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Ready to purchase - Orion 20x80 or 25x100?

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#1 Apracticalguy

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 01:01 PM

I've narrowed my bino choices and purchase down to Orion...not sure which power would be appropriate....could use some help....please give me some pros and cons of each power

Note: As of now - I have nothing to begin my new ASTRO viewing career!

I've confirmed these binos have Japanese Optics!

Thanks :jump: :confused:

#2 Craig Simmons

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 01:32 PM

The 25x100 will provide better contrast the 20X, see deeper, but narrower FOV and need solid mounting. 20X80 will have a wider FOV and need solid mounting but not as much as the 25x100s.

#3 Ronny Floyd

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 02:53 PM

Do you already have a mount ? I own the Orion Explorer 25x100's and they will require a pretty substantial mount.
Also,scopestuff.com sells an extension for the centerpost that will raise the binos up a little more from the mount head so you can better adjust the IPD distance....highly recommended !

I really like these bino's alot,I use mine as much in the day as I do at night.You may want to look into mounting a small red dot type finder on the bino,it helps a great deal with the whole aiming process.

Feel free to ask me any questions regarding my setup.

#4 Apracticalguy

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 03:04 PM

I have a heavy Benbo tripod equiped with a Bogen 3265 grip action ball head...use it full time with my Bronica Sq-Ai....so I think I'm ok with the weight of the 25x100's

I may have to purchase a different tripod head....!

#5 Ronny Floyd

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 03:15 PM

The bogen 501 head gets a very frequent nod of approval here on the bino forum.I am enjoying mine a great deal.

#6 Apracticalguy

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 03:16 PM

I may order the Orion Paragon Plus mount...not sure yet....I have not seen or used this mount...does anyone use this mount....what has been your experience...would you recommend this purchase....?

Thanks again

#7 Ronny Floyd

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 03:35 PM

Check out the "best of" thread here on the bino forum.There is a ton of info archived for just about anything bino related.This is where I did all of my research before buying.I don't think there is a better place on the internet.

#8 EdZ

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 05:56 PM

This is the Orion XHD Paragon Tripod and Head. It's the Tiffen Davis and Sanford Provista with the D&S F12 head.


http://www.adorama.c...d F12&item_no=1

I own both the D&S F12 head and the Orion Paragon. There is only one difference. The D&S head mounts to a 3/8" thread bolt, the Orion Paragon mounts to a 1/4" thread bolt.

I've used both Orion Paragons, the XHD (strudier) and the HD-F2 (2-3" taller). While I would consider the XHD tripod sufficient to carry a 10# binocular, I would not consider the Paragon head (D&S F12) rated for 10#. You could use it, but I consider these binoculars beyond the rating for this head. For instance the Bogen 3130 head is rated for 13.3#. I consider that head under-rated for a 10# binocular. The D&S F12 head cannot comfortably carry as much load as a Bogen 3130.

The Paragon XHD would probably do fine with the 7# 20x80s. You might appreciate the wider filed of view in the 20x80s.

I don't think either of those binocs are made in Japan. I think only the Megaviews and the Little Giants are made in Japan.

edz

#9 AJTony

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:46 PM

Any binocular that can see the two main equatorial belts on Jupiter is the way to go. Therefore, I would choose the 25 X 100.

AJ

#10 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 07:26 PM

I suggest the 25x100 bins as well. Bigger is better. But please note that your FOV will be smaller with the higher magnification. If you're ok with that, then get the 25x100 bins. And you'll need a good tripod/head, as many others have mentioned. I suggest that if your budget will allow, don't go cheap with a tripod/head product. Get the very best you can...and that's typically Bogen/Manfrotto hardware according to the general wisdom around here.

#11 EdZ

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 08:33 AM

Any binocular larger than 10x50 (OK maybe larger than 12x50) can see the two main belts on Jupiter.

There is a big difference in the size of these binoculars. 25x100 is NOT a grab and go binocular. You need a far more substantial mount and it is not something you can leave set up by the door ready to go out. If this is your first big binocular, I would not recommend getting a 25x100.

That Bogen 3265 grip action ball head would be severely under-rated for either of these binoculars. It's only rated for <6#. When using binoculars pointed up at an angle of 60-75°, about the most you'd be able to hang off that ball head would be maybe 4#. For a 10# binocular, you really need a head rated for 15#.

In my opinion, you're not looking at tripods that are capable of mounting a 25x100. You think you are buying Japanese binoculars. And you don't realize how big a 25x100 binocular is. For all of those reasons, I would not recommend a 25x100.

edz



edz

#12 Erik D

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 09:31 AM

1. EdZ is correct. The Orion Explorer 20X80 and 25X100 are both made in China. The Megaview 15/20/30X80 is made in Japan. Price of the Megaviews range from $480-$500.

I checked out the 25X100 Explorer at the Orion Cupertion, CA store while on spring break last month. It was mounted on a Paragon Tripod and seem to work fine. The 25X100 on display was WAY OUT of collimation.... A casual glance showed the gutter of the bank building across the street clearly split in two. The Orion store manager was embarassed when I pointed it out to him but said that was the only pair in the store....

I highly recommend considering Oberwerks when you are shopping for Giant binos. Oberwerk specialize in BigBinos and you can speak directly with the owner/chief tech when you call..

The 25X100 is HUGE, close to 1.5 ft long. A Bogen 501 head would be a much better choice.

2. I have two 20X80 binos and a 25X100. I use my 20X80 LW a lot more than my 25X100s. I can see a VERY SLIGHT gain in star count on objects such as the double cluster when I switch to 25X100s. However, I see little difference viewing most other DSOs from my mag 4.5 sky.

I prefer using the wider FOV and much smalller/lighter package of the 20X80 LW on most nights. EdZ confirmed the 20X80 LW has ~3.7 deg FOV. Most 25X100s have 2.5-2.6 deg FOV. You can cover twice the sky with 3.7 deg FOV compared to 2.5 deg. The 3.6lb 20X80 LW can be mounted on almost any fluid head. You can alwyas upgrade to bigger binos later. I do expect to see 100mm or bigger binos with better optics/QC in the future.

Erik D

#13 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:53 AM

A lot of people have been telling me to buy a pair of binocular first before buying a telescope, since I'm new to Astronomy. I was looking at the Orion Explorer 25x100mm binocular and the other binocular I was looking at was the Fujinon 16x70mm. Which one should I buy?

#14 jdickson

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:56 AM

I've been mulling over upgrading my 15x70's and you make a good case for the Oberwerk 20x80 LW. That I can use my existing mount is a huge plus. Not a huge upgrade but a bit more contrast and a better quality bino would be nice.

#15 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 12:04 PM

The person at Orion told me the Explorer 25X100 was made in Japan and with all optics are from Japan.

#16 Apracticalguy

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 12:12 PM

Orion confirmed....the..."Explorer" binos are made in China....this is funny...because...on two previous occasions...Orion told me they are made in Japan...you're right...they're made in China.....

#17 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 12:51 PM

As a pair of binoculars that will supplement your telescope, meaning the binoculars will NOT be your primary instrument, I would not recommend buying 25x100. Those are way too big for that purpose. The 16x70 Fujinons are a much better choice between the two, but they could require using a tripod. I would also suggest going with something even smaller, like a pair of 10x50 bins.

#18 EdZ

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 01:37 PM

A lot of people have been telling me to buy a pair of binocular first before buying a telescope, since I'm new to Astronomy. I was looking at the Orion Explorer 25x100mm binocular and the other binocular I was looking at was the Fujinon 16x70mm. Which one should I buy?


I agree with NightWatch. The way I read this post you are brand new starting out. You don't have a telescope yet.

I take it you need to learn the sky. You need a 10x50 for that. Maybe a 12x50 that could be put on almost any lightweight mount. You do not need a $600 16x70 Fujinon as a first binocular. You certainly won't use a 25x100 to learn your way around.

Good chioces for a binocular that you will find useful to learn your way around and yet will last you a life time

Pentax PCF WP 10x50 or 12x50
Nikon ACTION EXTREME 10x50 or 12x50
Oberwerk Mariner 10x60

read the Minireviews

edz

#19 Erik D

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 01:47 PM

........ since I'm new to Astronomy. I was looking at the Orion Explorer 25x100mm binocular and the other binocular I was looking at was the Fujinon 16x70mm. Which one should I buy?


The Fuji 16X70 is the referenced standard for many experienced binocular astronomer in the under $1,000 price range. However, unless you have a need for waterproof, military spec astro binoculars I believe it's possible to spend much less for a pair of 15X70s or 20X80s these days and come very close to the optical performance of the Fujis.

Check the mini review section for detailed reports of the Fuji 16X70s.

I would NOT recommend the Orion 25X100 Explorer as your frist/only pair of astro bino. Think of them as a pair of 1.5 ft long, 100mm F4.5 telescopes(5 lbs X 2) bolted together. If you are new to astronomy you will have difficulty finding your way around. Viewing the night sky with a 25X scope with 2.5 deg field of view is quite different from the naked eye view.

New bino astronomers are much better off with a pair of inexpensive 15X70s with 4.3 deg FOV....You have enough aperture to see the dimmer objects but can cover nearly 3 times the sky area compared to 2.5 deg FOV.

Erik D

#20 Apracticalguy

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 01:50 PM

I am a NEWBIE and have not purchased a scope...learning the sky is more important to me....than...purchasing a scope....right away....Thanks Ed...

#21 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:26 PM

Thanks edz for the advice. Between the Nikon and the Pentax which one is a better binocular? Both the Nikon and the Pentax is about the same price except the Pentax have a nice $40 rebate.

#22 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:42 PM

Well according to the Pentax website the rebate expire on Dec 31, 2004. Opticsplanet forgot to take it off their website.

#23 EdZ

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:48 PM


READ THIS REVIEW TO MAKE THAT CHOICE.
http://www.cloudynig...ments/nikon.pdf

The Oberwerk 15x70 is another good choice, but now you are into mounted territory.

edz

#24 AJTony

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 08:56 PM

Sorry Ed,

I guess I spend too much time viewing in central New Jersey, where a good night is mag 3-4 sky. Last new moon I was in South Jersey (~5.5 mag night)working my way through the Coma/Virgo Messiers. When I turned to Jupiter, I was fascinated at how prominent the bands were. You got me thinking now, and the next good night I will try my lower power binos on Jupiter.

Thanks again,

AJ

#25 EdZ

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 10:43 PM

Well AJ,

I had to ask myself, am I just spouting off here, or can I really see that. So I took a few binocs outside tonight to try.

With 10x50 Nikon AE, Jupiter's two bands are not seen at all, but I thought I could see M66. With 12x50 Nikon AE, the bands are only suspected for moments, but I confirmed that I did see M66 with the 10x50s. I brought out my Oberwerk 15x70s and for brief periods I could see that what I suspected in the 12x50 were really the bands and M66 could be seen larger with a star involved. Finally in the 16x70 Fujinons, the bands were seen constant and not only M66 but also M65 was faint next to it.

So, I guess 15x or 16x is about the minimum to really see the bands of Jupiter.

edz


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