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#51 davela

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:28 PM

I do remember a scope you had for sale once (if you are who I think you are) at RTMC several years ago - a complete Optical Craftsmen 8" Discoverer, just like the one I bought in 1972. I was tempted because of the similarity to a scope that I had and was fond of. Truthfully, I parted that scope out when it was only about 7 years old, and thus lacking in collector interest at that time. Your price for the complete unit was high, but not outrageous. I actually sometimes wish I'd bought it at the time. But it was too much scope for that mount, which is why its optics are in another scope that I built in 81.

Sure wasn't me

My heart pumps peanut butter for you. Look, I just bought a TV NP101is, and combined it with a vintage Super Polaris mount I found on craigslist for a great price, but then I paid retail to put a Gotonova upgrade kit on it. It's a nice package, and I intend to sell it as a whole when I'm done with it. I'll probably get less for it than if I part it out, of course. But it's more important to me that I sell it (when I do) with a clear conscience, knowing that there will be few chances for the buyer to be frustrated with it, knowing I will have worked out all the bugs. I will also feel more than compensated for my efforts and folding greens by having had the chance to enjoy the complete, functioning package between now and when I do decide to part with it. I have a day job, so I don't need to pay bills buying and selling hobby equipment.

Nothing special about a SP and a TV101. If selling personal possessions at a loss make you feel good, well I suppose that's fine, but 99% of the world is not on-board for that I'm afraid.


So it's the collector's fault that you decided not to keep a quality collectible telescope together?

reductio ad absurdum

I'm not interested in helping you make a living at the expense of even these "gray area" soon-to-be-historic instruments.

Don't worry Tim, I won't be requiring your help

And yes, I do think that your prices for the components are too high.


Apparently others don't agree. Most of the items posted have either been sold or I have offers (multiple offers in some cases)

And Tim, yes I think it's fine to part out a 5" (or any) Unitron. I firmly believe in the sanctity of private property. However, if I owned a 5" Unitron I'd be looking for a site to build a dome for it.
 

#52 donnw

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:53 PM

Hmmm - interesting series of posts, but I think it needs moved to its own thread - si? It's hard to find all the latest classic scope deals in the midst of all these really long posts ;-) ;-)
 

#53 tim53

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 12:30 AM

Nothing special about a SP and a TV101. If selling personal possessions at a loss make you feel good, well I suppose that's fine, but 99% of the world is not on-board for that I'm afraid.


There's no need to be so frightened. What makes you think I'll take a loss when I sell the TV? I got a great price on the OTA and mount. I paid retail for the goto upgrade, yes, but I'm still very much ahead, expenditure-wise. Plus, I intend to use it.

So it's the collector's fault that you decided not to keep a quality collectible telescope together?

reductio ad absurdum


Like the argument earlier about having to buy a whole car to replace a bad radiator. Yes, I see what you mean.

And yes, I do think that your prices for the components are too high.


Apparently others don't agree. Most of the items posted have either been sold or I have offers (multiple offers in some cases)


Why not collect Barbie dolls? Their wardrobes and accessories are perfectly designed to be separated, put back together, and sent pell-mell to the ends of the Earth.

And Tim, yes I think it's fine to part out a 5" (or any) Unitron. I firmly believe in the sanctity of private property.


So do I, but I've seen people wave that flag to justify destroying something of historic significance, almost as much to spite the preservationists as in service of the almighty buck.

However, if I owned a 5" Unitron I'd be looking for a site to build a dome for it.


Not me. I'd sell it to Caveman (intact!) and buy a nice old long-focus Newtonian. Maybe a Brashear, if I can ever find one. But a Cave, Optical Craftsmen, Coast, Criterion, or Star-Liner might be nice if I can't.

-Tim.
 

#54 tim53

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 12:31 AM

Hmmm - interesting series of posts, but I think it needs moved to its own thread - si? It's hard to find all the latest classic scope deals in the midst of all these really long posts ;-) ;-)


Ah, yes! I think I agree. ...but maybe the mods need to make the move?

-Tim
 

#55 Littlegreenman

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 03:06 AM

I want to add my 2 cents worth. I wrote this after reading posts last night, and just read some recent posts. So I will make this Part 1. Part will come soon.

When you buy old telescopes like this, they often have missing parts, broken parts, non-functioning but fixable parts, miss-matched parts, or parts that don’t belong. Sometimes, if you are lucky, there is a part or accessory that appears to have never been used.

For the sake of discussion, let’s imagine a telescope sold 30 years ago. 100 were made. Currently 10 are in really nice condition, 25 are in incomplete condition, 40 have some major defect or issue, and the rest have been destroyed. (We are assuming there are none left collecting dust in attics and garages).

By mixing and matching parts, we may end up with, say, 25 pretty good setups, 20 incomplete, and some left over parts. I don’t see anything wrong with that. The other option is to try to make as many setups by using non-original parts. We may end up with 15 mostly original scopes, and 30 partly original scopes. I don't see that this is an issue of right or wrong. Is the world better or worse if one or other happens? There is no real answer, of course.

Supply and Demand. If nobody were restoring old scopes, there would be no market for parts. If you want to stop parting-out scopes, that’s were you should look. Go after the people restoring scopes!

Late comment: if we are talking about some historical, museum piece scope, arguments to keep it together would carry more weight in my mind. But this isn't one of them.

Littlegreenman
 

#56 Littlegreenman

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 04:21 AM

Part 2 on parting out. *

Years ago I had a 1976 Lancia Beta Coupe. I’d also lusted after the Lancia Zagato from that era. If you want to get one and keep it running, it’s easy. Buy one to drive and 4 extras to cannibalize for parts. The simple fact is, for both 30 year old Lancias and Unitrons, some of the original parts have been lost, damaged, destroyed. To get a functional or restored one, you may have to mix and match parts by salvaging them from other set ups. We will never have the same number of fully functional setups that were originally sold.

In my previous post I asserted that:
“When you buy old telescopes like this, they often have missing parts, broken parts, non-functioning but fixable parts, miss-matched parts, or parts that don’t belong. Sometimes, if you are lucky, there is a part or accessory that appears to have never been used.”

It just so happens that I am a friend of davela, the seller of the Unitron stuff that started this row. In fact, he sold me my first scope.

When he acquired the Unitron he is selling, he invited me over both to ooh and ahh and to help him get it up and running. 4 hands and 1.5 brains** can be an advantage. And, this scope had missing, broken, and non-functional parts, miss-matched parts, parts that didn’t belong, a few items that appeared to have never been used, and more than a handful of mystery items.

We spent several evenings working on the mount and collimation. I’m sure he has many many hours of elbow grease invested in it. The mount was not in working condition when he acquired it. There is a spring loaded bearing that was not seated right, and at least one axis was frozen due to old dried grease. We partially disassembled the mount and regreased it. We had to futz with the tightness of several bolts. I know he did a lot more work on the mount when I wasn’t around; he worked on it constantly for several weeks in his off time. Of course, this was represented as being “hardly used in great condition” when he bought it. Eventually he got it to the point where everything works, but it is not a fully restored set up.

To turn what he has into a restored, near complete set-up would cost more money, work and effort. It would require new parts to be made or parts bought from other sellers parting their scopes out. That is the quandary.:shrug:

Dave used this scope and had fun with it for a while, but for whatever reason he decided to sell it. What I want to point out in defense of davela is that this set-up was not a wonderful complete set up to begin with. It’s much better now than when he got it. But it still is not a complete original setup. BTW, some of the items he’s selling were optional accessories when purchased new.

Of course, if someone feels strongly about keeping it all together, just contact him and offer to buy everything.

Final comment: I will continue to buy and sell from anybody!

Littlegreenman

*Does this mean I’m parting my posting out?

** I supplied the 0.5 brains.
 

#57 AaronM

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 07:50 AM

Sorry for my statement as a far away "Kraut" - but : I think Davela can sell his items in any way he want. He has not to jutify himself how he is selling his property.

Kind regards Michael ;)
 

#58 woodsman

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 11:01 AM

I thought your reasoning was well thought out. I think it is an interesting discussion, and can be suited to this forum, provided it doesn't become too heated. There have been good points made on both sides. Right now, I am somewhere in the middle as I have been looking for a few things to complete a couple of my scopes. I even had a finder for my Sears 90mm, that came on a Tasco 7TE that I owned. I ended up giving it to my brother-in-law for Christmas, but couldn't bring myself to take the finder and mount off it, even though it would have completed the Sears 90mm. It was a tough decision, but I imagine that one will surface someday. When it does, I'll be there! :grin:
 

#59 akman1955

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:04 PM

:jump:well said woodsman, just too let you know i bought the mount and legs with shipping too alaska (150.00) and all for the good as i now have two complete eq 3" unitrons with accesary's that will not be parted out but sold as whole when i decide too do so. so out of the ashe's of one ..two are born nicer the the original beleive me :jump: so this dead horse is beat too death :roflmao: :foreheadslap: now if someone can tell me how too put small enough pictures onto forum or as attachments i'll keep you all informed. thanks, john
 

#60 akman1955

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:09 PM

Also woodsman, what size finder and color that you need for your sears refractor? john
 

#61 mustgobigger

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:57 PM

what the... link
 

#62 mustgobigger

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:59 PM

HUH! CL link
 

#63 mikey cee

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 07:31 PM

Looks like another flooroscope again. Look at the finder....this party means business. :grin:These are becoming less rare than I thought.:smirk:Mike
 

#64 davidmcgo

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 07:39 PM

You could always tell people they could see the feet on the Moon...

Dave
 

#65 woodsman

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 12:38 AM

Hey John,
The finder that originally came with the Sears was a 5X 25mm. It is white, with a black dewshield. I think they may have made a couple different colors for the dewshield for different scopes, but the mounting bracket has a base that is a cast or machined piece that is more roundish, with a tapering shaft, smaller at the top and gradually getting wider towards the bottom, flaring into the mounting foot that is bullnosed in the front, with three mounting screws that attach to the tube of the telescope, rather than the focuser body. The mount ring is a single cylinder. My old 7TE Tasco, from the '50s used the same type of finder. I think it may have been used on other scopes, if they were Royal Astro manufactured. I've seen other finders that were similar listed as 5X 24mm, which might be the same thing. Thanks, Rich
 

#66 akman1955

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 12:45 AM

Hi woodsman,(rich)? i'll check what i have ..if so its yours,john
 

#67 woodsman

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 01:31 AM

Hey thanks John, I'd be grateful. Rich
 

#68 Siguy

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:00 AM

Anyone know whether this is a good deal on a Dynascope? I'm slightly intrigued.
link
 

#69 woodsman

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:08 AM

Seems like a pretty decent deal to me. It looks to be in pretty good conditon as well.
 

#70 mikey cee

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 11:47 AM

I'd have bought it yesterday for that price. :smirk:Mike
 

#71 AlienFirstClass

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 02:08 PM

FYI...

http://tucson.craigs...1405974861.html
 

#72 Happy-Idiot

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 05:43 PM

Evil-bay COC
 

#73 teast

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 08:11 PM

Can't tell if it's a 6 inch or an 8 inch -

Red tube Edmunds

I'm not the seller.

-Tom
 

#74 akman1955

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 09:12 PM

:)Hey Rich, i have ota tasco 99vr with finder and mount that sounds like what you need. mount is attached by 3 screws and all metal but is red tube. nice finder plus i have extra c-90 5 x 24 orange tube finder... you can have anyone you want and does this help? :question: john
 

#75 CHASLX200

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 09:15 PM

Can't tell if it's a 6 inch or an 8 inch -

Red tube Edmunds

Looks like a 8 to me.

Chas
I'm not the seller.

-Tom


 


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