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Barker's Quadrangle Location?

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#51 Jim Mosher

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 02:43 PM

Kerry,

Thank you for clarifying the rules.

I vaguely recall having once had Paolo's permission to use his images as illustrations, but am unable to locate it now or to include that prior permission in the posting. For what little it may be worth, it was indeed "the owner of the image" who sought comment in this forum about his image and the features it depicts, although he did not expressly give permission to make those comments graphically.

For the few who may be interested, here are the same lines that I had hoped to illustrate on the earlier attachment drawn on the Version 2 warped Clementine basemap from Map-a-Planet. The mosaic was prepared by the Astrogeology Branch of the US Geological Survey, a United States government agency, using images obtained from a Defense Department-funded mission. According to their website, the data used as the background for the present attachment are most likely in the public domain, unless there is a copyright restriction of which I am unaware. It has been remapped to a zero libration view, which can be superimposed on that previously posted, using LTVT.

-- Jim

Attached Thumbnails

  • 3997444-BarkersQuadrangle_Clementine.jpg


#52 Jim Mosher

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 10:01 AM

link to the attachment?

Mardi,

The time allowed for editing posts having expired, the earlier attachment you asked to see is included here.

Per the forum's Terms of Service, written permission to use the background photo (one of the finest high-sun amateur photos of Mare Crisium that I am aware of) is included in the present post as follows:

Re: Permission to use photo
Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:11 AM
From: "Paolo R. Lazzarotti" <paolo@deleted>
To: "Jim Mosher" <jimmosher@yahoo.com>
Message contains attachments
1 File (45KB)

Hello Jim,

Certainly you have my permission to use my image of Mare Crisium for your purpose.
Thank you for letting me know and for your choice, too!

Regards.

--

(((((((((((((((( O ))))))))))))))))
eng. Paolo R. Lazzarotti

On the Cutting Edge of the High Resolution

o http://www.lazzarotti-hires.com
(((((((((((((((( O ))))))))))))))))


The features that have been marked can be better distinguished on the original image. As previously indicated, Paolo provides a link to it here.

Best wishes seeing your Trapezium (B) at the eyepiece. It (and the many others) should be visible for the next few days.

-- Jim

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  • 3998925-marecrisium20090610_lazz_marked.jpg


#53 C_Moon

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 11:05 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw the Quadrangle tonight. Best way to describe it was that it looked like the page from A Survey of the Moon posted above. I could not see it very well at 50x, but it was very obvious to me at 100x and was definitely visible at higher mags (I only went up to 266x). At the lower powers it seemed that there was a white outline tracing the shape of the quadrangle with craters at the corners. At higher mags more craterlets were visible in the vicinity.

#54 Carl Kolchak

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:58 AM

I wish I could just see the Moon... :( I have nothing but clouds and rain for a few weeks now.

peace & clear skies,

#55 John_Moore

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:40 AM

Hate to rub it in Richard, however, it was a beautiful night here in Ireland (26 Aug 2010), and so clear that it was hard to resist taking a couple of photos.

While the picture below was mainly concerned with the 'string-of-pearl' craters on the terminator, one couldn't notice a 'trapezium'-like feature on the southern end of Crisum (just about seen in the picture).

Of course, awareness of such a feature, as talked about here in the forum, may have biased one's mind into thinking that it was Barker's Quad., for definite. However, trying hard not to be swayed in that direction, the feature in southern Crisium certainly was a candidate not to be overlooked. I wonder would the so-called 'Barker's Quadrangle' be best seen at terminator times of around a ~ 17-day-old moon rather than during a full moon period?
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#56 BKBrown

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 01:49 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw the Quadrangle tonight. Best way to describe it was that it looked like the page from A Survey of the Moon posted above. I could not see it very well at 50x, but it was very obvious to me at 100x and was definitely visible at higher mags (I only went up to 266x). At the lower powers it seemed that there was a white outline tracing the shape of the quadrangle with craters at the corners. At higher mags more craterlets were visible in the vicinity.


I took this image on Thursday morning (Day 16)...is this what you saw? Clear Skies, BrianB

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  • 4009591-Barkers Quadrangle_082610.jpg


#57 C_Moon

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 01:04 AM

I'm pretty sure I saw the Quadrangle tonight. Best way to describe it was that it looked like the page from A Survey of the Moon posted above. I could not see it very well at 50x, but it was very obvious to me at 100x and was definitely visible at higher mags (I only went up to 266x). At the lower powers it seemed that there was a white outline tracing the shape of the quadrangle with craters at the corners. At higher mags more craterlets were visible in the vicinity.


I took this image on Thursday morning (Day 16)...is this what you saw? Clear Skies, BrianB


Yes, that's it!

Great shot :waytogo:

#58 BKBrown

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:05 PM

Thanks Paul. This is my current leading candidate for the BQ based on what little there seems to be to go by. While there is plenty of latitude for discussion and lots of interesting possibilities in the neighborhood, this is the second time I have imaged the configuration you see...clearly it repeats regularly and in aspect looks like a geometric figure. No doubt others will weigh in on this... that is what makes the game fun.
Clear Skies, BrianB

#59 C_Moon

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 09:30 PM

Thanks Paul. This is my current leading candidate for the BQ based on what little there seems to be to go by. While there is plenty of latitude for discussion and lots of interesting possibilities in the neighborhood, this is the second time I have imaged the configuration you see...clearly it repeats regularly and in aspect looks like a geometric figure. No doubt others will weigh in on this... that is what makes the game fun.
Clear Skies, BrianB


Agreed, I'm anxious to see what others think.

Here's the link to the book page that was listed awhile back:

http://www.nightskyj...ages/b_quad.jpg

I've been comparing your photo to the drawing from the book and I think they're of the same feature. The shape looks very similar. Also, in the book drawing there are four craterlets in a diamond shape above and to the left of craterlet #4 in the Quadrangle. I believe I can also see them in your photo in the same relative position.

#60 Jim Mosher

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 02:02 PM

Brian,

After much searching, UK amateur Phil Morgan has located Barker's original description of his trapezium-shaped feature in southern Mare Crisium. It was indeed the rectangular system of bright ridges boxed in your photo.

I'm not sure modern high resolution photos confirm Barker's belief that there are continuous ridges along all four sides, but there is little doubt what he was trying to depict. The lighting at the time of his November 22, 1934 observation was, incidentally, very similar to Consolidated Lunar Atlas plate D2, in which Mardi's smaller trapezium of craterlets (1, 2, 3 and 8? in Barker's chart) is nicely visible.

Barker also sketched and called attention to a diamond shaped pattern of ridges to the west of his "trapezium" -- presumably the one that Mike mentioned based on my mistaken reading of Wilkins and Moore (where it is labeled "X").

Phil has prepared a short article for the September BAA Lunar Section Circular (should appear soon).

-- Jim

#61 BKBrown

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:27 PM

Thank you Jim, that is very gratifying to hear. This has been an extremely interesting thread and it has motivated me to start trying to image more of these (often) semi-mythical "lunarisms". I think the exchange that has taken place is a fine blueprint for our little on-line community to follow as we pursue more of these features. Thank you again for the feedback, I look forward to seeing the BAA article.
Clear Skies, BrianB

#62 Jim Mosher

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 01:56 PM

I look forward to seeing the BAA article.


I see Phil also published something in the September 2010 issue (4 MB PDF) of ALPO's The Lunar Observer. It may be the same.

-- Jim


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