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Ready to purchase - Orion 20x80 or 25x100?

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#26 DJB

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 02:39 AM

Hi all,

That is correct. Made in China. When ORION sells the "SAME" type of bino for approx. 2X the price, rest assured it has been made in Japan.

I do have the Oberwerk 25x100mm made in China, and it's a beauty. The original 25x100mm from ORION was a disaster--about 2.5* off collimation. Couldn't believe what I was seeing or not--and it was a Christmas gift, no less! ORION stated that they would inspect collimation before shipping the unit. Unless something went terribly wrong in transit, and I surely doubt that, I don't know! I still support ORION, however. I have an ORION grab-an-go 10x50mm built in China. Satisfactory, but obviously not superlative.

I have several older JASON 7x35mm and 7x50mm binos and a BINOLUX UWA 7x50mm, all made in Japan; I really am impressed with the UWA FOV and use them frequently. I believe that they were the best of their day.

I have the original CELESTRON 20x80mm (long and heavy) bino, and I use these for solar viewing only.

I also have the Miyauchi 9.3* FOV 7x50mm which I purched from Kevin at Oberwerk. These are really a wonderful instrument, replacing my FUJINON FMT-SX 7x50mm bino that I intend to e-Bay soon.

You can't beat Japanese optics, for the most part. Sometimes, one can obtain a refined instrument manufactured in China, e.g., the Oberwerks. Thanks Kevin.

Dave.

#27 Apracticalguy

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 11:30 AM

Ed,

Any chance of starting a 'Made In" list...country of origins....a list of sorts would be very helful....at least it would put bino prices in perspective....

I would rather pay more than I planned...then less than I should...

Has always worked for me.....

Thanks

#28 Joe Ogiba

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 11:46 AM

Out of my four Pentax binoculars the two roof-prism models (DCF WP 8x42,DCF 9x63) are made in Japan and the two porro-prism models (PCF WP II 10x50, PCF 20x60) are made in China.

#29 EdZ

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 12:00 PM

Any chance of starting a 'Made In" list...country of origins....a list of sorts would be very helful....


I'd be glad to create a "best of" link to a post that anyone would like to create.

edz

#30 Apracticalguy

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 01:16 PM

I talked with Kevin at bigbinoculars.com....he's well informed and was very helpful...the Oberwerks 20x80 Deluxe II now have my attention...Ed - thank you for your assistance....always pointing me in the right direction....and....keeping me on track....

These seem to be apractical bino for a newbie..... :)

Are there any additional comments about the Oberwerk Deluxe II binos?

Thanks again
Apracticalguy

#31 rouseyfire

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 02:01 PM

Have had the 20x80 DeluxeII's for a couple of months. After minor collimation--love 'em! A little heavy but not bad--they work well with my 3130 fluid head. Very good workmanship and good optics. A nice choice.

#32 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 02:41 PM

I have a similar situation as Glenn. My deluxe II's needed some slight adjustments to achieve an acceptable conditional alignment when they first arrived. Since then, they have been my grab-n-go astronomy binocular setup. You can view a picture here. They feel good and are solidly constructed. I don't particularly care for the twist eye cups, but that's me. Not a big deal. I like the case too. It has been very nice to have when traveling. I wish one came with my BT100!

#33 Apracticalguy

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Posted 26 April 2005 - 04:05 PM

I pretty sure that I'll be ordering the Deluxe II binos tomorrow....anyone have any final thoughts or recommendations....these are a "Practical" purchase for Apracticalguy....

Thanks to everyone and Prof Ed
Apracticalguy

#34 Erik D

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 08:48 AM

I have two 20X80 binos but don't have first hand experience with the Oberwerk 20X80 DL2. The specs look good. It's waterproof, nitrogen filled and attractively priced. My only comment is that at 7 lbs it's rather heavy for a 20X80. My 20X80 LW is about 1/2 the weight and has ~0.5 deg wider FOV. On the other hand, perhaps the DL2 will have better color correction because of the triplet objectives.

Eye Relief of the DL2 is listed as 18mm. ER of the 80mm LW is listed 13mm but I am able to see the full FOV in the LW with my glasses on. At 3.6 lbs the 80 mm LW can be mounted on just about any tripod. I really enjoy packing it for terrestrial use as well. Dual 80mm spotting scopes bring objects up close and personal.....

Erik D

#35 Apracticalguy

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 06:25 PM

Let's keep this topic going!

#36 Joe Ogiba

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 06:52 PM

My Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe have stressed the tripod mount so much by the central focuser that it got too hard to focus so I removed the mount and plan on making a homemade setup to hold them on a mount. They focus like a dream now but I rest them on some foam on my 12" Helix Hercules Fork mount to view daytime objects. The new Oberwerk 20x80mm Deluxe II are $10 cheaper than the 2002 model and should be much better.

#37 Apracticalguy

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 07:28 PM

My order is going in soon for the 20x80 deluxe II Chime in if we've missed anything....

Thanks

#38 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 11:01 PM

I'm sure you'll be pleased with the deluxe II. It is the right size where it is reasonably portable (tripod/head included) and has good light grab.

#39 Apracticalguy

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:57 AM

We're getting close to placing an order....one more question/issue:

Center focus vs IF.....I wear glasses

Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe II = center focus....
Orion 20x80 Explorer = IF

This also leads to another question....are there any important pros/cons between these two bino models?

Thanks

#40 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 02:56 PM

I am not if there is a known issue with those that wear glasses to prefer center vs. IF. I could be wrong though...and let me add that I don't wear glasses.

I have never done a side-by-side comparison between these two bins...and I don't see a review for the Orion bins in the min-review section either...oddly. You want to go to excelsis.com to search for user comments.

#41 Apracticalguy

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 05:46 PM

My conclusion...."IF" is more suitable for astro viewing....seems this is one feature found on the more expensive binos.....

#42 Apracticalguy

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:45 PM

The Orion "Explorer" models are IF.....

#43 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 06:48 AM

You could be right about IF being better for astronomy in general, but because it "seems this is one feature found on the more expensive binos" is not a good observation to draw a conclusion like that from. I have heard on occassion that the IF is better, but I have yet to hear any solid, convincing arguments to back it up.

#44 chascar

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 08:02 AM

Individual focus offers several advantages first being the focus is not changed if you bump into the eyepieces and second it allows for a more precise focus especially if you are like myself with a slight diffrence in the vision of each eye, and conseqently the focus point for each eye. the same holds true for binoviewers. I could be wrong but that pprecission focus allows for proper merging of the individual images and resoloution of detail. Alot of great infor on binoviewers is available on todd gross' site and carries over to binocular applications as well.

#45 EdZ

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 08:08 AM

Individual focus offers several advantages first being the focus is not changed if you bump into the eyepieces and second it allows for a more precise focus especially if you are like myself with a slight diffrence in the vision of each eye, and conseqently the focus point for each eye. the same holds true for binoviewers. I could be wrong but that pprecission focus allows for proper merging of the individual images and resoloution of detail. Alot of great infor on binoviewers is available on todd gross' site and carries over to binocular applications as well.


My conclusion...."IF" is more suitable for astro viewing....seems this is one feature found on the more expensive binos.....




On good center focus binocular with a solid bridge, the focus is not changed no matter how hard you bump the eyepieces. No advantage to IF.

On any binocular, a slight difference in eyes is accomodated by the right and left diopter or the adjustment between center and right diopter. No advantage to IF.

Precision focus has nothing to do with proper merging. Merging of detail is a function of precision alignment. No advantage to IF.

Nikon Superior E 12x50 have center focus, a much higher quality binocular than anything being discussed in this thread. No advantage to IF.

One advantage of IF is it becomes easier for the manufacturer to seal waterproof binoculars.

edz

#46 chascar

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 08:17 AM

Thanks Ed being new to this the amount of information is amazing especiaaly when you think how many of us have used binos all our live and not alot of knowledge as to the workings of them ( kind of like phones and cable plug in here) lol. Then comes the time when we want to buy a pair and the choices become so varied.

#47 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 11:45 AM

Ah, EdZ. You beat me to the retort! And I agree. Still, no clear advantage of center vs. IF. Personal preference clearly dictates here.

#48 chascar

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 12:01 PM

I agree so far it seems to fall to personal prefrence but if thats it why is it seem that the high end manufactures use that when more than likely production cost would dictate center focus as the prefered equipment.thoughts of a newbie. :shrug:

#49 EdZ

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 12:29 PM

more than likely production cost would dictate center focus as the prefered equipment


How did you reach that conclusion! I couldn't begin to guess what the production costs of the two types would be. Do you have some way of knowing?



edz

#50 chascar

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 12:40 PM

Just personel knowledge of my fathers engeneering co. he works with laser and IR optical scanning tech. and from his experience any single piece assembly is as a general rule less expencive to incoorperate into designs than the same piece that is duplicated not so much a hardware cost issue but a labor manufacturing cost ratio. I'm not an economist but I do remeber some things my father tried to impart to me. I can't argue the facts his monetary and business success far out shine my own.


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