33 replies to this topic

[Matthew Ota]

After participating in hundreds of astronomy outreach events over the past ten years, I have enjoyed the reactions and how people emote about what they are seeing through the telescope. Gasping. Exclamations. Inhaling.

Last night four hundred clients were present to look through three telescopes. There were long lines. Entire families were taking turns, as well as groups of teenagers.

One father held up his three-old daughter to the eyepiece She could not see it.

It was difficult as the father was behind her. and unfortunately my footstool was not high enough for her to view by herself standing.

after many attempts, the girl just could not see it.

"I don't see it!"
"I still can't see it!"

I told the father to bring her eye closer the the eyepiece as he was holding her too far away.

"I cant't see it!"
" I can't see it!"
"Whaaaaaaaah! whaaaaaaa! whaaaaaaaa!"

The girl was bawling her eyes out.

I was so sorry that she could not see it.
I hope when she is a little older that she will be able to have a more positive experience looking at the Moon, and not psychologically traumatized where she develops a phobia of telescopes.

[Mr Onions]

That's such a shame,maybe catch them next time.

[amicus sidera]

I have had this happen several times over the years, always with a pre-schooler... the parent, regardless of my advice, attempts (and without exception fails) to hold the child both steadily enough and in the correct position for viewing... needless to say, disappointment follows.

I seriously doubt that a child so young would be able to appreciate the view in any event, and would most likely not remember it if they did... and I communicate this to the parent before heroic yet futile efforts are made. Sometimes they listen...

[Skylook123]

Invariably, when a parent holds up a child to the eyepiece, there is so much stress that the child feels, with everyone watching, that a sort of mini-panic sets in. As a result, the child is looking, but not seeing.

There is a bit of psychological stress as well on children, since their experience is to bring the object of intrest to their face, not the other way around; e.g. a spoonfull of cereal, or a book to read. It is as though their visual processing shuts down if they can't acquire the image in the only way they know, to involve their hands as part of the process. I've had a tremendous increase in success with smaller children lately by setting the tripod pretty low when I know that young people will be a big part of the crowd, and using an old walker frame between the stool and the eyepiece. If they have something to hold onto (honestly, even my hand or arm!) their eyes seem to work better. The walker frame has been a wonderful addition, even for the opposite end of the age spectrum. Many seniors are uncomfortable bending over to the eyepiece, and the walker gives them support and confidence.

Below about age six, a vast majority of children don't understand the expectations and really are not necessarily developed in their cognitive thinking to internalize or process what they are seeing. I hate to think that they feel they are somehow at fault for not knowing what they are supposed to be seeing, feeling, or understanding about what they are looking at. If I see that cloud coming over their gaze, I try to break the focus on what they can't do, and shift to something they can, like naked eye sights in the sky and how the Milky Way looks like a river of milk, or some other simple thought to end their experience on an up swing. I don't want them to go away thinking the sky is not for them.

Sort of a long winded way of saying what amicus sidera did above.

[Tim Gilliland]

I do outreach in a parking lot where there is terrible light pollution so if the youngster can't see through the EP I just pop out the iPad and start showing them pretty pictures. I am quite confident I have pleased many parents because you can see the relief in their eyes when they know junior didn't get left out. Mom and Dad seem to enjoy the pics after the scope also. Works great as long as I don't have too many veiwers waiting to take a turn at the EP.

[Mr Onions]

I had two young kids wonder up to the scope with their father tonight but as I only had an 80mm on Telepod it was easy just lowering the legs and centre coloumn.

[Pharquart]

I haven't had too many really young kids try to see through my telescope at outreach events, but I do have the experience of my own kids. I started trying to show them things when they were 5 (they're twins), but it wasn't until they were about 8 before they could use the telescope. And that's in the front yard with a patient father, not a high-stress event where they've waited in line and lots of strangers are around.

The biggest problems I saw with them (like other kids) is that they think they're a pirate and want to grab the eyepiece with their hand while viewing, pushing the telescope off the target. I think there's a minimum age before kids understand to look "through" the eyepiece and not just "at" it. Even binoculars confounded them until about age 7 or 8.

My best bet for most all ages during outreach is a nice wide-field eyepiece with good eye relief.

The suggestions given about other things for young kids are good ones. The iPhone/iPad app that shows the celestial objects as you pan around the sky is really cool for all ages.

Brian

[Wil2010]

Hello.

Thats why Im thinking for really big venues, the video imaging with cameras like the Mallincam would be most beneficial..

Good Luck
WiL

[amicus sidera]

Hello.

Thats why Im thinking for really big venues, the video imaging with cameras like the Mallincam would be most beneficial..

Good Luck
WiL

As a logistical consideration, when large numbers of people are involved, I can see the benefit of using a video display. For anything less than a truly huge crowd, however, I feel that the direct viewing experience will resonate more deeply with the general public... after all, they can watch a space video on their own televisions - viewing actual objects through a telescope, without benefit of electronic intermediaries, remains quite novel.

[skyguy88]

I've been doing video outreach for over five years and could hardly disagree more.

First, everyone can see detailed in-focus views of multiple spectacular objects. You can point out features that people just won't find with verbal instructions. Guests spend all of their time considering astronomy. No long lines to waste their time. Most important, however, is the fact that you can engage your audience in considerable detail. In fifteen minutes you can introduce the notions of stellar evolution and element formation while they're watching the dumbbell nebula. The ideas are so much more persuasive with the rich teal colored (oxygen) nebula.

How do you direct people to Apollo landing sites or rilles or overlapping craters while they are looking in an ep?

How do you show people a SN in M51 when they can barely discern a spiral structure?

From the perspective of the presenter, it is much more interesting to lead a group in a discussion of emission nebulae while all are observing M 42, than to explain repeatedly what to look for in the ep.

For me the bottom line is that a video camera allows me to present a rich and continuous experience, engaging visitors in considerable depth.

Bill

[star drop]

Girl Scouts Brownies and Cub Scouts groups are the youngest children (ages 6-9) that I have had success with. Daisies and Tiger Scouts are too young. For viewing I use a 32mm Televue Widefield eyepiece which has good eye relief and a large eye lens.

[Ira]

The ideal would be to have a mount with two scopes - one with a Mallincam the other for direct viewing.

/Ira

[amicus sidera]

Bill, I am pleased that you have found satsifaction with your methods; however, from what I gather your presentations are constructed along the lines of a scientific lecture.

I approach outreach from an entirely different direction, that of a picturesque, personal and direct experience... a video feed of a galaxy would be anathema to the spirit of the proceedings, regardless of it's potential benefits.

[Ira]

How about this: Put a dummy camera on the telescope and show them Hubble photos on the computer!

[tedbnh]

How about a single scope with a binoviewer, with one side containing an EP for visual and the other side a camera for the video screen? This way people can get an "intro" to what they are going to see on the video as they stand in line, then see the direct visual view (which I agree is more emotionally satisfying).

[Ira]

I think the bino eyepieces are too close together for that to work.

/Ira

[skyguy88]

There are usually a few traditional scopes around for comparison. Saturday night one of our guests looked a a full screen view of M42 in brilliant color and asked why it looked so much more detailed and colorful than what she had just seen in another scope. That lead to a discussion of our eyes, the nature of emission and reflection nebulae, star formation, and more.

That is the way it usually goes. I bring up a view of an object, inject a few ideas about what we are looking at and a discussion develops.

People who come to these events start with at least a minimal interest in astronomy. I try to feed that by expanding their idea pool.

I often inject the number of stars in the milky way...and then add that there are about the same number of galaxies in the universe. That often draws an incredulous, "how do you know that"?, and leads to the HUDF story. Those good questions are my index of how well It's going.

My sense is the that introducing some of the big ideas of astronomy will stimulate expanded interest in our science.

Since this thread started on the subject of kids, I should point out the obvious advantage of the video approach with small people...or folks with visual or physical issues that prohibits them from ep observing.

Regards,

Bill

Bill

[RobbW]

I think the bino eyepieces are too close together for that to work.

/Ira

Not to mention, I think the focal plane for the human eye and the video eyepiece most likely would be different. One would always be out of focus. Best to have two scopes set up and pointing at the same target. One with a camera and the other for visual observation.

[Starry eyes]

For my star parties public and private I use a 5 foot stepladder. I will usually use a 6" F5 Newtonian on a GEM for public views so the eyepiece is at around 52". I can rotate the tube to an ergonomic viewing angle. Then I use a 5 foot step ladder. This helps everyone, even adults.
Many people have not mastered the skill of standing with their eyes closed, let alone peer through a tiny exit pupil with no reference to the earth. The instinct is to hang on to something so even if they don't need to stand on a step they can hang on to the ladder to provide stability. I have been able to get many preschoolers to see the view in this fashion, sans parent. Of course they especially need to cling to something! The key is to provide a hand hold at shoulder height that is not the telescope!

[killdabuddha]

How about a single scope with a binoviewer, with one side containing an EP for visual and the other side a camera for the video screen? This way people can get an "intro" to what they are going to see on the video as they stand in line, then see the direct visual view (which I agree is more emotionally satisfying).

That's what we're gonna do, but with a binoscope with rotating rings. And even the move from one eye to two (where permitted with smaller groups) is an aim to try to hook others.

But 400 people? And for only 3 scopes? Must be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

[charles genovese]

In my experience young children always move foreward to the eyepiece and it ends up between their eyes- they don't get looking through one eye! I always guide their head to get their eye in the correct place(it also keeps their nose from the glass! LOL)I prefer large eye lens eyepieces with large eye relief and and eye cup. Also, everyone has a dominant eye and you have to try both of them to get the correct eye and it is not related to handedness(my stepson is R handed and L eyed).

[GeneT]

We have to be careful with this, but I have asked the parents permission to pick up the child and hold them near the eyepiece. Sometimes I instruct the parents how to hold the child. There are always challenges when doing outreach. However when you show a person an object through a telescope for the first time, you change forever their understanding of the universe and their place in it.

[Starry eyes]

Get the little tyke in control of the experience. Use a Ladder!

[desertstars]

At an outreach event near Tucson, this past weekend (see the thread "Catalina State Park 2-25-12" in this forum) I found myself showing the Moon to several very small children. In all cases but one, if the step ladder I had didn't get them there, a parent did so. I encircled the eyepiece with my thumb and forefinger and said, "Look in this circle I've made with my hand. Just one eye, though!" I then watched for the light from the Moon projected on the face of the child, and pointed out its presence to the parent, who could then use that to line up the little ones' eyes with the image. It worked without exception, and produced some very gratifying responses.

One little girl stated she couldn't reach high enough, and her mother revealed that she was not physically capable of doing the lifting. I volunteered to do so and when the mother said "Okay," put my hands around the kiddo to lift her. The litte girl immediately gasped and said, "Oh, no! Not like that! I'm too tickly! Like this!" Turned on the top step and put her arms around my neck. I saw what she meant and lifted her, perching her on my arm and holding her to the eyepiece, with the mother (making a valiant effort not to laugh) directing eye to eyepiece. The Moon was viewed long enough that my arm started to cramp, then I got a big hug and off they went.

And people wonder why we do this stuff.

[tedbnh]

Parents seem to feel like they have to be the one to cover the child's eye (when this is needed to help the child use just one eye to observe.) But this never works well.

I have begun to tell the child, "cover your eye with one hand like a Pirate." They immediately know what to do (Pirates wear eyepatches, of course) and this leaves only one eye to look into the eyepiece. Voila, no more Cyclops events when the eyepiece ends up in the middle of the forehead...

So just mention Pirates and the kids usually figure it out from there.