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Oberwerk 12x60 or 11x70 for hand held?

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#1 davidpitre

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:32 AM

I think I've narrowed my choice.
Does anyone have a suggestion as to which might be a better choice for grab and go hand-held use and the occasional tripod mount?
The 12x60s are lighter and have a larger FOV, but will the higher power be noticeable in my ability to keep a steady image?
I've also been considering Pentax PFC 10 or 12x50s
or Nikon AEs, but the Oberwerk seen to fit my pocketbook better and be a better deal.

#2 Erik D

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 12:23 PM

I don't think moving up 1X from 11 to 12X makes much difference in terms of steday holding. I have the Oberwerk 12X60 and it's external dimemsions are 9in X 8 in. Feels more like an oversied 50mm. The 70mm Oberwerks just 0.6 lbs heavier but noticably longer. If it's a choice between the 12X60 and 11X70 I would go with the 12X60...You'll see more with a 15X70 but most people would use a tripod at 15X.

The Pentax PCF WP and Nikon 12X50s are waterproof. They work nicely as high power terrestrial binos too but WP is not necessary if you are thinking astonomy only.

Erik D

#3 Swedpat

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 02:40 PM

I have a Oberwerk 11x70. Though it's much more lightweight than a Fujinon I would say it's still too heavy. The biggest disadvantage is the length, however, which will bring the point of weight far out from the face, and make it necessary to grab the bino out on the objective tubes.
Maybe the 12x60 will be more comfortable to handhold despite slightly higher power because of the interacting causes lower weight and shorter length.
Personally I will soon go for either the Oberwerk 11x56 or the Pentax 10x50 PCF WP II.

Patric

#4 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 03:38 PM

I agree with Erik and I would add that the 5mm exit pupil provided by the 12x60 bin would, more than likely, be better suited if you plan on any astronomy.

#5 davidpitre

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 07:29 PM

I compared some Pentax PCFs with some Nikon AEs in the store today and noticed the Nikons were much brighter.
The difference was so noticeable I was wondering if it was just a bad pair of Pentaxs.
I'm assuming this brightness in the day would translate to brighter images at night, no?

#6 davidpitre

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 07:40 PM

I just read Barrys' review of the PCFs AEs and Wind Rivers.
He seemed convinced the Pentax PCFs were brighter than the Nikon AEs. I am so sure of my comparisons that I think I must have been looking through a bad pair.

#7 Swedpat

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 07:58 PM

I compared some Pentax PCFs with some Nikon AEs in the store today and noticed the Nikons were much brighter.
The difference was so noticeable I was wondering if it was just a bad pair of Pentaxs.
I'm assuming this brightness in the day would translate to brighter images at night, no?


David!

That seems to me very surprising, because the Pentax PCF serie are confirmed to have a very good coating. I have looked at the Nikon AE and they are good, but have not compared them side by side to Pentax.

In some cases one binocular can be brighter at daytime than another, and the opposite at night, but that is when comparing binoculars with different exit pupils and the bino with larger exit pupil has worse light transmission. The binocular with smaller exit pupil can in that case at daytime give a brighter image but a darker image at night.

When comparing binoculars with the same exit pupils the binocular with the better coating will be brighter both at daytime and at night.

If the Pentax you tried is a bad pair it's a very bad sign which shows of a big lack of the quality control.

Patric

#8 davidpitre

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 08:32 PM

I was very surprised as well. Even though I've pretty much settled on Obies, I may go back and compare the demo model to a boxed one.

#9 EdZ

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 09:31 AM

Patric,

I tend to agree.

First question, did both binoculars you compared have the same size exit pupil? If not, then you cannot compare brightness of image.

I've tested and written a report comparing Pentax to Nikon AE. Both are good binoculars but several things I did find.

Pentax coatings reflect less light, meaning they allow more light to pass through.

This was comfirmed in tests on limiting magnitude. The Pentax goes a few tenths of a magnitude deeper than the Nikon AE. This is light transmission, not brightness of image.

To test brightness, you would need to observe some broad extended object with both binoculars. In daylight you may have been observing the difference in color cast, warmer vs cooler image, and you may find one more pleasing to your eye.

The Nikon has a wider field of view, but the outer edges of that field are poor. The Pentax has superior edge of field sharpness, but has a narrower field of view. Net effective usable field is about the same.


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