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Cave Mirror Registry

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#101 astro140

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 04:45 PM

PANCRO sticker on back of 8-inch Cassegrain mirror

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#102 PiSigma

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 05:27 PM

Thanks for the update Steve! I know what you mean on the time thing.

It's good to know that prefix is just an M as it should be.

The block letter and cursive letter mirrors are an interesting aspect right now and I don't think any conclusions can be drawn as to what they mean or why they were done. Obviously two different engravers but I suspect there was more than one person doing the cursive style and more than one person doing the block style.

#103 Dean Norris

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 07:13 PM

Jon,

Here's some images showing the inscription on my Cave 10" f/6 mirror. I was wrong about the inscription style. Mine is in block letters.

Thanks for compiling this information.

Dean

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#104 Dean Norris

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 07:15 PM

.

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#105 PiSigma

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:27 PM

A PM from 09/28/08 04:14 PM:

Dear Mr Chilton, I am trying to find info about Bert Sproul. His name is engraved on the 8" primary along with Thomas R Cave, June 1952, Long Beach. I have contacted various Cave Enthuiast folks but no one knows about Mr Sproul. I called O. Richard Norton, who remembers that he was an early member of Excelsior. Regards, Fred Franz, Past President, Boise Astronomical Society - Fredbas

Jon,
Here's a reference to the earliest Cave yet - from 1952. It sure would be nice to get the serial no. of this mirror, if it even has one.


Lew,

I received an email from Mr. Franz today with pictures of this mirror and scope.

The mirror is in an 8" f/6.5 Model B Deluxe, an early one with brass Astrola tags, black speckled paint, etc. Odd thing is the mirror is scribed "Refigured by Thomas R. Cave June 1952 8" 52 inch F.L. F 6.5 Long Beach" in very fancy script. There is no serial number on it. The scope looks like models in the red cover catalog on Robert Provin's site. I wish we knew what date that catalog is from.

I'm pretty sure this mirror is not original to the scope as I'm not sure Cave was even making complete scopes in June 1952.

My suspicion is that the serialized mirrors went into complete scopes. If this is true (big if) then serial number M74 would indicate they may have not started producing complete scopes until early to mid 1953. This refigured mirror, being June 1952 with no serial number, goes a tiny way toward confirming this. Or, it at least indicates that Cave might not have serialized the mirrors they made or refigured during the first couple of years they were in business. This is all just speculation on my part.

I now have the complete S&T DVD collection and am going to start poring through them to see if I can pick up any tidbits that might help fill in some blanks.

#106 PiSigma

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:32 PM

Thanks Dean. Interesting - another later mirror with just the month and year, not the day.

#107 Datapanic

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 10:28 PM

Hi Jon,

Got around to taking out the 8" Lightweight Deluxe mirror today!

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#108 Datapanic

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 10:29 PM

Date...

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#109 PiSigma

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:29 PM

Thanks Dan!

#110 Lew Chilton

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 03:47 PM

PiSigma (Jon),

Another Cave mirror just turned up in the AM ads in the Telescope Making category.

It's an early Cave 12.5” mirror set owned by Shawn Iles of Santa Rosa, California. He posted it for sale on Apr 10, 2011. Here are the particulars for your Cave Mirror Registry:

Cave Optical Co. M-745 #8855 F/7.5 Nov. 1956.


I hope this info. is useful. Perhaps you can contact him for additional details and a picture of the engraving on the back of the mirror (not the edge).

#111 clintwhitman

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 05:52 PM

I found an early one yesterday... Made by Tomas R Cave 8" F9 1952 Serial # 48 !!!! Due to the nature and age of the complete telescope I will post the thing... I need and ID on the mount...... (aveman looks like this one was made by the master himself for Mr. Freedman. I was told he was a close personal friend of Tom Caves and the 8" F9 scope is supposed to be a planet killer :roflmao: OOOO Boy a new project scope

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#112 Lew Chilton

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 09:36 PM

Clint,

I think Freeman (not Freedman) was a member of the L.A. Astronomical Society. Are the initials H. Freeman? That could be Harry Freeman. He may have been a past president of the club, which was founded in 1926.

We ought to rename this thread "Cave Archaeology." A 1952 Cave mirror is really getting back to the beginning!

Clint, that would be a very historic Cave mirror - is it yours now? I hope so.

-Lew

#113 PiSigma

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 08:39 PM

It is Cave archaeology isn't it Lew?

I contacted the seller of M745 asking for a photograph but no response yet. Thanks!

#114 PiSigma

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 08:41 PM

Clint,

That is really a special one isn't it? I'll bet it is going to be a lulu. F/9 is a bit unusual. And no M before the mirror number. But it fits into the list order.

#115 PiSigma

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 08:51 PM

Here is a current update to the registry.

Since I'm having to compress this a lot to get under the CN image file size limit here is a link to a higher resolution image:

Cave Mirror Registry

Updates from the last list are highlighted in yellow.

Interesting additions:
The two new very early mirrors
Our first pair of consecutive serial numbers, M761940 and M761941, made one day apart
Another Cass with a 'non-standard' serial number

Total mirrors - 79

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#116 JLW

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:33 PM

Hi Jon,
Obviously I'm new here, so may not have the protocol correct.
I have a Cave 6" f4 (I think.. tube is 29 1/2 " overall). The mirror has the printed (pencil) word 'cave' on the backside, and a couple inches away in very faint pencil is a digit 1 inside a circle. The last and only time I have had the mirror out for cleaning, I do not recall seeing any engraving along the edge. There is a label on the tube, above the 'focuser' reading "Cave Optical Company 4137 E. Anaheim St. Long Beach Calif. ph; (213)434 2613". The mirror holder is the NOT the 'hippy symbol" you mentioned, rather it appears the same as one photographed by another member. The spider/secondary holder is the same cylindrical unit, 4 vanes, as was submitted by another on the cave pages. The focus unit has only 2 bolts attaching it to the fiberglass tube. Not 4 .
The finish on the mirror back is a very fine 'ground glass' no swirls, etc. It has the Cave (sort of saturn symbol with g and c in the rings)"No.28-OR 28.0mm ortho" eyepiece. I will borrow a digi camera from my son and try to photograph these key features.
I bought the scope 5 or 6 years ago. It is in excellent condition, no digs,dings, scratches, etc. The mirror is dusty and has a few very small spots on it (oxidation ? ) - otherwise is nice, no scratches etc. It came mounted on an equitorial 'pedastal' mount, 3 legs fan out at the base - similar to the old Edmond stlye but with a different clock drive than Edmonds.
My question: Do ALL Cave mirrors have engraved edges (date, f data etc) ? I have no reason to suspect this mirror was ever changed. I do not recall seeing any engraving.
I will try to supply photos of the overall view and details when possible.
Thank you very much, I appreciate this wonderful source of info on the Cave scopes..
Jack (tex03)

#117 PiSigma

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 04:04 PM

Hi Jack and welcome to the Cloudy Nights Classic Telescope forum!

Please post pictures if you can (and keep in mind the size limit here on CN is about 125k).

I have never seen any Cave mirrors marked in pencil. There is an argument to be made that not all Cave mirrors were engraved. There are some owners on here who have Caves with unmarked mirrors but AFAIK they are not the original owners so we don't know for sure if the mirrors were replaced somewhere along the way or if they are original.

One thing is for sure - if Cave made all of the mirrors they claim to have made - ~53,000 loose mirrors and ~15,600 complete telescopes, then there are a lot of unmarked Cave produced mirrors out there as the registry supports a total of 16,074 right now.

Your eyepiece sounds like a Galoc, which were sold by Cave.

#118 GilATM

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 12:19 AM

I can add a refigured 12.5" mirror. "Refigured by Cave Optical Co. R672896 f6 77 1/2" FL Sept 4 1967" Script

by the way, I counted the work days between my mirror and the next one on the list - and the number of mirrors completed in that time, and came up with an average produciton of 2 mirrors per day.

I have a 6" I'll take out sometime soon and get info from (it is signed by Alika Herring)

Gil, Ventura CA (I'll try to make the Pintos star party!)

#119 PiSigma

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:27 PM

Thanks Gil.

The rate of mirror production is interesting as you look through the list.

Looking forward to information from your 6". I've only seen a picture of one other mirror with Alika Herring's name engraved in it.

#120 charles genovese

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:44 PM

Interesting the biggest mirror is 12 1/2 so far. Well here is a 16" from my 16 " Observatory scope. Mirror and tube are for sale by the way.

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#121 charles genovese

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:50 PM

whole scope on a temporary wooden pier

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#122 charles genovese

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 05:18 PM

Regarding Tom's signature, he signed my catalogue while we were all staying at Tom Dobbins' home about 1995.

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#123 PiSigma

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 05:29 PM

That's excellent Charles! Finally, a 16" to add to the list and a bona fide Tom Cave signature. Thank you!

One digit on that serial number is hard to make out - is it M750547 or 647. That third digit from the end looks like a 5 they tried to turn into a 6.

#124 charles genovese

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 05:42 PM

Jon- That was my guess also- a 5 turned into a 6. Sure is a monster- 3 1/2" thick and 55#!

#125 L. Regira

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 05:46 PM

I happened to find a link to the gettogether where you met Tom Cave in 1997.
http://www.alpo-astr...sh/Meetings.htm


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