). I went to last week's; a couple of students gave an enjoyable presentation about Pluto, and we got to see this beautiful telescope. Unfortunately the weather kept the dome closed, so I didn't get to actually look through it, but it was wonderful to see it anyway, a century-plus-old steampunk construction of black and brass and steel looming up into the dimness of the observatory (much darker in there than my picture's exposure makes it look). It's not Yerkes or Lick, but still by far the biggest refractor I've ever seen in person. Well worth the visit. Next time I'll make sure my picture includes the whole focuser...

 

attachicon.gif um_telescope_800.jpg

Very cool. What size is it, and what's the size and focal length of that guide scope?


Edited by Kasmos, 14 April 2019 - 03:34 AM.


#31 JoeInMN

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:08 AM

Very cool. What size is it, and what's the size and focal length of that guide scope?

It's a 10.5", so not really out of the league even of some CNers' instruments, but impressive for its age and lineage and the general Jules Verne vibe that it gives off. I don't know what the two accessory scopes are; that long one must be, what, something like f/30 at least? I'll ask, if I make it to another one of those things.



#32 Kasmos

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 01:33 AM

It's a 10.5", so not really out of the league even of some CNers' instruments, but impressive for its age and lineage and the general Jules Verne vibe that it gives off. I don't know what the two accessory scopes are; that long one must be, what, something like f/30 at least? I'll ask, if I make it to another one of those things.

I'd say that's big enough for a refractor to start impressing you with it' size. I was also thinking about f/30 on the accessory scope. I thought it's really interesting how it spans the entire length of the main instrument's tube.



#33 JoeInMN

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 12:40 AM

Tonight's talk was about the Opportunity rover, and with clear weather the dome was opened. Pics were all taken without flash; long exposures (2 to 15 sec at f/2.8) make everything much brighter than reality.

 

The presenters there didn't know the guidescope's f/ratio, which I acknowledge isn't a bit of information that they would be carrying around in their heads anyway.

 

Camera on the floor, looking up at the pier:

 

190419_uofm_telescope_001.jpg

 



#34 JoeInMN

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 12:44 AM

Targeting the full Moon.

 

190419_uofm_telescope_002.jpg



#35 JoeInMN

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 12:52 AM

The mount, with serious setting circles, and a bit of good advice.

 

190419_uofm_telescope_003.jpg



#36 JoeInMN

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 01:04 AM

The south end of the RA axis. I'm curious about something here... The wire visible there runs from a little button switch, which I did not push, to what I assume is an illuminator for the setting circle pointer. The bracket that that is stuck onto has some sort of an eyepiece inserted into it. A second such eyepiece is visible on the opposite side, though the other illuminator, if such it is, is just an empty housing. I couldn't work out what the optics there were for; they didn't appear to be looking at anything, though I couldn't actually get my eye up to them.

 

190419_uofm_telescope_004.jpg



#37 JoeInMN

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 01:24 AM

And in the hall outside the dome is this little Fauth transit telescope. I saw no information posted about it. The window in front of it looks into the atrium of the Tate building.

 

190419_uofm_telescope_005.jpg

 

(This one was a flash photo)



#38 Don Taylor

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 09:21 AM

Stumbled across this thread and reading the posts brought back a lot of memories........(although not with this particular scope)

 

Between my Junior & Senior years of High School I attended an NSF summer Engineering program at the University of Illinois (Champaign-Urbana) for 6 weeks during the summer of 1972. The participants were exposed to a wide range of Engineering and Science subjects, classes, labs, did a project and so forth, during the day and many evenings.  Looking back, it was quite an amazing experience.  There were similar programs at Universities and colleges throughout the USA.  I remember applying for several - and was accepted for the U of I program.

 

Anyway - one of the evenings we had a program at the U of I campus observatory and spent an hour or two looking at various things through the telescope.  Also a 1896 Brashear/W&S so a contemporary of the one in this thread.  It would appear the scopes are quite similar (notwithstanding the difference in aperture). I remember having a discussion about the telescope with the professor (or ???) about the scope. I first asked "Clark?" - and he said no - Brashear, and then we talked quite a bit about the scope - but I don't remember the specifics. A beautiful scope and he was obviously quite proud of it. I remember being impressed by the views - but don't recall the targets. That was a long time ago.

 

Thinking back - I certainly did not know much about astronomy (other than my own back-yard observations with a hacked 60mm refractor) but I did go the library one in a while and read whatever copies of S&T they would have. Kinda surprised I would have know of Clark - but I had not heard of Brashear before that. And I thought W&S only made construction machines (e.g. the "Gradall").

 

I've had the great fortune of using some large telescopes (and that's another story) - but the U of I scope is the largest refractor I've had the pleasure of looking through.  I guess perhaps that evening was one that cemented my interests in astronomy and especially telescopes - an interest that has (so far) lasted almost 50 years from that one evening.  And - that NSF summer program launched me on to an Engineering career so that was another lasting effect as well.

 

Thanks for letting me reminisce a bit here! And thanks for all who added to this thread. Triggered lots of memories.

 

Here a few of links to the U of I scope if you were not aware of it:

 

https://uiobservator...et/items/show/1

 

http://observatory.astro.illinois.edu

 

https://en.wikipedia...bana–Champaign)

 

http://uias.astro.il....edu/index.html


Edited by Don Taylor, 20 April 2019 - 09:27 AM.


#39 John Higbee

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 07:00 PM

The south end of the RA axis. I'm curious about something here... The wire visible there runs from a little button switch, which I did not push, to what I assume is an illuminator for the setting circle pointer. The bracket that that is stuck onto has some sort of an eyepiece inserted into it. A second such eyepiece is visible on the opposite side, though the other illuminator, if such it is, is just an empty housing. I couldn't work out what the optics there were for; they didn't appear to be looking at anything, though I couldn't actually get my eye up to them.

 

attachicon.gif 190419_uofm_telescope_004.jpg

Could they be used in Polar alignment?



#40 JoeInMN

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 07:53 PM

Could they be used in Polar alignment?

I don't know... There's an awful lot of stuff in their way of any view of the sky. I wondered whether they might actually be more along the lines of microscopes, for reading some high-accuracy position markings on the bottom of the setting circle, but I couldn't make out any. Here's another view of the other one of them, a full-size detail of my pic in post #33.

 

190419_uofm_telescope_006.jpg



#41 JoeInMN

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 08:12 PM

The arms on the right side of that transit telescope also have little empty brackets clearly meant to hold some smallish cylindrical items, somewhat similarly aimed at the underside of the right-side disc, but that could well be something completely different. Pic is an enlarged detail. The outer edge of the left disc is etched with altitude markings in half-degree increments.

 

190419_uofm_telescope_007.jpg



#42 oldscope

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 07:23 PM

Could they be used in Polar alignment?

Hi John,

 

They are microscopes for reading the fine graduations engraved in the silver. One on each side to cancel out errors. Both circles should have them.

 

Bart



#43 JoeInMN

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:36 PM

Hi John,

 

They are microscopes for reading the fine graduations engraved in the silver. One on each side to cancel out errors. Both circles should have them.

 

Bart

That's what I was suspecting... I'll look more closely at the circle this week if I get back there, and see if I can make out any tiny markings (and on that transit scope also).

 

I did get to look at the lunar limb through the telescope, though it wasn't focused for my eye, and I didn't touch it. The seeing was obviously pretty rough, though, so I don't think I missed much. Looking at the instrument was enough of a treat already...



#44 Ken Launie

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:59 AM

That's what I was suspecting... I'll look more closely at the circle this week if I get back there, and see if I can make out any tiny markings (and on that transit scope also).

 

I did get to look at the lunar limb through the telescope, though it wasn't focused for my eye, and I didn't touch it. The seeing was obviously pretty rough, though, so I don't think I missed much. Looking at the instrument was enough of a treat already...

Bart is correct. What you should look for is an inlaid silver circle about 1/4" wide directly below that will have VERY fine lines such as you'd see on a protractor (assuming over-zealous people haven't polished them away). You should also see a short vernier section under each viewing telescope or eyepiece that allows finer interpolation between the lines. Depending on the size of the circle, they would permit measurement to 5 or fewer minutes of arc.

--Ken



#45 JoeInMN

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:49 AM

A few more pictures from this week. Presentation was about the Parker Solar probe.

 

I took my small headlight from my bike in with me so I could see and shoot some things a bit better. The RA circle does have fine markings on the underside.

 

190426_uofm_telescope_001.jpg

 

One of the presenters was kind enough to hold the light for me while I attempted to shoot the view through the setting circle microscope, with limited success.

 

190426_uofm_telescope_002.jpg



#46 JoeInMN

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:53 AM

Another view of the business end of this telescope.

 

190426_uofm_telescope_004.jpg



#47 JoeInMN

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:54 AM

As above.

 

190426_uofm_telescope_003.jpg



#48 JoeInMN

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 01:13 AM

The guidescope (?) eyepiece.

 

190426_uofm_telescope_005.jpg



#49 JoeInMN

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 01:14 AM

190426_uofm_telescope_006.jpg



#50 x-ray

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 11:37 PM

I have recently mostly finished restoring a close twin to this scope, the 9.5 inch from Beloit College.  It now has a new triplet objective, the original 1978 Clark objective stayed with Keystone College in PA, who built a new scope for it.  It is a marvel of industrial art, and still a great telescope after 100 years.  I am intimately familiar with most of the bolts and nuts in the machine, so if you have any questions, I can respond and/or send you pictures.

Alan

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