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Found in field: Astrola Cave 12 1/2" f/6 (I think)

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#51 CHASLX200

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 04:08 PM

All the parts on that found 12.5" Cave are not even close to the parts on my now sold 1967 10" F/8 Cave, even the mount has many changes.

Chas

#52 rlinsocal

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 08:00 PM

All the parts on that found 12.5" Cave are not even close to the parts on my now sold 1967 10" F/8 Cave, even the mount has many changes.

Chas

meaning what? its a fake?

#53 Greg Keys

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 08:26 PM

Not a fake, just a lot of changes over the years as far as tube material, changes in mounts, etc. Off hand, I suspect it is a later made Cave rather than an earlier one. Careful examination will give up the answers :)

#54 Greg Keys

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 08:26 PM

Not a fake, just a lot of changes over the years as far as tube material, changes in mounts, etc. Off hand, I suspect it is a later made Cave rather than an earlier one. Careful examination will give up the answers :)

#55 strdst

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:50 PM

While horseback riding my wife

:o

never said I could type :cool:

:rofl5: :rofl5: :rofl5:

#56 CHASLX200

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Posted 09 May 2010 - 06:09 AM

All the parts on that found 12.5" Cave are not even close to the parts on my now sold 1967 10" F/8 Cave, even the mount has many changes.

Chas


Not a fake that i can tell. Just that Cave made many changes over the years. I never have seen a Cave mirror cell like the one in the pic.

Chas
meaning what? its a fake?



#57 Datapanic

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Posted 09 May 2010 - 05:48 PM

The 12.5" mirror cell had an 18-point flotation system which will make it look a little different than the smaller mirror cells. The larger mirror cells also had 6 bolts to mount it to the tube as opposed to 3 on the smaller models.

#58 Fred Ley

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Posted 09 May 2010 - 09:59 PM

I have been following this posting with great interest. It is a shame that the telescope was tossed out, but great that it was rescued. I have at times wondered how many old telescopes may have been literally thrown into a garbage fill.
One does not see many of the older telescopes at events or on the internet. I am certain that the combined sales of Edmund, Criterion, Star Liner, Cave, Telescopics, etc. must have been numerous over the years back then. Would be nice to know where they all are.

#59 rlinsocal

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:00 AM

If anyone local is interested in this scope let me know, thought hard over the weekend but my life is just way to busy these days with teenagers to take on another project. But I want it going to someone who cares. pm me.

#60 WaterMaster

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:17 AM

Sure wish I was local. :( I'm also sure you'll have no shortage of folks lining up!

Thanks for rescuing this old beauty!

#61 rlinsocal

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 11:17 AM

Sure wish I was local. :( I'm also sure you'll have no shortage of folks lining up!

Thanks for rescuing this old beauty!

as long as it gets into good hands...and the thx goes to the wife, always looking down..

#62 tim53

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 12:32 PM

I would, if I didn't have so many scopes already (too many unfinished, in fact!). Have you decided on a price?

-Tim

#63 Datapanic

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 01:38 PM

It's too bad the mirror is not etched with the Cave info - maybe you should double check the edge of the mirror again? It is sometimes hard to see the etch markings, depending on the light.

I'm kinda interested in restoring it (Tucson is only 8 hours from LA) but if it's not a Cave mirror, then the telescope as a whole has less nostalgic and monetary value and although it might turn out to be a very nice instrument, the effort, time and money involved to get it to like-new condition might not be worth the awestruck impact that a Cave Telescope would normally bring forth. Sorry I can't word this better, just my opinion :)

#64 reddog15

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 01:45 PM

I,m with Dan,check the mirror,I for one would like to see this restored by Dan :cool:

#65 tim53

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 01:47 PM

Dan:

Good point. I couldn't see the writing on the side of my 8" mirror until I took it out of the cell. The engraving was pretty faint, and completely invisible looking between the mirror and cell, even though I could see that part of the mirror before I took it out.

I also wonder if later Caves may not have all been engraved?

-Tim.

#66 rlinsocal

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 02:40 PM

well I have to use your inputs as good info as I know nothing about these things, in reviewing the Yahoo group, they also say that Cave used "other mirrors". So if without the "cave" mirror its not worth the time maybe I should part it out?

#67 Datapanic

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 02:52 PM

My 75 mirror is clearly marked and very easy to see, but the 77 mirror, which is also bevel shaped, has very light markings and you have to look at it just right to even see it.

Indications are this is probably a 77-79 Cave based on the fiberlite/cardboard tube. Who knows what may have been going on at Cave Optical near the end. If this was one of the last 12.5's made (and due to it's size, it could be), then it could have been rushed out the door without markings. Or maybe it was ordered without the mirror or Cave outsourced the mirror? I wouldn't rule out that the mirror is an un-engraved Cave, but without a history, nobody knows, except for maybe McGrath!

#68 Bonco

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 03:07 PM

My 1973 Cave 10 had no markings anywhere on the mirror.
Bill

#69 rlinsocal

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 03:11 PM


Indications are this is probably a 77-79 Cave based on the fiberlite/cardboard tube.

that is the tube, cardboard covered in fiberglass inside and out.

#70 Datapanic

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 03:35 PM

well I have to use your inputs as good info as I know nothing about these things, in reviewing the Yahoo group, they also say that Cave used "other mirrors". So if without the "cave" mirror its not worth the time maybe I should part it out?


It would be a shame if it was parted out only later to find out it was 100% Cave - I'm for not parting it out!

#71 tim53

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 04:29 PM



Indications are this is probably a 77-79 Cave based on the fiberlite/cardboard tube.

that is the tube, cardboard covered in fiberglass inside and out.


I'm betting that it's a late Cave, then. I worked at Meade Instruments during 78-79, when the owner succeeded in his multi-year mission to put Cave out of business. Toward the end, Parks wasn't selling tubes to Cave because Cave couldn't pay up front for them. Meade knew that Cave was still selling scopes, so they asked me to check out an ad for a moped for sale by one of the Cave employees at the shop. And they asked me to snoop around to see what Cave was using for tubes.

They asked me, because they didn't know me at Cave, whereas my coworkers had been recently hired away from Cave.

When I went there, I pretended to be interested in the moped for a while, then asked "what do you guys make here, anyway?" and got a tour of the facility. There wasn't much going on, but in one room was a bunch of tubes of different materials in various stages of finish. Some cardboard with fiberglass, some with various paints, some rolled sheet metal (galvanized steel, aluminum). No fiberglass from Parks, though.

I even remember hearing a story about a customer complaining about the corrugated metal tube on his 12.5" right before Cave went under. At least he got his scope! There were some who were left without their deposit after the business folded.

I can't be certain, but I seem to recall Ed Beck (former Cave optician who later went into business for himeslf as "Enterprise Optics") telling me that not all mirrors were signed, perhaps especially toward the end.

And it's certainly possible that other manufacturers were providing Cave with mirrors. Meade probably didn't, but Coulter might have (they made some decent optics in those days). Coulter made some mirrors for Meade, in fact. Parks also made mirrors at the time, and still does. Both companies were "local" to Cave.

Even if it's not a Cave mirror, it could be a good one.

-Tim.

#72 albert1

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 04:53 PM

I'm for not parting it out too.

Last summer I found a 12.5 Cave Observatory model in an old barn in upstate New York. I had hopes of keeping it but had limited space and really no time to spend on a restoration it needed and certainly deserved. Since then, it has found its way to a great guy in Texas who fully restored it back to its original majesty. He is a very experienced observer and has told me he is getting the best views of Mars he has ever seen in all his years. He's very happy. Did I mention the mirror had NO identifying markings on it?

#73 clintwhitman

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 11:46 PM

Well darn! I have had my hands on 7 Cave Astrolas and all of them were signed by Toms dad. Also my 10" f8 and the three mirrors I have in a box 1972 6" WFT, 1969 8" F8 and a 1958 8" f6. So I am 11 for 11 all eched by the same hand, Tom Sr.
I am going to look at a 16" f8 in two weeks. The owner may want me to help restore it. I will look but the new owner said it was made in 1968 so it must be marked..
(aveman

#74 Datapanic

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 12:31 AM

How do you tell if it was signed by Tom Sr. or Tom Jr? I have seen two different etchings - Case Sensitive and ALL CAPS.

#75 WaterMaster

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 09:58 AM

I'm almost there...

Had a short conversation with my better half last night about this, and she suggested I could probably get my brother-in-law to pick it up (I'm still a little stunned about this :lol: ).

Do I want to take on a restoration project? Is it worth it if we don't know the specifics of the optics? Is it one more step into madness:question:

Chime in guys! Somebody talk me into or out of it. :grin:


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