Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

First Light with the Big Guns

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
44 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:36 AM

Oberwerk BT100-45's

Quite a list of objects..M22, M25, M26, Andromeda, Pleaides, M13, Lagoon, Swan, Trifid Nebulas, the Double Cluster (best view thru the bino's of the evening). Fork mount smooth as silk. Waited up till 2:30 AM for lunar observing (which is predominately why I bought these)....and the view was vastly disappointing. The left assembly would not come into perfect focus (which was not noticable on the previous objects). Thought maybe an eyepeice might have been bad, so swapped sides with the EP's and the left tube would still not come into focus. I find it hard to believe that bino's in this price range could perform so sub-par, my assumption being I just happened to be one of the lucky ones that got a sup-par unit. Really took the wind out of my sails for the end of the night. Now, pack em up Monday and exchange them for a new pair, or perhaps some Miyauchi APO's...(depending on Dealers take on this whole thing). I am a real fussy consumer...i don't mind spending the money, but i do expect perfection upon that wish I spend it on, so now I am very much "Obie" shy....sighs.

Gary

#2 Glassthrower

Glassthrower

    Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 18,509
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2005

Posted 31 July 2005 - 10:20 AM

Oberwerk BT100-45's

Quite a list of objects..M22, M25, M26, Andromeda, Pleaides, M13, Lagoon, Swan, Trifid Nebulas, the Double Cluster (best view thru the bino's of the evening). Fork mount smooth as silk. Waited up till 2:30 AM for lunar observing (which is predominately why I bought these)....and the view was vastly disappointing. The left assembly would not come into perfect focus (which was not noticable on the previous objects). Thought maybe an eyepeice might have been bad, so swapped sides with the EP's and the left tube would still not come into focus. I find it hard to believe that bino's in this price range could perform so sub-par, my assumption being I just happened to be one of the lucky ones that got a sup-par unit. Really took the wind out of my sails for the end of the night. Now, pack em up Monday and exchange them for a new pair, or perhaps some Miyauchi APO's...(depending on Dealers take on this whole thing). I am a real fussy consumer...i don't mind spending the money, but i do expect perfection upon that wish I spend it on, so now I am very much "Obie" shy....sighs.


I'm sorry to hear about your focus problem. I can feel your frustration, since I have had a similar issue with my Celestron 25x100 Skymasters. No matter what I do, one eyepiece will not focusly tightly. When my diopter shroud fell off, that was the last straw and I am shipping them back to Celestron. At least Celestron is kind enough to have a lifetime "no fault" warranty. I assume you purchased your pair from a local dealer? So you may be spared the hassle of re-boxing them up and shipping them back - and the long turn-around time that entails.

Other than feeling your frustration, I have little else to offer. Perhaps some of the others in the group who own the same Obies can help you out. Good luck.

MikeG

#3 milt

milt

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 603
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2004

Posted 31 July 2005 - 10:51 AM

The left assembly would not come into perfect focus



Hi Gary,

I was very sorry to read this. FWIW, I had a similar experience with my former Astromeccanica/Borg binoscope when I first got it. One of the objectives had been jolted out of collimation in shipment with the result that it would not focus a star as tight as the other. Fortunately, the Borg objectives were user adjustable and I eventually got two tight images.

Before returning your BT you might want to put in high power eyepieces (higher than you would ever use for bino use) and star test the sides as two separate telescopes. A quick comparison will tell you what is wrong, i.e. misalignment, pinched lens, etc. Hopefully other BT owners will chime in here, too.

Best of luck,
Milt

#4 ngc6475

ngc6475

    Fearless Spectator

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,026
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2002

Posted 31 July 2005 - 11:12 AM

That's too bad, Gary. Maybe a call to your dealer with solve the problem, either with repair advice or instruction to send it back for replacement. I'm with you about being fussy with your new stuff: optical equipment is never truly cheap and the standards of excellence are high. Don't give up!

#5 EdZ

EdZ

    Professor EdZ

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,849
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2002

Posted 31 July 2005 - 11:19 AM

Personally, I would think you would be giving these many hours of use over a period of several weeks before reaching this conclusion.

the foucus was not off when you viewed extended objects AND point sources. But you were not able to reach focus on an extremely bright object. Why so quick to blame it on the instrument? This could be a couple of things, but might be your eyes more than anything else. Maybe your left eye was tired.

When you attempt focus on the moon are you picking out one small very contrasty crater and focusing on it or are you attempting to focus on the edge of the moon? Focusing on the edge may mean you are attempting to focus on the region that will produce the most CA where it would be very difficult to find any precise focus.

FWIW, I find the moon one of the most difficulat objects to focus on.

Whatever the case, I think you should spend a LOT more time assessing an instrument before you declare it subpar based on one night out. maybe it is, but at least allow yourself several opportunities to confirm it's not you.

FWIW, I just spent an afternoon testing binoculars. In every instance of a dozen different binoculars, I found it more difficult to bring my right eye to focus.

edz

#6 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 31 July 2005 - 01:39 PM

Gary,

Did you happen to check both barrels using the same (predominate) eye, and then visa-versa to help confirm it was a focus problem in the bino ?

Just a thought......

#7 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 31 July 2005 - 02:00 PM

Yes...checked with both eyes...as did the others. They were not "star-tested", they were just set up and used. (cuz excited, yanno?..lol). When looking at faint fuzzies...well, they are fuzzy! (not much of a test)..and when looking at globs at 25x, many of them are just "fuzzies" as well...the double cluster and m44 stood out spectacularly at 25x, but I was just viewing causually and stars are rather devoid of "detail", so any SLIGHT 'mis-focusing' is not readily discernible as a lense problem (if noticed at all)...but initially thought of as minor atmospheric anomalies. WHen turned to the moon, 62x was used. THe moon is rife with detail and FOCUS (or lack thereof) is easily indentifiable. Was it atmospherics? No. The right ocular focused perfectly. I do not see how "time" will somehow magically make this situation fix itself. And certainly something could have happened during shipping to cause the problem, without a doubt...point is though, 'something' happened and it is unlikely I can correct it (unless Kevin suggests I turn the collimation screw and that may provide a solution). It may. See what my conversation with him Monday brings forth and report on outcome then. In any event, there is no doubt that Kevin will make things right, and ultimately that is the bottom line. Doesn't make my first's night disappointment much better, but at least I have the confidence of knowing I will not be ripped off should something be deemed 'defective'. :)

Gary

#8 AJTony

AJTony

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 379
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posted 31 July 2005 - 03:08 PM

I really believe what you are reporting, but I'm just curious. Can you see this lack of focus in daylight viewing?

You have me concerned. I will give my binos a careful test for the same problem, but it would be easier to do in daylight.


AJ

#9 EdZ

EdZ

    Professor EdZ

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,849
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2002

Posted 31 July 2005 - 03:44 PM

gary,

do you have a cheshire eyepiece? if so, cap the objective and use it to check both barrels. if you've ever used a cheshire to check refractor collimation, you'll know what you are looking for. If not, compare the good side to the suspect side. you should see concentric reflections off of the objective.

edz

#10 Alby

Alby

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: 12 Feb 2005

Posted 31 July 2005 - 03:51 PM

Savant;

I feel for your woes.....I'm sure Kevin B will make things right!

Don't give up on the mighty BT:)

Alby

#11 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 31 July 2005 - 08:24 PM

Ed...no, I have never used a Cheshire...

AJ...I plan to check during the daytime as well...but if it does focus during the day, and it doesn't focus on the moon, I am not sure what I have accomplished. The goal of this purschase was 50% lunar use.

Gary

#12 AJTony

AJTony

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 379
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:27 PM

Gary,

Thanks for the reply. I guess I was just trying to get some help checking mine out. The night sky here is miserable for any type of serious test, and the Moon up too late. Therefore, I was going to try daytime testing.

Again, good luck with your problem. As you see, we are all sure that Kevin will fix your problem.

AJ

#13 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:48 PM

I do love the look and feel and this set up, its fit and finsih and attention to detail. And my mindset of "grab and go" is totally satisfied with this setup..(takes about 2 mins to set up, and 2mins to break down and stow away....nothing could be simplier!) There were about 25 of us out last night, with scopes covering the whole gambit..and apeture up to an 18" Obsession present. When we all turned to the Double Cluster, the "hit" of the party were the little binos, just due to how elegantly they were presented with the wide-field view. THat and the Pleiades were my 2 fav targets of the night. I am definately very pleased with the CONCEPT of my purchase which drove me to large bino's....now its just the tweaking to get a properly functioning set of big eyes! :)

Gary

#14 btschumy

btschumy

    Vendor - Our Galaxy

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 3,680
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2004

Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:52 PM

When we all turned to the Double Cluster, the "hit" of the party were the little binos, just due to how elegantly they were presented with the wide-field view. THat and the Pleiades were my 2 fav targets of the night.

I just don't see how the binos could perform so well on bright clusters but poorly on the Moon. I would certainly have noticed it if one eye couldn't focus the Pleiades sharply. 'Tis a mystery.

#15 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 31 July 2005 - 11:12 PM

..and when looking at globs at 25x, many of them are just "fuzzies" as well...the double cluster and m44 stood out spectacularly at 25x, but I was just viewing causually and stars are rather devoid of "detail", so any SLIGHT 'mis-focusing' is not readily discernible as a lense problem (if noticed at all)...but initially thought of as minor atmospheric anomalies. WHen turned to the moon, 62x was used. THe moon is rife with detail and FOCUS (or lack thereof) is easily indentifiable. Was it atmospherics? No.

Gary



#16 Pinewood

Pinewood

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,517
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2004

Posted 01 August 2005 - 09:21 AM

Savant,
Did you observe the DSO's at the same 63x magnification?

Clear skies,
Arthur

#17 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 01 August 2005 - 10:13 AM

NO..DSO was all done at about 25x..and unfortunately, this was not so much because of lack of desire to change EP's, but rather, since the tolerances of the adapter is so darn tight, it is a big HASSLE to change EP's (this too is something that I beleive is not quite right with the bino's.)

Kevin is out of town this week, but I spoke with a lady there (not sure her name), and she said that this overly tight fit does not sound right, and they will get another pair out to me ASAP, although she suggested I wait until next week for Kevin to personally check out the next pair....so replacement is up in the air due to circumstances..but the good news is their eagerness to make things right, and how pleasant they are to deal with :)

Gary

#18 Pinewood

Pinewood

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,517
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2004

Posted 01 August 2005 - 10:43 AM

Gary,

If I understand you, all was well at 25x and you first noticed the fuzziness at 62x. I am certainly curious about why and I hope that you may get a satisfactory resolution of your problems.

Clear skies,
Arthur

#19 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:03 AM

I am not sure necessarily if all was well at 25x, but when I first turn the bino's on the moon at 25x, it was more obvious to me that it was not razor sharp and clear. Thats when I made eyepeice changes and really started noticing things. Again, the "out of focus" of the left tube was ever so slight, being glaringly obvious on a target such as the moon, but escaped my observation (for whatever reason), when looking at 'faint fuzzies' and clusters. The customer support seems to be outstanding, and although dissappointing that I will not have these avaiable for me at our big star party next weekend, at least I have the assurance that they will make things right, and in the final analysis, thats really what is most important!

Gary

#20 blandp11

blandp11

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,968
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2005

Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:23 AM

Bummer! I wonder if they were banged up in shipping? In any case, I feel that when making an expensive Astro equipment purchase that if the stuff isn't spot on, back to the dealer it goes.

Philip

Oberwerk BT100-45's
The left assembly would not come into perfect focus (which was not noticable on the previous objects). Gary



#21 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:31 AM

THats certainly a possiblity, although that does not account for the exceedingly over-tight eyepeice problem. Just like there are such wild swings within the Meade and Celestron line-up (ranging from very mediocre to very very good)...so too there must be certain tolerance ranges within these bino's...bearing in mind that they are not "custom hi end hand figured APO's". Seems I just got one of the less then perfect ones. Just like automobiles, I assume that built into the price are such things as 'returns', 'warranty repairs', 'production defect percentiles', etc etc. JUst goes with the territory I suppose and I just happened to be one of the statistics, was just "my time".

Ya always hear that phrase.."when its your time to go...." I hate that. WHat if I am on an airplane and it is someone else's time to go??! (don't know how this fits, but the thought just flashed thru my mind...lol)

Gary

#22 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:40 AM

Question?

Inasmuch that these have to be returned, does anyone have any expereince with these: Miyauchi 22x71 "Saturn II" Binocular, and, do you think they might be a better choice for lunar observation?

Gary

#23 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:46 AM

My BT also has a very tight fit for EPs. I have to really twist the EPs to get them in and out, but I would expect that to the case. I mean consider the alternative--too loose? Over time I think you'll get used to it and/or the EPs slots will become broken in.

As for the left barrel blurring, I would examine the BT a bit more before jumping to the decision to ship them back. If you are then absolutely convinced then..well...they have to go back. I can tell that my right barrel does not focus as perfectly as the other barrel. I know that it is not due to the EPs or my eyes, but let me stress that it is barely noticeable. In fact, it took several observing sessions before I even noticed.

#24 Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*

Guest_**DONOTDELETE**_*
  • -----
  • topic starter

Posted 01 August 2005 - 11:55 AM

Yes nightwatch...it escaped my notice on DSO's....but as I said, hard to not notice on the Moon. Having ANY kind of abberration on the Moon will just not be acceptable to me at all inasmuch this is the primary purpose for the decision to buy these bino's. The tight fit I suppose I could live with, and I noticed that there is no compression ring per-se, but a rubber ring on the inside which i presume will lossen a tad over time. Better tight then loose, to be sure...would hate to point towards the zenith and have EP's falling out! :) Set-screws would have been a much better solution though, IMHO.

Gary

#25 blandp11

blandp11

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,968
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2005

Posted 01 August 2005 - 12:05 PM

You are correct, of course. This is why a good dealer is essential - when one gets optics that don't meet ones expectations. Sounds like your dealer is just that - good.

I agree that no amount of knocking about could make the eyepiece tolerances so tight.

THats certainly a possiblity, although that does not account for the exceedingly over-tight eyepeice problem. Just like there are such wild swings within the Meade and Celestron line-up (ranging from very mediocre to very very goodGary




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics