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Tinkering Beachchairbill

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#1 beachchairbill

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 06:26 PM

Hi everyone,

After many days of though and advice from several CN members I went against the grain and removed the focusers from the GBT 100/45. With a magnifying glass and a 1.4mm screw driver, I set out to remove the six very tiny, tiny screws that hold the two main focuser screws from moving. I used white paper towels on my work table to make sure I could see the screws if they fell out of sight. Dropped three and found them on the paper towel. For safety I placed each screw into a clear plastic bag.

I then unscrewed the two main focuser screw holders and held my breath. With this task completed I removed the right focuser and here is what I found ( pictures on the way).

#2 beachchairbill

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 06:29 PM

Picture 1

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#3 beachchairbill

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 06:32 PM

Picture2

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#4 beachchairbill

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 06:38 PM

Picture3

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#5 beachchairbill

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 06:42 PM

The first question that hit me was what is that blue stuff and I hope its not grease and why is it so close to the mirror? If it is wax should I remove it?

BB

#6 Ad Astra

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 07:17 PM

Sometimes companies put a sealant on screws and such to make sure the owner doesn't violate warranty by digging into stuff they shouldn't.

Other times, it is a type of thread locker intended to keep things from shifting around.

Not sure from your photo, but the second option would be my guess in precision optics.

Good luck with your project!

Dan

#7 beachchairbill

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 07:40 PM

Dan,

Thanks for the heads up.

BB

#8 Gordon Rayner

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:02 AM

Film cans, especially the transparent kind, if you can find them, are ideal for screw storage. They also resist solvents. Use black Sharpie felt tip pens to identify contents. White towels are good for tabletop covers.

I have several extra tubes of 3M (?) tamper evidence glue. I have seen it, but have never used it.

"Mirror" ?? You mean a reflecting prism, no?

#9 GlenM

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:52 AM

Hi Beachchair,

I do hope you are marking the positions of these screws before removing them. The Blue stuff is a locking material.Not unusual at all.

A very interesting thread Bill.

I will be waiting in anticipation on the outcome of all this. The pics are very good.

#10 beachchairbill

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:08 PM

Hi everyone,

Waited for your comments before I turn the screws and I will turn the screws. Great ideas from Gordon and Glen and I will mark the screws before I turn them. The issue now is which screw and which way. Notice that their are three sets of screws and which screw does what?. Also their is one lone screw which does ?. Also if you take a look at one of the adjusting screws it is a phillips head screw and totaly different that the others. What's with this? Did some one loose a screw and replace it with what ever was available?

After I removed the right focuser, I inserted the laser into the focuser and turned it on and found that the laser was dead center. Looks like these mirrors are not off, I will not tinker any further until I have further advice on the turn screws.

Also, why was the blue material which looks like very hard wax placed in spots where it makes no sense. What's with this?

Take a look at the left small screw in picture #2 it's black all the others are brass color - interesting.

For now

BB, DCW

Can't wait to remove the right one

#11 GlenM

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:08 PM

The three sets of screws: Three will be for collimaion and the other three will be to 'lock' the collimation in place. I am only guessing at this,but that's the way I see it. The other screws will be to 'lock' the whole assembly in place.

The different screw types used are probably for the workers who assemble the binocular. It's easier to teach them that these screws are needed to be adjusted in a certain way,rather than teach them what they actually do and what position they have to be in.

#12 Rich V.

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:27 PM

The larger brass screws are the "pull" screws; the smaller the "push". Loosen the pull screw about 1/2 turn and turn the adjacent push screw in a little; just a fraction of a turn at a time. Then tighten the pull screw again to lock the prism securely; don't over tighten! You'll have to use trial and error to figure out which pair of screws moves the image in the direction you want to go. Small adjustments, please. It will probably take adjusting two pairs to get what you want.

I wouldn't mess with the screws on the rhomboid prism turrets; the collimation convention is to adjust the three pairs of push-pull screws that tilt the main prism, not the turrets.

I'll send you some detailed Miyauchi collimation instructions that will also apply to your Miyauchi clones if you PM me your email address, Bill. I think they will help your understanding of the process.

Rich V

#13 Cory Suddarth

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:42 PM

Dang Bill!!!!
Hey, do me a favor! 1). call the mirrors prisms, and 2). the six screws in three groups, call them tri-sets. Have fun buddy!

Cory

#14 beachchairbill

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:53 PM

Cory,

Thanks and I will.

Did you put that rusty screw in my binocular.

BB

#15 beachchairbill

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:08 PM

Rich V.

Thanks for the information and just add @aol.com.

Look forward to your e-mail.

Thanks

Beachchairbill

#16 beachchairbill

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 11:59 PM

Here are pictures of the right side mirror prisms and the tri sets. Get a look at all the blue sodder around the right prisms. Looks like all tri sets were relpacd properly

Beachchairbill

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#17 beachchairbill

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:00 AM

Both side together

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#18 beachchairbill

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:01 AM

one more

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#19 beachchairbill

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:06 AM

I wonder if several of the tri sets are stuck from all of the blue glue?

BB

Wiilawait Rich V's instruction before I start my adjustments.

BB

#20 Rich V.

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:34 AM

BB, I don't know what to say about the "screw goo"; as you know, my experience is with Miyauchi binoculars and I haven't seen any screw locking substance on their "tri-sets". (thanks Cory) I hope you can break that goo loose!

Hope you don't mind me saying but the insides are pretty rough looking compared to the original Miyauchis! I guess corners had to be cut somewhere........

Good luck and go slow,

Rich V

BTW, Bill, I don't think you had to actually remove the three little retaining ring set screws; all you needed to do is back them off a bit so the retainer can turn freely. Did they have "goo" on them too?

#21 beachchairbill

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 02:19 PM

Rich V

First things first, thanks for sending me the details on the Miyauchi and when I get some free time I will give them a good read before I start on the GBT.

The reason I removed the tiny tiny screws all the way was I was afraid that if I deopped one or two I would not find them again. Better to konw where thir at then to loose them while moving the focusers from the dinning room table. Right now this is where I do all of my fine work.

I did not find this type of goo on these screws that God, however their was something black covering each screw head which could be grease?

As far as removing the blue goo I would need a hammer and a chisel and a very sharp on at that. For now, I will leave most of the goooo alone and yes thie is blue goo, black what ever and some white paint around most of the tir sets as Cory would say.

Right now I'm in the middle of screwing the focusers on and off the binocular to make sure that when I turn on the laser it appears in the same spot just off center to the lower right. First check the laser dot has moved on the left barrel. I think it has to do with how tight the two main screws are.

Will continue after the Met game tonight - My daughter who is 8 months with child is treating me to dinner and the game. Nice seats behind home plate.

BB

#22 Cory Suddarth

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:21 PM

Bill,

I saved a rusty screw just for you! And Rich is correct, all you really needed to do is back the three set screws off a tad, then unscrew the lock collar.

Cory

#23 beachchairbill

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:31 PM

Cory,

Thanks for the tip and here is something for every one to ponder, however you might have the answer?

So far, I have only removed the focusers covers ( prisms morrors) and have not made any adjustments. I decided to put the covers back onto the binoculars and return them to their original state for practice. I did not put the tiney, tiney screws back. I tightened both focuser screws and the center screws and everything looked great. I then decided to double check the laser markers and bingo the left tube was further out of wack than before and in a different location. The right marker was in the same location with a slight improvement. I have every confidence that the laser is working properly and the fix into the focuser is nice and tight with no wiggle.

Anyone care to comment on this new issue. I intend to redue the process over again tomorrow and see if things change again.

BB
further out of wack then before and the right

#24 Rich V.

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:41 AM

Anyone care to comment on this new issue. I intend to redue the process over again tomorrow and see if things change again.


You'll need to make sure the turret retainer rings are as tight as originally secured; if not, there may be "slop" in the turret/prism housing interface making your collimation shift around as you turn the turrets to adjust IPD.

With the laser inserted in the focuser, turn each turret through its range of movement and see if the laser dot remains stationary on your target. If each turret is secured firmly enough I would expect the dot to remain in the same place regardless of the turret orientation. If the dot moves, look for the cause of the "slop".

Rich V

#25 EdZ

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:30 PM

Cory,

Thanks for the tip and here is something for every one to ponder, however you might have the answer?

So far, I have only removed the focusers covers ( prisms morrors) and have not made any adjustments. I decided to put the covers back onto the binoculars and return them to their original state for practice. I did not put the tiney, tiney screws back. I tightened both focuser screws and the center screws and everything looked great. I then decided to double check the laser markers and bingo the left tube was further out of wack than before and in a different location. The right marker was in the same location with a slight improvement. I have every confidence that the laser is working properly and the fix into the focuser is nice and tight with no wiggle.

Anyone care to comment on this new issue. I intend to redue the process over again tomorrow and see if things change again.

BB
further out of wack then before and the right


possiblity

the left tube is conditionally aligned to the right tube and when reassemblig, the IPD was changed somewhat from the first measure. Changing IPD setting may have the effect of moving the output beam from what was seen at first.

edz


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