41 replies to this topic

[APM M.Ludes]

Hi Jon

you are right about the storry. But I like to add that I was and still be a Kokusai Khoki dealer who did the Widescans and we started with the chinese clone only AFTER the widescan was discontinued. So we did it as a follow up product and did not hurt Kokusai Khoki in any way.

However the 30 mm have had no bad success and in europe its even sold under skywatcher brand, now :-)

happy holidays

[Mike Hosea]

IIRC, the counterfeiters have not yet had the gall of ever printing TMB with a circle "R" on their eyepieces,

Really? I wouldn't know. Frankly, I find it a little hard to believe that there ever has been more than one factory making these things in all their various forms. How much profit can there be in it? Isn't there something better they'd like to copy? Maybe something they can charge a bit more for? It doesn't mean that one is as good as another, however. Even if I'd never even heard of TMB and couldn't care less about his estate, I'd stick with the official channels if only because I'd expect a higher percentage of optical issues in the "counterfeit" stream.

As for all controversy surrounding these eyepieces in all forms, I'm done with it. You can tell me anything about them, and chances are my response will begin with "Really? I wouldn't know."

[E_Look]

Gah! I know I have the 5mm or 6mm of these eyepieces in my stocking this year and they were purchased from High Point... I hope they aren't counterfeits

-James

Nah. From HighPoint, they're real.

[Jon Isaacs]

Hi Jon

you are right about the storry. But I like to add that I was and still be a Kokusai Khoki dealer who did the Widescans and we started with the chinese clone only AFTER the widescan was discontinued. So we did it as a follow up product and did not hurt Kokusai Khoki in any way.

However the 30 mm have had no bad success and in europe its even sold under skywatcher brand, now :-)

happy holidays

Markus:

Thanks for the added details and clarifying some of the issues. That must have been 10 years ago when all that happened.

Happy Holidays

Jon Isaacs

[Jim Rosenstock]

IIRC, there were some actual TMB clones, i.e. they did not label them as TMB, but in this case their legitimacy is still questioned, because the manufacturer continued to use TMB's proprietary design without permission. So, not a "counterfeit", but an illegitmate clone nonetheless.

Given that you don't know the terms of the contracts between Burgess/TMB and their two successive manufacturers, that might actually be a libellous statement. I'd be careful about uttering that in any way that can be construed as a statement of fact rather than an opinion.

Thank you for providing the free legal advice, Sir. I trust that you are licensed to do so??

[Achernar]

With all these counterfeits being sold, I'm glad bought my set of TMB planetary eyepieces from Highpoint Scientific when I did. They do have very good color correction and do not exhibit any distortion that I can see.

Taras

[sixela]

Frankly, I find it a little hard to believe that there ever has been more than one factory making these things in all their various forms.

There are at least two manufacturers who have the optical design details (the current official manufacturer --black anodized barrel, TMB ® on the eyepieces-- is certainly not Synta --first generation TMB/Burgess eyepieces, silver coloured barrel, plus Skywatcher flavours and TS HR Planetary).

I have a feeling the ones with a satin black barrel may actually be from another source again, but no hard evidence, just the feeling that there are some gratuitous changes that I don't think someone who was already producing one of the various "official" ones would introduce (you only have to take a look at how little was changed in the mechanical design when the TS HR Planetary appeared; Synta only picked another design for branding purposes when they introduced Skywatcher ones, and even these have an air of familiarity in many of the details).

[sixela]

Thank you for providing the free legal advice, Sir. I trust that you are licensed to do so??

If it were legal advice, chances are it wouldn't be free . That wasn't legal advice and you know it very well. Note that I said it might be libellous, not that it was.

Someone in the US was just fined $2.5 million for a single Christmas Day 2010 blog article accusing someone else of criminal activity, though (even though it's not advice, just an observation), so I would simply have expressed myself differently in your post: I'd have said there's a chance the eyepieces might be illegimate clones. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Paul G]

Frankly, I find it a little hard to believe that there ever has been more than one factory making these things in all their various forms.

There are at least two manufacturers who have the optical design details (the current official manufacturer --black anodized barrel, TMB ® on the eyepieces-- is certainly not Synta --first generation TMB/Burgess eyepieces, silver coloured barrel, plus Skywatcher flavours and TS HR Planetary).

I have a feeling the ones with a satin black barrel may actually be from another source again, but no hard evidence, just the feeling that there are some gratuitous changes that I don't think someone who was already producing one of the various "official" ones would introduce (you only have to take a look at how little was changed in the mechanical design when the TS HR Planetary appeared; Synta only picked another design for branding purposes when they introduced Skywatcher ones, and even these have an air of familiarity in many of the details).

So the only issue is if the slightly altered design still carries the TMB logo without the estate's permission.

[starcam]

They also seem to be of inferior quality as you view through them. Some people complained about them thinking they were the real deal. Giving the impression that there are problems with the brand, but they were not viewing through the authorized eyepiece.

[craytab]

Great thread! I find this topic fascinating.

With all these counterfeits being sold, I'm glad bought my set of TMB planetary eyepieces from Highpoint Scientific when I did. They do have very good color correction and do not exhibit any distortion that I can see.

Taras

I'll even take it a step further....I am glad I got my TMBs from Astronomics! And I do agree, they are great EPs (well, the TMB IIs that I have at least).

[simpleisbetter]

Same here, I really like the TMB II's I got from our sponsor.

[Mike Hosea]

I haven't seen them side-by-side, so here again, I wouldn't know. From the beginning these things were 90% about the optics, 10% metal and rubber junk, only some of of which seemed at all specific to these eyepieces. Some "gratuitous" changes would be more suggestive than others.

[BillP]

Some "gratuitous" changes would be more suggestive than others.

[spudrick]

Looks like the seller from China is back on AM with ad for "58 Degree Planetary Eyepieces, they are 2.5mm/3.2mm/4mm/4.5mm/5mm/6mm/7mm/mm7.5mm/8mm/9mm, fully multi coated, provides sharp image.
Only US$365.00 for all ten items"
Photos look like the "Clones" as shown on this thread?

[hottr6]

Gah! I know I have the 5mm or 6mm of these eyepieces in my stocking this year and they were purchased from High Point... I hope they aren't counterfeits

-James

Nah. From HighPoint, they're real.

For completeness, I contend that the High Point TMBs were fakes. High Point sold 2.5mm, 3.2mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 8mm, and 9mm focal lengths, but the TMB Estate only authorized 2.5mm, 3.2mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 7mm, and 9mm focal lengths.

[TechPan6415]

The TMB site lists High Point as a dealer, but they show no links to stock, same with Astronomics, just a company overview on the latter. I just missed out on a 4mm in the classifieds, does anyone sell the real deal anymore and if not, what is a good equivalent 4mm planetary EP that is still made and actually available?