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Docter UWA 12.5mm

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#51 Mike Hosea

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 09:38 PM

I was actually asking about the Leica aspheric zoom (not to worry, I found my answers in an older thread), but thanks for your impressions of the 12.5mm Docter.

I'm actually not surprised that you detected no lateral color. My own suspicion would be that this lack of lateral color, in addition to excellent control of all other aberrations, would more likely explain the observations made here than a supposed quantum difference in glass quality, polish, and coatings. Lateral color has historically been one of the aberrations that "got away" with superwide and ultrawide eyepieces. Rope that one in without letting the others go, and I imagine that it would be as sight to see.

#52 Tiny

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:05 PM

APM has it for a mere $762 (using the currency convertor website) plus whatever credit charges and shipping and insurance need to be added.


Actually its less since their price includes VAT which the US doesnt pay.

$640 for the EP and then a flat rate shipping fee of only $115.

Call me crazy but get some legit reviews up that actually do some side by side comparisons to back some of these claims up [Ethos destroyer, better than the Abbe Ortho II etc..] and get that shipping under control, or a domestic dealer, and people would happily buy them i'm sure. They're priced right up there with the Ethos.

#53 Dr Morbius

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 11:29 PM

Oh, and thanks Tammy!..... :bow:

#54 BWAZ

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 01:52 AM

I'd be very interested knowing how the eyepiece performs in fast Dobs.

#55 andydj5xp

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:53 AM


I'm glad you liked it. And as I've stated in my review it is really kind of unbelievable. It has ample field of view, ample eye relief, it has a zoom's versatility, and - most important - its contrast transfer, lack of stray light, and resolution is like the ZAOIIs.


How's the correction for lateral color? What are the available solutions for a 2" or 1.25" barrel?


There is a minor amount of lateral color at the very edge near the field stop. But one has to look careful to see it.

As to the adapter there is almost no chance using it for 1.25". The only possibility would be to do it by means of a 1.25"-nosepiece/2"-filter-thread adapter (or in my case a 1.25"-nosepiece/T2-adapter (Baader T2 #14)). But this would require another 25mm intrafocal way!

You will have seen the proposed DIY-solution shown

here

Andreas

#56 joner

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 05:52 AM

I'd be very interested knowing how the eyepiece perform in fast Dobs.


So would I.

I'm buildin a 14.7" f4.5 and am really intrested in this ep.

#57 BadClams

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:30 AM

Does anyone have links to the manufacturer or vendors, etc of the Docter EP? Didn't see anything on APM America....

and while we're at it, what about links for the Leica zoom that was also discussed here?

#58 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 07:58 AM

I'd be very interested knowing how the eyepiece perform in fast Dobs.


Hi Bo,

Vendor Forum NIKON NAV arrived, diffrent real specs

Take a look at this thread (not Docter eyepiece thread but Nikon :) You'll find Markus' comment on Docter UWA 12.5 with his 24" f/4.3 Dob toward end of the thread.

The fastest scope I looked through is NP127 f/5.2 at star party. I would say 95% of field is pretty sharp, no noticeable artifacts. Last 5% you may find some lateral color on bright star if you are careful but it could be due to my eye not eyepiece :)

Tammy

#59 CounterWeight

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:24 AM

Thanks all for posting comments and impressions about this eyepiece / manufacture.

#60 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:38 AM

I'd be very interested knowing how the eyepiece perform in fast Dobs.


Me too, although I rarely use dobs anymore these days. I will test it in my 10" Teleport which is F-5 with and without a coma corrector. Too much wind last night to see with the DK scope.

#61 John Rhodes

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:27 AM

I kinda felt bad for John Rhodes given the fact that he brought the full and complete line of Televue Ethos eyepieces including the brand new 3.7 SX -- and none of our group was particularly interested in any of the Ethos save the new SX and the 21 mm Ethos

DON'T... I had a great night the 21, 17 13 & 10 Ethos were lent out all night !
I kept the 6 & 3.7 for the 127 on Saturn, though the 3.7 still got around.
the 16 dob owner loved the 13 E.

#62 APM America

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:34 AM

Does anyone have links to the manufacturer or vendors, etc of the Docter EP? Didn't see anything on APM America....

and while we're at it, what about links for the Leica zoom that was also discussed here?


You can find the Leica and information on it on our website. The Docter eyepiece is a new item we brought in for NEAF. We sold what we had and do not yet have it up on the site. You can contact me for more information or to place an order.

Thanks,
Christine

#63 John Rhodes

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:35 AM

We later used the Docter in John Rhodes' Televue Petzval 127 apo refractor and viewed the Beehive and Saturn. As I recall made no further comparisons with any other Ethos eyepiece to the Docter -- there was no need to do so as it was clear to me and I suspect it was equally clear everyone else that the Docter was the superior eyepiece.

Everyone else being you and Daniel ... I was there !

#64 andydj5xp

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 11:22 AM

Does anyone have links to the manufacturer or vendors, etc of the Docter EP? Didn't see anything on APM America....

and while we're at it, what about links for the Leica zoom that was also discussed here?


You can find the Leica and information on it on our website. The Docter eyepiece is a new item we brought in for NEAF. We sold what we had and do not yet have it up on the site. You can contact me for more information or to place an order.

Thanks,
Christine


The Leica zoom on the APM America site is the old one (22-7.3mm) which is VERY different from the Leica ASPH zoom 17.8-8.9mm. Info about this new zoom can be found

here

Although the "old" one is very good also - I used to have it for about nine years - the new one is WAY better.

Andreas

#65 jonstarrysky

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 11:45 AM

Are there further comments on binoviewing experiences with this eyepiece (pls permit me to not use the rather quiet BV forum) ??

What strikes me immediately is the 2" outer barrel and the recess in the 1.25" barrel to stop it slipping. I am envisaging this will not be convenient to secure in a Denk binoveiwer, somewhat like a 13 Ethos. When I tried a 13mm Ethos in the denk the whole size thing led me to immediataly dismiss the idea of a pair. Would the docter be significantly different from a physical perspective ? How about a Denk D14 and Docter shoot-out ? The Denk would be more practical, but optically ?????

#66 BWAZ

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 12:31 PM

I'd be very interested knowing how the eyepiece perform in fast Dobs.


Hi Bo,

Vendor Forum NIKON NAV arrived, diffrent real specs

Take a look at this thread (not Docter eyepiece thread but Nikon :) You'll find Markus' comment on Docter UWA 12.5 with his 24" f/4.3 Dob toward end of the thread.

The fastest scope I looked through is NP127 f/5.2 at star party. I would say 95% of field is pretty sharp, no noticeable artifacts. Last 5% you may find some lateral color on bright star if you are careful but it could be due to my eye not eyepiece :)

Tammy


Thanks, Tammy for the comments. It's been a while since last time I felt so excited about acquiring a new eyepiece (Ethos 13mm) and I'm pretty sure the Docter 12.5" is gonna be my next acquisition.

#67 Scott99

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 01:12 PM

Hi Dave:
I do like that new Nikon. As I have said it is one of the four that I'm now going to get but Docter makes a 16.4 for their binoculars and I now think that I'm going to have to look into that eyepiece as well.
That Nikon certainly properly fills the gap between the Pentax 14 XW and the 20 XW.
Bill


Somebody get me a Docter! The 16.4mm was one of my favorite eyepieces for years. FOV in the low 60's. I wish I still had it today, it's focus position was a little extreme, I think I got tired of re-focusing and it wouldn't come to focus in one of my scopes (too close)

#68 Tarzanrock

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 02:00 PM

As hard as this will be for many to believe, after what I saw last night, I don't even think I own anything that stands up to this eyepiece in contrast regardless of its design. Even the light through-put was unusually high compared to anything I've seen. Specs on paper may say otherwise being a multi element design but I saw what I saw.

I have used and tested many eyepieces over the years. Of course there are various focal length classes to consider, but if anybody asked me what eyepiece left an indelible mark on me, then this is it. This eyepiece is the finest glass I've ever seen regardless of design.


Hi Daniel:
I, too, saw what I saw! I fully concur and I agree with your assessment; and, I know that I said as much last Saturday night to you and to others that evening. I am more than confident that it will perform superbly in your Mewlon; and, I will be most interested in knowing how it performs in that instrument.
Although I am not positive, I believe that the eye relief is at least 18 mm; and, I think that the eyepiece has 8 lens elements arranged in 5 groups.
It is the best eyepiece I've viewed through bar none.
Bill

#69 John Rhodes

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 02:36 PM

Hi John:
We put the Televue 3.7 SX in John Rhodes' Televue Petzval 127 refractor.
When I said that the SX was a "game changer" I said that because I think that the SX design will replace the Ethos line. I'm no expert on optical design but I know what I saw with the SX and what I saw was better than any other Televue eyepiece I own or have viewed through and I own a lot of premium Televue eyepieces. I don't own any Ethos eyepieces although I've observed with all of them but there is no doubt whatsoever that I am going to buy the SX eyepiece when it becomes available. I think that the SX is cutting edge technology and it is going to be the new design for the second decade of the 21st Century much like the original 13 mm Nagler was last Century.
You are going to be reading a lot of superlatives about this SX eyepiece from the usual assortment of "experts" who write the product reviews in the various astronomy magazines and astro forums but in my simple mind Nagler really hit it out of the park with this eyepiece.
Bill

Tarzanrock, glad you're so excited by the views through 3.7mm Ethos-SX!  I'd just like to point out that it's named Ethos-SX because it's based off of the Ethos design.  You wrote that you know what you saw and I'm not challenging that, but please also know that there is no technical explanation that would lead to your conclusion about it as compared to the other Ethos models.  Also, please note the the Ethos line, including the new 3.7mm SX, was designed by Paul Dellechiaie of Tele Vue.  Al is against taking credit for other peoples' work.

#70 Tarzanrock

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:52 PM

Hi John:
You said: "...but please also know that there is no technical explanation that would lead to your conclusion about it as compared to the other Ethos models."
Are you really certain about this statement?
I don't have any access to any of the engineering drawings for the Ethos line nor do I have access to the drawings reflecting the lens groupings and lens layouts for any of the various Ethos eyepieces since such is most undoubtedly protected proprietary interests of Televue.
That being said, I suspect the that new 3.7 SX is different from the other Ethos eyepieces; and, I do think that there is "technical explanation" for that difference which would most likely be found in the comparative analysis of the engineering drawings of it as compared to the applicable engineering drawings of the various other Ethos eyepieces.
Bill
P.S. I hope that a lot of people come the RTMC this year; and, that they have the opportunity both meet you and to view through the new SX eyepiece as I was fortunate to do last Saturday night. Televue is going to be selling a lot of these eyepieces.

#71 BadClams

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:53 PM

The Leica zoom on the APM America site is the old one (22-7.3mm) which is VERY different from the Leica ASPH zoom 17.8-8.9mm. Info about this new zoom can be found

here

Although the "old" one is very good also - I used to have it for about nine years - the new one is WAY better.

Andreas


Might someone explain.....the link shows an EP described as "25 - 50 x WW ASPH".
How is it determined that it translates to 17.8 - 8.9mm fl????

Gracias and sorry for being OT!

#72 andydj5xp

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 04:05 PM


The Leica zoom on the APM America site is the old one (22-7.3mm) which is VERY different from the Leica ASPH zoom 17.8-8.9mm. Info about this new zoom can be found

here

Although the "old" one is very good also - I used to have it for about nine years - the new one is WAY better.

Andreas


Might someone explain.....the link shows an EP described as "25 - 50 x WW ASPH".
How is it determined that it translates to 17.8 - 8.9mm fl????

Gracias and sorry for being OT!


The new Leica ASPH Zoom was designed for their spotting scopes (82mm and 65mm). "25x-50x" refers to the available magnifications together with these spotting scopes.

There has been some confusion about this zoom's focal range. At first it was announced as "18-9mm" eyepiece for the new Leica spotting scopes (440mm focal length). But the likewise stated magnification range from 25x to 50x would have resulted in focal lengths of 17.6mm to 8.8mm. Later Leica has published the data as "17.9-9mm" (17.9mm +/- 0.15mm - 9mm +/- 0.1mm). I've chosen to call it 17.8-8.9mm as a compromise. Anyway, it's not important since these differences are only marginal. The magnification figures 30x and 40x correspond with focal lengths of 14.8mm and 11.1mm.

Hope it helps.

Andreas

#73 BadClams

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 05:45 PM

perhaps a new thread can be dedicated to this Leica (if there isn't one already?)? I'd like to learn more, i.e. the posted link doesn't mention FOV.

#74 csa/montana

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 06:07 PM

By all means, feel free to start a new thread for the Leica zoom. :)

#75 NewAstronomer

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 06:19 PM

Interesting eyepiece, the Docter 12.5. However I've read that it has "zero" lateral color and then another comment on the same eyepiece that it has 5% outer FOV lateral color. Question, was the moon viewed thru the eyepiece? If not, that is the actual "lateral color" test. I don't view Saturn near the edge of my FOV, but the moon certainly can get near it! :)


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