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goto-hy-score model 451

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#1 novice1

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:19 PM

I have a post in the beginners forum about this, but thought you all in the classic discussion might be able to shed some light on this scope for me. Purchased at an estate sale a few weeks ago. If so, please check out my post in the beginners forum for more pics and info. Thanks.

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#2 novice1

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:21 PM

ps. it is from 1956 (still has the original inspection card with the date)

#3 Nave

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:57 PM

Convenient link to beginner's board post:
http://www.cloudynig...5/o/all/fpart/1

#4 tim53

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:00 PM

Holy cow! One of the holy grail classics!

You'll soon get all kinds of helpful posts. (I don't own one, but I did bid on one once!).

-Tim.

#5 strdst

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:52 PM

Very nice first scope! Actually this would make a very nice tenth, twentieth, or even fortieth scope... trust me I know :roflmao:

I too have a Hyscore 451 although it's much younger than yours... mine has a 1957 vintage. These are exceptional scopes. Did you see the details in the bolts that hold the tripod to the mount? The focuser is the same as is on my mid-1950's Unitron #114 except that the knobs (one per scope) are on opposite sides. The mount and tripod are quite stable for this size scope.

Optics can be excellent. Mine are. The finderscope is really bright. You will also be able to use a huge selection of eyepieces with your scope whether 965" or 1.25". You did just pick up a prize classic scope.

Oh and don't clean any of the optics, unless they are really needing cleaning, in which case, still don't. Not yet at least.

Excellent (hy) score!

#6 novice1

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:39 PM

Thanks everyone. Still trying to figure this out. Big bright moon tonight. I can see the moon in the "spotter scope" (I assume thats the little scope on top. I can get brightness to come through the eyepiece but can't seem to focus. I can see something that may be craters, but could as easily be dirt on the lens. I think the eye piece part is what is causing me troubles. I'm not sure if I've got one put together correctly. The eyepieces have several pieces.

I'm going to post another photo that may answer a question from the other post on the beginners forum.

#7 Steve_M_M

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:48 PM

Hi There,

Great garage sale find. I am sure you will be happy.

You need to remove the erecting prism. This is the piece that has the crinkle paint finish. The correct setup is diagonal (90 degree angle piece with Goto stanped on side), then eyepiece. Here are some pictures of my Goto 60mm

Goto 60mm

Steve

#8 Steve_M_M

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:56 PM

Also, in this picture you posted, the sleeve on the piece on the far right actually threads into one side of the diagonal. Your diagonal should have a 1.5" tube coming out both ends with the prism assembly in the middle.

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#9 novice1

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:58 PM

Thanks for that tip. I'd go try it right now, but it has clouded up!

Does yours have the different pieces to they eyepiece that mix and match? I got a kick out of these instructions in the box. I love how it says, "if you use all these pieces simultaneously, it does not serve the purpose of an eyepiece."

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#10 strdst

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:04 PM

Well you got me to unearth my hyscore. Looking over the double duty eyepiece configuration (this is not how most telescopes are supplied) I can see that the drawing is confusing I think. I would recommend that to start you construct the eyepiece as a 20mm. This will give you a magnification of 45X that of your eye. A "low power" for this scope but just great for a full moon or many open star clusters. Of course the brightness of that full moon will interfere with looking for deep space objects tonight but it will wane soon.

To put together the eyepiece for that 45X view you need...

Part 1 the lensless cap with the writing on it.
Part 2 the lens in the thinner of the two interchangeable parts screwed to the chrome barrel.
Part 3 the large glassed lens screwed to the bottom of the eyepiece.

If you set that up and can find the moon it shouldn't even fill the eyepiece field of view but should focus to a very crisp image. Because the moon is fullish there won't be the great kind of contrast between shadow and light tonight. Try focusing on the edge till the line between black sky and moon is sharpest.

Before I go any further...

Some things to note.

The focuser has a long travel distance controlled by the focus knob gear. It also has a second just sliding part (draw tube) that extends the length even a bit more. Different eyepieces focus at different distances from the main lens.

When an accessory is added the distance from the objective lens is increased so the focuser must be drawn in to make up the distance added before the light can be focused and then magnified by the eyepiece. When viewing the sky with a refractor using the "star diagonal" 90 degree prism is best. If you combine that with the other prism "erector" you may have made too much length from the eyepiece to the lens to take up with the focuser.

Just hopped over to your addition to the beginners thread. Yes!!! don't use the diagonal with the erector. Make your scope look like the literature you posted not like your last photo.

To make the 10mm eyepiece I believe the drawing is confusing and wrong. I'll help you with that later after I test what I'm thinking out.

Finder scopes have to be adjusted to match what the telescope is pointing at. You may be filling the eyepiece with light from being almost pointed at the moon but not quite. You can point your scope at the moon with the eyepiece removed from the diagonal prism. You will know when you are on target as it will be blinding. Then gently, without moving the scope too much, reinsert the eyepiece and begin focusing. I think you are going to be pretty excited when you get a look.

Keep with it and with us. You'll get it figured out soon!

#11 novice1

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:05 PM

So, last question for the night. When I learn to use this, will I be able to see things other than the moon? I'm content with the moon, but curious.

#12 strdst

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:18 PM

As I was writing I see Steve posted. He is the GOTO GO TO GUY. You are now in good hands.:bow:

Do you live near me? The moon just disappeared here as well :bawling:

A question for Steve... I was going to test this tonight but just examining the field stop of the configuration to make the 10 mm eyepiece I think on the diagram part 3 it should just be the barrel sans second middle lens element. The diagram shows the lens in wider "cell" mounting over the lens in thinner cell and leaving off the bottom element. When I connect this way I just get a blurry mess... not looking through the scope, just the ep. Is the diagram for the 10mm correct?

#13 novice1

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:26 PM

I live in Michigan. Looks like you're in Oregon. I did live in Salem for a couple years! What a beautiful state.

#14 Nave

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:34 PM

So, last question for the night. When I learn to use this, will I be able to see things other than the moon? I'm content with the moon, but curious.

Don't be content with the moon.
When you are on the moon tonight - or whenever - adjust the finder so that it is also more or less centered on the moon. It doesn't have to be perfect - just referential. That is, if you look through the eyepiece and it is dead-centered on the moon, but through the finder, it is the upper-right quarter of the field of view, then, you know to look to put other objects into the upper-right quarter.

Then, go look for the brightest object near the moon - it's Jupiter. Look at that, too. You'll see its moons. It's cool.

Saturn's rings should appear through this instrument too.

Also, on the other thread, there was discussion of purchasing modern eyepieces. I don't think it's probably necessary - the Goto eyepieces themselves that you have are adequate.

Have fun!

#15 strdst

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:36 PM

So, last question for the night. When I learn to use this, will I be able to see things other than the moon? I'm content with the moon, but curious.


HECK YES!

Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars, Mercury, The Sun, Open Star Clusters, Globular Star Clusters, Occasional Visiting Comets, Beautiful Double and Multiple Star Systems, Bright Nebula, AND some bright Galaxies that are ridiculously far away, not to mention keeping tabs on your neighbor's activities :lol:

Seriously there are so many things to see with your scope. It may prove to be a "gateway" scope to other larger aperture scopes but have no fear. I have a suspicion you picked this up for quite a bit less than I picked mine up for. This is a great starter scope as well as a fine collectible classic. Again, nice score!

other keith

#16 strdst

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:22 PM

The sky cleared a bit. Just came in from viewing the moon and Jupiter with my Goto interchangeable eyepiece as a 20 mm 45X. The images were pretty much unrecognizable. I switched to a 9mm ep from a Nippon Kogaku (1956 vintage) and got a fine (considering the unsteady sky tonight) 100X view of Jupiter. Novice1, you may have better results with different eyepieces as well. I suggest you try with the one/two supplied, but consider looking for something different. If you aren't seeing clearly with what you have, I can loan you some eyepieces for awhile to get you started. Your scope has lots of potential to show you some fine views of the heavens. Figuring out why it isn't is all part of the challenge of buying and using vintage equipment.

#17 novice1

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 11:25 PM

You guys rock!! I can't believe how kind and helpful you've been. A special thanks to strdst. Put together the eyepiece as he instructed (took a few tries) and my daughter and I got an awesome look at the moon - perfect focus! Can't wait to start looking deeper into space!

I am really amazed by the kindness of strangers! Hopefully this is the start of a lifelong pursuit for me and my family.

Thanks again, I'm sure I'll be asking more about what I need to do to look at other stuff.

#18 novice1

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:35 PM

Wow, tonight saw Jupiter and some moons (I think). It was with the eyepiece set up strdst showed me above, so this question is mostly for him I guess. I'm uploading a pic of the remaining eyepiece parts I'm not using for the first set up. I can put these pieces together easy enough.The middle piece screws into the chrome piece on the left and the black piece screws over all. Note the chrome is shorter than the piece I used in the first set up and has no threads on one end.

Do I just shove this into the black cylinder that screws into the prism? Its not as long as the other and doesn't go all the way down past the slit in black cylinder.

If I buy other eyepieces do they just slip into the black cylinder?

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#19 strdst

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:50 AM

Well you are way ahead of me. You got your eyepiece to work in the 20mm mode already. I couldn't do that the other night with mine. Hasn't been a break in the clouds since to even try out the 10 mm configuration.

I'd try it with the top and middle lens leaving off the bottom element, just like on the diagram. I jumped to a conclusion just looking through the eyepiece that the diagram was wrong. Usually there is a nice sharp edge called the field stop that you see just looking at a light even without the telescope. When I looked through as the diagram was drawn it was an out of focus blur everywhere including the field stop. I assumed the elements weren't meant to really go in that order. Now I'm thinking my eyepiece is missing an element or an element has been turned over perhaps by a previous owner in like 1963 or something.

Yes it is ok if the barrel is a bit shorter without the bottom element attached.

Yes other eyepieces will work great in your scope. They will have to measure .965 in. Which was the Japanese standard at the time your telescope was made. These eyepieces are still available new. There have been recent threads about where to get them and how good they are. Hopefully someone will post a link to those threads for you.

Also if you become somewhat insane and start a collection of these beautiful classic scopes you will soon find yourself knee deep in these little eyepieces. You can also purchase a 90 degree star diagonal prism that is .965 inches where it slides into your telescope but has a larger opening on the other end to accept the other standard eyepiece that is 1.25 inches in diameter. There are threads here about where to find them. I'd offer to dig some up but my phone is now my computer and I'm finding writing on this little virtual keyboard is kind of exhausting, not that I'd even know how to post a link without using my mostly dead MacBook. :(

#20 novice1

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 08:45 PM

Well, I'll trespass on your kindness a little longer. I really did try to go do some research on eyepiece fundamentals on my own, but it got too confusing.

So, knowing we are as rank amateur as one can get and knowing this scope, would you have a recommendation of one or two eyepieces that are easy to use (ie easy to see through-larger than a pinhole). The one we have working shows the entire moon and that is great. I would think we'd want one that we could see the rings of Saturn in.

Also, will a Barlow lens work on this scope/eyepiece?

#21 strdst

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:48 PM

Barlow eh? And you call yourself an amateur? I don't know why not. I noticed the eyepiece case inside of the telescope case appears to have a space for a Barlow although i don't remember seeing one with my kit. I haven't barlowed an eyepiece since 1966. I probably should though.

I found one recent link to a discussion of antares plossl eyepieces in .965 sizes. If you scroll down soon and click on page 5 of the classics forum it is there. If you wait it will be on page 6 on Wednesday lol . I would think a 9mm eyepiece would he nice. That would provide 100x. You could try a 7mm which would offer almost 130x which would be what I would consider the high end of magnification for your scope. You will see Saturn's rings quite well with either of those ep's. You will even on occasion be able to catch the shadow cast upon jupiter's cloudy atmosphere by one of the very large 4 moons as they transit the disc of the planet. That would be a start. An eyepiece of 12.5 mm is another good one and was a mainstay in telescope kits back in the day.

You might keep an eye out on ebay for .965 eyepieces. I have occasionally added to my collection that way. A set of old
Unitron ep's a few years ago was surprisingly inexpensive. AND they are pretty good quality.

#22 novice1

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:21 PM

Thanks. I think I'll pick up a 9mm and 12.5mm as a start. I think I"m going to get one of those hybrid prisms as well.

From the few times I've been out I think the greatest challenge will be finding something smaller than the moon and holding it in the scope. Especially if it isn't something obvious like the moon or Jupiter. One step at a time though.

#23 novice1

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:58 PM

I've seen two of these hybrid prisms. One is from Parks Optical ($50) and one from Antares ($33). Any recommendations on good brands or brands to stay away from?

Also on eyepieces - Ocular vs Plossi?

#24 Wisconsin Steve

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:01 PM

I have the Antares - seems very well made and solid.

#25 Qwickdraw

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:04 AM

Is a 75mm Goto Hyscore model 454 OTA only in good condition a good buy for $250?


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