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Cave Mirror Registry

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#76 PiSigma

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:12 PM

Clint,

Thanks for the additional mirrors.

I hope you are right on M651485 - my 10" f/6, M716851, is engraved in the same style.

It is odd that M705556 does not have the day in the date, only AUG 1970.

#77 PiSigma

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:16 PM

Dean - thanks. Another secretary, "g", and another signature style to add to the list.

#78 PiSigma

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:20 PM

Thanks doublestar - that one is rather different from all the rest in how the R rolls into the C in Cave.
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#79 greju

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:27 PM

Jon, yes. And thanks for cleaning that up.

#80 PiSigma

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:38 PM

Here is an update to the registry. Additions/changes from the last one (first post in this thread) are highlighted in yellow. I've also added the date of the image at the top.

Interesting additions:

Gregg's M2004, which expands the range of the "early" no-year-in-the-serial-number mirrors.

L. Regira's M794070 which is now the highest one known and expands the total number by 39.

Clint's M705556, which is now the earliest block engraved mirror.

Total number of mirrors in the registry: 67.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4438721-CaveMirrorRegistry030911.jpg


#81 tim53

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:21 AM

Tim, could you post a picture of what logo you are referring to? This is the one I have.


It's the logo on the letter head in Dean's post. Also was in the magazine ads that way.

-Tim.

#82 tim53

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:27 AM

Here is an update to the registry. Additions/changes from the last one (first post in this thread) are highlighted in yellow. I've also added the date of the image at the top.

Interesting additions:

Gregg's M2004, which expands the range of the "early" no-year-in-the-serial-number mirrors.

L. Regira's M794070 which is now the highest one known and expands the total number by 39.

Clint's M705556, which is now the earliest block engraved mirror.

Total number of mirrors in the registry: 67.


Don't forget the 10" Dall-Kirkham I bought from Steve Huston last week.

Mirror possibly from Tinsley, "TLI 762 #2" on both the primary and secondary. Steve told me in an email the other night that it wasn't ever in the showroom, but made to order in 1965. He had to go back to Cave over several months to get the scope and mount. It came with no rings, so Steve drilled the two mounting holes in the tube for putting it on the saddle when the mount was done.

-Tim.

#83 astro140

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:19 PM

Jon,
Thanks for your great effort!! The mirror in my 8" Cave Cassegrain is signed " Cave Optical Co. MF 738571 F4 Elip 31 3/4" Nov 1, 1973". I know that many of the Cave Cassegrain mirror sets were made by "mirrors from Mars" in Pennsylvania, but from the inscription, this set may have been made by Cave.
Steve,
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aka astro140

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4439777-8-Inch Cave Cassegrain.jpg

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#84 PiSigma

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:33 PM

Tim,

Doh! I was following that thread and completely forgot to add it. I'll add it at the bottom of the next revision since it doesn't fall into the M sequence of numbers.

#85 PiSigma

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:36 PM

Thanks Steve.

I wonder what the "MF" prefix means?

Is the engraving in cursive script or block letters?

Do you sill have your 6" RFT? I don't have a picture of that one and am wondering what style the engraving is on that one too.

#86 PiSigma

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:13 PM

Here's something I haven't seen on a Cave before. While restoring my 8" f/8 Model B Deluxe I found this in the center of the spider. "M" in a "C" with 121749.

Anyone else have something like this on their Cave?

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4447577-IMG_5043sm.jpg


#87 clintwhitman

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 12:03 PM

Not me!

#88 clamchip

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:19 AM

Hi Jon.

I have a 6" student deluxe with the following serial on the primary:

M-727193 F/8 47 3/4"fl. March 20th 1972

Robert

#89 Rich (RLTYS)

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 05:08 AM

Nothing on mine.

Rich (RLTYS)

#90 PiSigma

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:43 AM

Hi Jon.

I have a 6" student deluxe with the following serial on the primary:

M-727193 F/8 47 3/4"fl. March 20th 1972

Robert


Thanks Robert. I will get it added to the next update. Is it engraved in cursive or block lettering? Is it possible for you to post a picture?

#91 clamchip

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:37 AM

I'll need to remove the mirror for a picture of it which I can do soon. I want to have a look at the spider anyway for ID.
I can show off the whole scope though! I bought it a few years ago from the Bellingham WA school district, an old retired workhorse.
Robert

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4453486-Picture 002.jpg


#92 Lew Chilton

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 08:11 PM

A PM from 09/28/08 04:14 PM:

Dear Mr Chilton, I am trying to find info about Bert Sproul. His name is engraved on the 8" primary along with Thomas R Cave, June 1952, Long Beach. I have contacted various Cave Enthuiast folks but no one knows about Mr Sproul. I called O. Richard Norton, who remembers that he was an early member of Excelsior. Regards, Fred Franz, Past President, Boise Astronomical Society - Fredbas

Jon,
Here's a reference to the earliest Cave yet - from 1952. It sure would be nice to get the serial no. of this mirror, if it even has one.

#93 PiSigma

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 09:20 PM

Yes it sure would Lew! One thing that doesn't seem right to me - if Cave Optical was started in December of 1950, and at that time they started at mirror number M1, it would seem they would have made more than 74 mirrors by May of 1953.

The most interesting period for me are these early mirrors without the year in the serial number as I'd like to figure out how many were made in order to come up with an accurate count of total mirrors made. Right now I can only say that 16,074 were made (14070 + 2004).

We have a big gap in there from October, 1961 to June 18, 1965.

#94 Lew Chilton

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 03:37 AM

Jon,
We don't know how long after Cave Optical Co. went into business that it began serializing its mirrors. At what point did it transition from a hobby for Tom Cave and his father to a full-time business? We know that it started out as the Cave-Wilkinson (or Cave-Wilkerson) Co.

I am now doing a little online research and found a newspaper article from 1955 relating to Cave Optical. I'll keep searching for earlier articles/ads.

The article below appeared in the Saturday, Sep. 17, 1955 Long Beach Independent, p. 3. These newspaper clippings are in the public domain.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4459247-CAVE OPTICAL ARTICLE - 1955.jpg


#95 Lew Chilton

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 04:04 AM

The newspaper article below was published in the Sunday, August 29, 1954 issue of the Nevada State Journal, Reno, Nevada, p. 24. It doesn't mention Cave's telescope business per se, but it is so historical I couldn't resist posting it. I found newspaper articles going back to the 1920s that make reference to Thomas R. Cave, Sr., but they're of a more personal nature. They would be more useful in researching a Cave biography as well as a Cave genealogy.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4459264-CAVE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE - 1954.jpg


#96 Lew Chilton

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 04:29 AM

In this portion of a newspaper article published in the Long Beach Press-Telegram newspaper, Southland Magazine, p. 14, on December 11, 1960, the number of telescopes made since Cave Optical went into business in 1952 is mentioned. I clipped and saved this article when it was first published and still have it in my old scrapbook.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4459278-CAVE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE - 1960.jpg


#97 PiSigma

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 03:43 PM

Lew, that is some great research!

You are right, we don't know when they started serializing mirrors. And we don't know what the situation is with the other 53,000 mirrors that are claimed to have been made and sold loose, not in complete Cave scopes.

That 1300 telescope figure in the last article is interesting. Looking at the registry one could make the assumption that about 1700 mirrors would have been serialized by the end of 1960 when it was written so maybe that consisted of 1300 complete telescopes and 400 loose mirrors? And that article says they opened in 1952. Dick Norton wrote that Cave-Wilkinson Optical Co. opened in December 1950 and that the partnership with Louis Wilkinson lasted only 8 weeks.

#98 astro140

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 03:31 PM

Thanks Steve.

I wonder what the "MF" prefix means?

Is the engraving in cursive script or block letters?

Do you sill have your 6" RFT? I don't have a picture of that one and am wondering what style the engraving is on that one too.


Hi Jon,
Sorry for the delayed response....work gets in the way of fun :) The attached is a picture of the serial number portion of my 6 inch f/4 Cave (Block letters).
Steve
NM

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4491825-Cave 6_ inch f4 Mirror Serial Number.jpg


#99 astro140

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 04:42 PM

[quote name="astro140"][quote]Thanks Steve.

I wonder what the "MF" prefix means?

Is the engraving in cursive script or block letters?

[/quote]
Jon,
Apparently the "F" was a figment of my imagination...pictures are better!!! Attaching three pictures of the Cave Mirror from the 8-inch Cassegrain...the Signature, Serial Number, and Panco sticker. I used a black felt pen so that the letters would show...easily removed afterwards with acetone. Interesting that the 1973 Rich Field is in Block Letters whereas the 1973 8-inch Cassegrain is in Script Letters.
Steve

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4491928-Cave 8 inch Cassegrain Signature.jpg


#100 astro140

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 04:44 PM

Serial Number 8-inch Cassegrain

Attached Thumbnails

  • 4491933-Cave 8 inch Cassegrain Serial Number.jpg



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