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Is it the atmosphere or my LASIK eyes?

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#1 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 09:18 PM

New to astronomy after many years of hiatus, so I have a question:

I just had LASIK surgery about a month ago and my starbursts are much better. I'm still wearing very low power distance glasses but after one more surgery those will go away.

Problem is that I can't tell what is normal and what isn't so can you experts out there give me a reality eye check?

Here's the questions:

1. I went out the other night with my binoculars (great pair, though forgot the name, wife just got them for me) but they have all the latest stablizing chips, etc. In any case, I looked at Jupiter the other night (in Chicago) on a nice clear night. I was expecting to see a nice round image. Instead I saw a swirling image that I couldn't get to look still and perfect. Is this atmosphere or my LASIK troubles? Its awful not to trust your eyes. Hopefully my LASIK will calm down and get better (doc says it will). So what should I be seeing from an urban backyard on a typical clear night in the spring what I described ( a swirl) or a nice round object? Thanks. Steve :)

#2 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 09:26 PM

I haven't had LASIK done, but I've had corneal scarring from an injury. It took a long time (years) before streetlights stopped being blobular.

I presume that it would be similar for corneal surgery. Also the effect would be more pronounced when your irises were open all the way. Check w/ your ophthalmologist to ensure that your lasik treatment extends outwards for the full extent of your pupil.

I'd be interested in what you find, 'cuz I'm contemplating corrective surgery.

--B

#3 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:42 PM

Hi MBMPro

1) how high was Jupiter on the sky by the time you observed it?

2) What kind of image stabilized bino you're using? What is it's power?

My sister went through LASIK last year and after about a week she was seeing things perfectly - she was just 24 then - AFAIK I've heard people recovering completely from LASIK in up to 5-6 months.


#4 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 03:11 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that, for those of you considering LASIK, you might consider holding off for a bit longer.

A relatively new technique has been under development and FDA testing for a few years now called "Corneaplasty™." Whereas LASIK uses a laser to remove tissue from under the cornea, Corneaplasty will sculpt the cornea with the temporary application of an enzyme and corrective contact lenses. I won't get into the myriad details, but in the end, 20/20 vision or better (possibly up to 20/10) is expected, with no scarring or tissue loss/removal, and the procedure can probably be repeated later in life if/when vision deteriorates again.

Here's a link to a FAQ page for the procedure. It almost sounds too good to be true-- though I fervently hope it's not, because I'm waiting for FDA approval and procedure availability myself: http://www.supervisi...orneaplasty.htm

#5 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 09:26 AM

Jupiter was high in the sky, at least 60 degrees up from the horizon, so atmospheric blur from being low on the horizon I would assume would be nill. The binoculars are battery powered and that is a good point. I'll try changing the batteries. But what SHOULD it look like? I never remember seeing anything move like that and not be a relative clear circle with my old 4" reflector, for instance.

By the way, its been about 2 months since my LASIK.

Thanks for your help.

#6 gatorengineer

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:45 PM

I had Lasik with Intralase done by supposedly one of the best, Kremer in Philly. My eyes were back to good enough for bino astronomy pretty quick 1-2 months, Only recently however do naked eye stars really look like stars.

#7 btschumy

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:53 PM

But what SHOULD it look like? I never remember seeing anything move like that and not be a relative clear circle with my old 4" reflector, for instance.



The relatively low power of binoculars is going to result in a bright Jupiter image, much brighter than typical telescopes yield. This can cause any abberations in you eyes to be accentuated, even normal abberations. I have never looked at Jupiter in binoculars with less than 20x and seen it as a perfect disk. There is alway some flaring and distortion.

I think you may be expecting too much too soon after the LASIK. Give things a couple of months to settle down. Even then you can't expect too much from low power, short focal ratio systems with something that bright.

#8 pcad

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 05:50 PM

Hi Steve,

Patience, patience, patience! You just had surgery on your eyes. I work in a practice which does a lot of lasik surgery. Everyone is a little different. Some have better results than others, some heal faster than others. It's way to soon to draw any conclusions about your eventual vision. You have to trust your doctor since he/she is in the best position to advise you.

I will try to address some of your concerns/questions.

First you mention that you're seeing better than before, but are expecting to have an enhancement procedure. This is very common esp. when the patient has a large prescription before surgery. Once the cornea stabilizes after the first treatment, the amount of tissue removed in the enhancement is small and the result is generally more predictable and stable than the first treatment. You won't get your final result until you heal completly from the enhancement.

At one month post-op there are healing issues as well. "Dry eyes" are often assoc. with the post-op period. This occurs because in the process of creating the "flap", some of the corneal nerves may be severed. This causes decreased sensitivity to irritation from dryness and less tearing. This is why your doctor stressed the use of artificial tears or lubricating drops. These nerve endings will heal with time but some recover faster, some slower.

This "dryness" affects the patients vision. The surface of the cornea is NOT the refractive surface of the eye. The refractive surface is the tear film. When the eye is dry there's no telling what type of vision the patient will have. You NEED a good tear film to get your best vision.

Another consideration is that your eyes effectivly have a new Rx. In some cases people have adjustment periods even when being given a new pair of glasses much less lasik surgery.

So, keep your chin up! It'll be easier to get your eye drops in and you'll be looking at the sky.

Best of luck with your surgery, I'm sure the best is yet to come.

Peter

#9 brocknroller

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:52 PM

The relatively low power of binoculars is going to result in a bright Jupiter image, much brighter than typical telescopes yield. This can cause any abberations in you eyes to be accentuated, even normal abberations. I have never looked at Jupiter in binoculars with less than 20x and seen it as a perfect disk. There is alway some flaring and distortion.


I have found just the opposite, Jupiter was a clean disk in my Nikon 8X32 SE, Nikon 7X35 WF, and Fujinon 6X30 FMTR-SX, but was a multicolored smudge in my 10X30 IS (Saturn was clean) and also in the Pentax 20X60 PCF V (all three samples -- only 3mm exit pupil, should have compensated for eye aberrations, although the ER is long enough to use my glasses). OTOH, I could distinguish the rings of Saturn from its disk with the 20X60s, as mentioned on another thread (never saw that in any other bin, although 20X80 is the largest I've used). The first Obie 15X70 I bought (1999/2000?) also produced a very smudgy Jupiter, the planet wasn't up when I had the second sample (2003 model), but it seemed to have better color correction than the earlier model.

So at least with my bins, I have generally found that magnification increases color distortion and thus distorts the shape of Jupiter. In my Celestron 10X50 ED, Jupiter is not as clean as the lower power SEs or Fujis, but fairly round and with less smudging than the IS or Pentax or Obie. With the IS, Jupiter wasn't very high in the sky, so that may have contributed to the distortion.

Of course, binoculars, even "big binoculars", aren't really meant to give more than a casual look at Jupiter, so Lasik surgery won't help! However, even a modest-sized (85mm) medium to long APO refractor yields a clean disk and reveals a level of detail that I find satisfying. With binoculars, I usually look for the positions of the four Galilean satellites.

#10 Pinewood

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 08:04 PM

Brock,

I too delight in looking for the Gallilean moons. Last Friday, the 16th, at 2130 EDT [April 17th 0130 GMT] I observed three moons to the East of Jupiter, but I thought that there may have been something to the west, but I did not really see anything. With an 30x spotting'scope, I found the fourth moon to the west. I always check a web site for the moons positions AFTER I observe. When I did, use the SKY AND TELESCOPE site for Jupiter's moons, everything matched.
I guess that this shows something about how we perceive things through a binocular.

Clear skies,
Arthur

#11 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 11:50 PM

Peter, thanks so much for the lucid and upbeat analysis of what is likely to come post Lasik. One of the best synposis I've read yet of recovery. Sorry it took a while to respond have not been on forum as of late (trying to earn a living!). Thanks again :) - Steve

#12 pcad

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 05:29 PM

Steve,

You're welcome.

It's been a couple of weeks, hope things are improving. Feel free to PM me with more questions if necessary.

Best of luck

Peter


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