445 replies to this topic

[bjkaras]

Circle K-This one I have a lot of trouble with. Before CN, I had a circle K telescope that had a manual with it, for the telescope, that was Vixen. Vixen was Koyu before Vixen. I believe those Vixen employees came from another optical house, just can't remember which one. Then came a bunch of peopple insisting Circle K was Pentax. Now, Circle K is Kenko. But KOL, King Optical, is also Circle K. So, make up your own mind. Here are some circle K's.

I sometimes gas up my car at Circle K.

[clamchip]

Anyone know who circle M is? it's an oval with M.

 

Robert

[Kasmos]

Anyone know who circle M is? it's an oval with M.

 

Robert

My C8 came with a eye piece marked like that

 

Andy who sells a bunch of stuff once said it stands for Moriya on one he was selling, but I always thought that was just on the passed stickers?

Edited by Kasmos, 30 January 2024 - 02:05 PM.

[Kasmos]

Turns out I saved the ad since it seemed a bit questionable.

 

Cropped ad with the important part.

 

[clamchip]

Interesting the circle M is a mystery trademark.

My 1979 C5 has a circle M on both of its Celestron .965" eyepieces, and the 5X24 finder is circle dash (Carton).

I have a loose orange C8 6X30 with circle M.

I noticed circle M was asked about in this list before but no response was found. It must be after circle T (Towa) and

before circle V (Vixen) with a little circle dash (Carton) sprinkled in there.

 

Robert

[clamchip]

Turns out I saved the ad since it seemed a bit questionable.

 

Moriya 12mmEP.jpg

Cropped ad with the important part.

Andy knows eyepieces maybe it is Moryia, who ever that is.

 

Robert

[clamchip]

Blake also mentions Moryia for circle M in here under 1977-1981:

https://www.cloudyni...eline-research/

 

Robert

Edited by clamchip, 30 January 2024 - 02:25 PM.

[MiraS]

I'm asking myself the same question. It's smaller but heavier than the 9mm Vixen Ortho I also have.

 

Link to the eyepiece forum where I asked about that. I'm not sure it's Mizar because I see many Mizar eyepieces and they all have Mizar written on them and not just a symbol.

 

https://www.cloudyni...le-m-ortho-096/

 

 

Edited by MiraS, 30 January 2024 - 02:32 PM.

[clamchip]

Now that one is a true circle M, I'm wondering about the oval M. 

I should make that clear because it can make a difference with these trademark symbols.

I see no reference to "circle" M either.

 

Robert

Edited by clamchip, 30 January 2024 - 02:32 PM.

[Eric Drum]

Sorry if binoculars are an unwelcome diversion from telescopes and eyepieces.

I have seen this Japanese Symbol a few times on auction listings:

OoO

0o0

θo0

θoO

⊘○⭕

Looks like a screwhead ...

Brand in this case is Cartex, often associated with Zenith.

The marking is located where the JB code normally is.

There is no associated JE code.

Closest match I see already in this thread is Riken.

OIO

Edited by Eric Drum, 01 April 2024 - 08:12 AM.

[Eric Drum]

Another Japanese binocular marking

OMC

⊖︎MC

Cavalier 8 x 30 Binoculars - Field 7.5°

 

Edited by Eric Drum, 15 April 2024 - 11:32 PM.

[ErnH2O]

Another Japanese binocular marking

OMC

⊖︎MC

Cavalier 8 x 30 Binoculars - Field 7.5°

 

I didn't find it in this list, but I'm old and easily distracted, so it may be there.

https://www.miniatur...rt8/Page538.htm

 

Regards,

Ern

[Eric Drum]

I didn't find it in this list, but I'm old and easily distracted, so it may be there.

https://www.miniatur...rt8/Page538.htm

 

Regards,

Ern

Thanks, Ern. I don't think I had found that page. The site uses images of text, which defeats searches.

No, I don't see 'OMC' even in there.

 

However it did serendipitously answer the question that brought me back here.

 

I was trying to find out if Nikon ever used <NKK>, which would fit with Nippon Kogaku Kogyo.

I found a 'History of Nikon' by Hans Braakhuis with these:

 

Your link shows <NKK> as a mark of 'Nashin Optical Industry Co Ltd' which is possibly known to binophiles as JB119 'Nisshin Kogaku Kogyo Co. Ltd., Tokyo' ?

Edited by Eric Drum, 21 April 2024 - 10:14 AM.

[Eric Drum]

Found another 'OMC' branded 'Kenlock'.

[Cavs56]

I purchased this to make a 40mm finder. It has a circle V V. I hav see one other in this thread. It is not a circle W like a few Jason’s that are mentioned. Anyway I wonder if anyone ever figured out who made it. Aluminum tube all metal focuser. Objectives are coated. They are not glued they must have a spacer  they are loose when unscrewed from the tube.

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[deSitter]

Here's a new one to me - diamond TJK - on some binoculars that appear to be from the late 60s-early 70s.

 

https://www.cloudyni...-model-67-7032/

 

-drl

[kjkrum]

A couple people have asked about circle-KC but I didn't see any answers. I found the same symbol on the zoom lens of a Scope 2530 20-60x60. I don't see any maker's marks on the other components.

[galakuma]

It's trademark of Kanagawa Optical Industries Co.

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Edited by galakuma, 09 September 2024 - 07:01 AM.

[Voilam]

Thannk for usefull information here,

Recently I get a classic scope with manual, but it seem not show any date of production ?!

 

Could you guest or get to know how old is this model KOL ?

 

[Werckmeister]

I've been doing some research on ATCO and found its trademark. The application has become Takehiko Yamada. Takehiko Yamada was the president of Columbia Optical Co., Ltd. and the president of Taiyo Shokai Co., Ltd. It is unknown which company used ATCO, but I believe it was Taiyo Shokai Co., Ltd.
The business of Taiyo Shokai Co., Ltd. is the export of optical-related machinery.
ATCO's filing date is May 13, 1957, and its publication date is October 28, 1957.

A Taiyo telescope recently came my way. It bears a circle T mark....sorry
 

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Edited by Werckmeister, 04 December 2024 - 12:02 PM.

[semlin]

here is an alternate history for atco, courtesy of miniaturebinoculars.com.  i find that site to be pretty reliable, especially on trademark and other registration history.   i do not doubt there was a japanese registration of the brand also, but i suspect it was by a company manufacturing for or exporting to the us atco entity.  there is no way the japanese atco brand holder could have sold into the us market using that brand without the permission of the us trademark owner.

 

https://www.miniatur...om/page0026.htm

 

"* ATCO binoculars marking= American Thermoware Co
* Atco binoculars note: US design trademark #72075964 holder 1960-2001 for binoculars, opera glasses, and lots of other things was American Thermoware Co 12-16 Warren St, NYC NY, USA, with ATCO word trademark in 1924 with 1st use claimed 1915"

[semlin]

as for the taiyo telescope that seems to be clearly a towa circle t mark so i think the taiyo is just a brand.  many japanese companies  sold optics sold by others under their own brand names.

 

there was also a binocular maker named taiyo, jb110.  the 1959 japanese binocular manufacturer list published by peter abrams lists the contact for that taiyo as a mr. soneda so it may be a different company using the taiyo brand.  i own a taiyo binocular and it is very nice quality.

 

taiyo kogaku seisakujo

aka taiyo optical co.

2-5897, tokiwadai, itabashi-ku, tokyo    (96) 3701   
t. soneda

[semlin]

i thought a summary of some of the issues to consider when identifying who made japanese optics might be helpful.

 

when looking at marks and brands on older japanese optics you have to distinguish between brands, importers, japanese exporters and the actual makers.  if possible you also want to drill into the idea of maker and look at who made the optics and who did the assembly and made the hardware since they are not necessarily the same.

 

sometimes brands overlap and sometimes they do not.  i find it  helpful to look at binoculars to sort it out because they were more closely regulated than telescopes and scopes and they used a "jb/je" marking system from 1959 into the 1970s which definitively identifies the binocular body maker and "final maker" and can be used to cross-identify maker marks with certainty as well as confirm or refute associations between brands and makers.  this helps with telescopes quite often and at least tells you how things worked there.

 

the other advantage with binoculars is that exporter marks were clearly differentiated from maker marks by a diamond cartouche around them.  

 

the brand on the optic can be many things such as:

 

-the brand of a company in the country of sale such as a department store like sears or wards in the us, which sold optics made, exported from japan and imported by others under their own name.

 

-a house brand of a company in the us, such as tower and adams, under which sears and wards sold optics made, exported and imported by others in the 1950s and early 1960s. hy-score is another example.  it was an s.e. laszlo house brand originally for air rifles that was then also used for goto telescopes and then for binoculars.  se laszlo was an importer/wholesaler/catalog sales company based in new york.

 

-a confusiname, most typically from the canadian market, by which an importer pretended japanese optics were made in germany.  a well known example is carl wetzlar, a portmanteau of "carl zeiss" and "wetzlar" which was a major optics making centre in germany.  there are many of them.  "

 

-a fake japanese house brand under which a us importer sold optics made by multiple makers, such as yoshida, a house brand of se laszlo under which optics by multiple japanese makers were sold.

 

-an importer of optics in the country of sale that sells optics in its own name, like tasco or bushnell and swift.   early on these optics were exported from japan by japanese companies like toyo jitsyugo kogaku and hence are marked <tjk> or <otc>.  the actual optics were made by many makers.  

 

-both an importer and exporter, like bushnell and swift became in the later 1950s, when they formed bushnell optical labs and swift international in japan as japanese companies to export optics to themselves.   so far as i know neither bushnell nor swift ever made an optic but they did become very involved in design at this time and afterwards leading to the swift audubon and bushnell custom and "batwing" rangemaster binocular models as well as he famous unique swift/ telescope line.

 

-the japanese exporter's own brand, such as vixen, eikow, or belmont.  vixen sold optics under their own brand made by others including all of their binoculars for many years.

 

- the actual maker's brand, like nikon or kowa. with early examples marked with an "ep" export mark that may have been generic.  some exporters like tjk opened their own factories and made their own optics as well as exporting others.  it is likely that vixen did this with telescopes.

 

- the brand of a maker selling someone else's product under their name, like asahi pentax or yashica, which for many years sold binoculars under their brand name actually made by other makers.

 

a mark or letter code on an optic can identify one of the following

 

-the importer, especially with serial number formats

-the exporter (usually an acronym in a diamond for binoculars but not necessarily in telescopes)

-the maker of the finished product (especially pretty much any stylized symbol or mark)

-the materials maker (all "je" marks on binoculars signify the body maker as distinct from the final maker)

 

finally, there are the materials / optics components maker.  this can be extremely difficult to identify.  

 

the abrams history of japanese binocular makers tells us the "je" mark on a binocular made the bodies but what that means is ambiguous and it seems to go deeper than just casting a particular body.   similarly there is plenty of evidence that older telescopes were made of parts from multiple small makers.

 

with certain binocular model the optics appear to follow the body maker mark not the "maker" mark across brands.  an example would be the extra wide angle 7x35 binocular body style by je32 that miyako sold as a finished product by miyako and other "jb" makers in seemingly identical form.  

 

as another example, pentax binoculars in the 1960s all had a bold amber coating resembling the smc coatings used on their cameras, but, according to the jb/je#s, asahi did not make those binoculars.  moreover, identical binoculars made by the same makers but without the coatings were sold under other brands.  thus it seems likely asahi supplied the optics for those binoculars but was not a maker.

 

another example i can give of this is in spotting scopes.  the optics of the meade rg eyepieces and the older kowa/bushnell/wards spectator/bausch & lomb balscope senior and mirador spotting scopes are all identical.  the eyepiece bodies and focal lengths are the same, the objective cells on many of the scopes appear to be the same and the scopes share common focal lengths and focus mechanisms.  thus it is likely that someone, most likely kowa, made the optics trains for all of them.  however, that does not mean kowa made them all as opposed to supplying the optics components and nor does it mean they all had the same coatings. 

[hasebergen]

https://www.cloudyni...ols/?p=13832943

 

Hi Werckmeister,

 

this is the Towa 339, aka Taco 10/15K, Jupiter, Meade 300. Good Optics, adequate mount but cruel stand ...

 

Look here (in German) http://www.amateuras...01200/index.htm

 

best regards Hannes

[Werckmeister]

@Semlin https://www.cloudyni...#entry13833290 
Thank you for the elaborate picture you painted of post-WWII Japanese enterpise! A time of growth and rapid changes. To unravel this knot of countless enterprises, collaborations and changing products....

@ Hasebergen https://www.cloudyni...7#entry13834277

Incredible, you are dead on. I only have the ota, but the fotos of your telescope and all the details fit exactly. That you identified my Taiyo from this single foto is quite remarcable! 
Greetings
André