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Where can I get PixInsight LE?

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#1 Michael Morris

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 11:20 AM

I'm trying to get hold of a copy of the freeware Pixinsight LE software, but I can't find a download page anywhere. It looks as though Plieades software don't produce it any more (not listed on their website). Any ideas as to where I can get a copy would be much appreciated.

Thanks

#2 Aaron Turner

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:02 PM

I found out just a few minutes ago that they no longer provide a freeware version of their product. The freeware version was noted to not represent the current maturity of their product, and was indeed several years old. The full version will run 200 euros including the VAT, or about $300 US.

Very disappointing, though I respect their right to do this. I believe (reading between the lines on their forum announcing the removal of LE) that they were concerned their sales were being adversely affected by the availability of LE. Probably true, but I can't see spending that amount on image processing personally.

#3 marques

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 05:05 PM

I think that on emule you can download the LE version, included with the 1.02 patch,
In case someone thinks I´m recomending piracy,I remember that LE was always for free, and now is discontinued.

#4 Aaron Turner

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:56 PM

The only comment I'm compelled to make is that Pleades Astrophoto specifically says that uploading copies of LE to any server is not allowed as part of the license agreement. Having removed it from their own servers, it cannot be legally available off a server.

#5 Niall Saunders

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:35 AM

You can't - it is that simple.

PixInsight LE has been withdrawn from ALL distribution. If you already have a copy, then you may continue to use it.

Cloudy Nights- I am ASTONISHED that you are condoning, by lack of moderation, the attitudes of some memebers who are happy to direct people to sites that are OPENLY advocating SOFTWARE PIRACY.

The accompanying documentation of PixInsight LE clearly states that the user is not authorized to upload PixInsight LE or any of its components to any web server, website or online service:

http://pixinsight.co...egal/legal.html

Consequently, the public distribution of PixInsight LE software through the Internet is not allowed without explicit prior consent from the sole owner of the copyright, i.e. Pleiades Astrophoto S.L.

Of course, uploading PixInsight LE installation files to a P2P or file sharing service is illegal for the same reason.

The fact that a software product is freeware does not confer to the user any rights of ownership or distribution on the product.

However, that said, why would anyone be interested in trying to use a product that has not been supported, or developed, for several years now?

As I find myself continuously repeating, if you want to try out the powers of PixInsight (in any of its 32 and 64-bit incarnations, for any popular OS platform you might be using) then simply download any, or ALL, of the UNRESTRICTED, full-blown trial versions available at www.pixinsight.com

You get a free thirty-day trial license, which (like your full-blown license) will cover ALL versions, for all platforms, and for all foreseeable upgrades. And there is no 'hobbling' of the processes available to you (unlike some other packages).

And, because PI is run by decent people, fellow astronomers like you, they will even entertain a well-presented discussion if you needed to extend your trial period.

Of course, there are those that will never look past the likes of PhotoShop - and, of those, there is also (no doubt) a significant proportion who use PS in it's 'Freeware' incarnation (i.e. illegally obtained).

But theft is theft, no matter how you look at things.

Just because PixInsight LE has been deleted from its official distribution channel does NOT mean that you can 'steal' it.

In any case - why would you want to? It would be like stealing a copy of Windows 3.0. Yes, it might allow you to 'do something', but - when you know that there is a better option out there - why go to all the trouble?

Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, SCOTLAND

#6 Niall Saunders

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:45 AM

I believe (reading between the lines on their forum announcing the removal of LE) that they were concerned their sales were being adversely affected by the availability of LE.


Completely incorrect Aaron - it was removed from circulation as it just didn't represent the massive improvements and enhancements now available in the full-blown version.

And, if that means that you choose not to give the new version a fair trial - cost free - because you know that you will never be willing to spend the $300 at the end of the day, then that is also fine.

Nobody is forcing anybody to buy into PixInsight - there are plenty of other packages out there that will allow you to manipulate images. Some are free. Some are significantly more expensive than PI. Do any of them offer the power and flexibility that PI offers?

That is the real question.

You will only buy into PI if you accept that it is "the correct tool for the job". Just like a tradesman has the choice between buying a $800 saw for working his timber, or using something that he finds in the Home Depot 'clearance' section.

Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, SCOTLAND

#7 Niall Saunders

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:50 AM

In case someone thinks I´m recomending piracy,I remember that LE was always for free, and now is discontinued.


Yes, you ARE recommending software piracy. Software Piracy is a legal definition, set by international bodies.

Your actions are encouraging others to break the law - your actions are facilitating this crime. You could be sucessfully prosecuted in a Spanish court of law, and could face fines of many thousands of Euros.

Niall Saunders
Clinterty Observatories
Aberdeen, SCOTLAND

#8 JAT Observatory

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 12:39 PM

Aaron, I suggest you avoid Spain until this blows over.

#9 marques

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 05:48 PM

Ok, I think I have to apologize. Evidently I made a mistake thinking that LE version was abandonware. I have it downloaded from the pleiades site (a few years ago) and I didn´t read the licence, to be sincere.
I will NEVER recommend piracy, never. And that is what I was trying to explain with my infortunate phrase.
I feel a bit as if I was condemned without judgement, to tell you the trhuth, but as it was my mistake, I repeat my apologies.

#10 astrotrf

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 09:17 AM

While Niall makes some good points about the PixInsight folks and their right to restrict and discontinue distribution of LE, let's not lose sight of some practicalities here.

Once something is put out on the Internet, you cannot reasonably expect it to die just because you want it to. There are, in particular, a number of places that exist solely to copy and archive content on the Internet (I dunno *where* they get the disk space ...). These places perform an invaluable service when disputes arise over things like what a company's web site *used* to say on such and such a date that they are denying ever saying *now*.

To accuse such a place of openly advocating software piracy merely by copying and making available publicly- and freely-accessible web content is quite a stretch. And to accuse an individual of advocating software piracy for merely pointing out the availability of such content is likewise extreme. Essentially, the accuser is setting a standard whereby anyone disclosing the location of *any* Internet content would be responsible for tracking down, reading, and understanding any possible licensing of such content beforehand.

PixInsight may wish that no downloadable copies of LE existed anywhere on the net, but the expectation that it will happen is unrealistic. A simple Google search will turn up a number of places where it can be downloaded.

I am not a lawyer, so I won't pass on whether marques could be convicted in Spain of abetting software piracy. But most civilized and modern judicial systems look to intent and reasonable expectation when setting standards for conviction. And certainly, by his own words in the post in question, I think he has a pretty solid defense on those grounds.

And, Niall, while I won't avoid Spain myself (at least not for this reason), I'll doubtless avoid Aberdeen after posting this. :)

#11 Aaron Turner

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 11:16 AM

Just to make sure we've got the record straight, I completely agree with Niall on the property rights of Pleiades Astrophoto - that the LE version is now illegal to obtain from a server, and that they have every right to try to stop its distribution.

At the same time, however, I have to disagree with his assertion that LE was not removed for marketing reasons - of course that was the motivation! Why else would they care that "it just didn't represent the massive improvements and enhancements now available in the full-blown version".

As for this comment: "why would anyone be interested in trying to use a product that has not been supported, or developed, for several years now?", I think not many folks in this community would be supportive of that attitude, unless they have VERY deep pockets to empty on their hobby every few years - how much obsolete techonology do each of us continue to use because we can't afford to replace it??

I did just check to see if Niall is on the PixInsight development team - and he isn't - so either there's a connection that we don't understand, or he's just a very avid fan of that platform. It's wonderful for Pleiades to have such a devoted supporter, but I think his rabid marketing commentary is a bit misplaced here.

#12 marques

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 06:30 PM

What for sure is illegal, and that´s the key (I think)is to use any software from wich you don´t have a proper licence. What I mean is that Emule is not illegal because there is neither server nor profit. At the end, it´s just people borrowing things to other people, and that´s perfectly legal. That´s the reason why it´s still open an functioning.
So, if you download something from any source, you don´t break any law. BUT, if you use that thing without the proper licence, THEN you are breaking the law. And that´s no piracy, because piracy requires a commercial profit, in Europe and in the US. It´s something as illegal as piracy, IE. violating the commercial rights (I´m not sure of the legal term in english, sorry) of someone that has paid for those rights (copyrigt, etc..). So my mistake, I think, was not to recommend to take something from emule, but to think that the licence of PI LE whould permit the legal use of that software. I´ll defend the utility of PTP as a way of sharing information, but I´m totally and in any way against using a software without the proper licence.
By the way, PI is a spanish software, and 90% of the licences are from Spain. And incidentally, I personally know the father of that software, who belonged to the same astronomy club as me. So you may imagine that I whouldn´t try to harm them conciously.
With this too long post I´m not trying to justify myself (I maintain my apologies) but I´m just trying to show mr. Saunders that for accusing someone from theft and threathening someone with jail, or with fines of thousands of euros you have to be very sure of what you are saying.
To finish, I hope that no one avoids visiting Spain because of me. And thanks, Terry.

#13 marques

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 06:35 PM

Ey, I just realized that the 3 only posts that mr. Saunders has written here has been against me! what an honor!

#14 astrotrf

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 06:54 PM

Just to make sure we've got the record straight, I completely agree with Niall on the property rights of Pleiades Astrophoto - that the LE version is now illegal to obtain from a server, and that they have every right to try to stop its distribution.


And I, too, want to emphasize that Pleiades Astrophoto has every right to withdraw PixInsight LE. Purely from an intellectual point of view, however, I am far less than certain that it is actually illegal to obtain the software from a server, particularly if the server could have obtained the PixInsight LE download file merely by site scraping without ever having agreed to any particular licensing terms. I haven't read the license, but the bit referred to here stated that uploading it to a server was disallowed; it didn't say that running the software was disallowed if you downloaded it from a site other than theirs.

IANAL, but this would all make for some interesting legal argument.

Having said all of that, let me also add that you aren't going to find a more reasonable attitude toward software licensing anywhere than that exhibited by the Pleiades Astrophoto folks. If you're like me, and suffer a small pang of hatred every time yet another highly-restrictive EULA pops up on your screen to which you must agree, you're going to like the PixInsight terms. They are worth supporting for that reason alone -- PixInsight is definitely on my Christmas list!

Disclaimer: I don't have even the remotest connection to Pleiades Astrophoto.

#15 V Peris

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:40 AM

By the way, PI is a spanish software, and 90% of the licences are from Spain.


Hello,

it's amazing how big can be imagination of some people. This is completely false. To date, as I know from the PixInsight's forum, ONLY 27.9% of commercial PixInsight licenses correspond to Spanish users.

So, why you say this?? Please, be sure what you are saying publicly before making such an statement.


Regards,
Vicent.

#16 marques

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 01:42 PM

By the way, PI is a spanish software, and 90% of the licences are from Spain.


Hello,

it's amazing how big can be imagination of some people. This is completely false. To date, as I know from the PixInsight's forum, ONLY 27.9% of commercial PixInsight licenses correspond to Spanish users.

So, why you say this?? Please, be sure what you are saying publicly before making such an statement.

Regards,
Vicent.

Really? I´m so sorry :o I think I read somewere(could be fotografiaastronomica.com?). Looks like everytime I open my mouth in this forum I make a mistake!!! Anyway, I only was trying to say that being spanish is a reason to deffend this particular software, and that, I think (I hope, after all my mistakes) is true.
Believe me, it´s been years writing in several forums, and never happened this to me. Hope all the misunderstandings are because of my lack of proper english, or something like that.

#17 V Peris

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 01:55 PM

I think that's the main reason why Pleiades Astrophoto S.L. is not releasing a spanish version of the software. Looking those statistics, it's clear that the spanish market is not the main one.

Best regards,
Vicent.

#18 marques

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 03:44 PM

Vicent, you have a private message, please read it.


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