494 replies to this topic

[warbird]

Thank you!
Scope is a small 70mm f/6 refractor. Ikharos 70 ED
It is strange to see so much with such a small telescope! But fun...

[svrider1000]

I finally got my camera working with my low end iOptron 80mm @f5 Achro refractor. I am still trying to figure out the setting on the camera but I did set it up at 1024 like they showed us in the YouTube video above. I am going to try it on my 4 inch refractor tomorrow night hopefully to see if the images improve. These were taken without a Barlow and are single shots from SharpCap.

[Live_Steam_Mad]

Anyone tried a cheap-ish camera with x1024 (20.4 seconds integration time @625 lines output, or 17 seconds @525 lines) with 1/2" sensor instead of 1/3" ?

Would like to get a wider view with 8" @F3.3 but without the IMHO huge expense of Mallincam.

BTW MUST be remote control capable.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[mattflastro]

Anyone tried a cheap-ish camera with x1024 (20.4 seconds integration time @625 lines output, or 17 seconds @525 lines) with 1/2" sensor instead of 1/3" ?

Would like to get a wider view with 8" @F3.3 but without the IMHO huge expense of Mallincam.

BTW MUST be remote control capable.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

The Sony icx672/673 sensors ( although 1/3" ) are more sensitive than any Sony 1/2" CCD , due to being their latest generation technology. Because of this, there are no new CCTV cameras with 1/2" Sony sensors .
However, you can still get a wider field of view with the 1/3".
You can use the x.33 reducer on the scope with an additional 1.25" x.5 focal reducer on the camera , or use a variable extension from the .33 reducer to the camera (without the .5 reducer) . The effective reduction is more than .33 , can get down to x.22-x.25 . Just place the .33 reducer right on the scope rear SCT thread without any visual back, no eyeopener or any other device. Then figure out the maximum spacing from the .33 reducer to the camera for which you can still focus the scope with the primary mirror focuser. The limiting factor will be the focus travel, you will reach the maximum reduction factor when the focus travel is almost at the end . Leave just a tiny bit of travel for refocusing .

[Live_Steam_Mad]

Thanks. BTW out of curiosity, how much is the cheapest 2/3" format CCTV camera? Anyone got a link to one?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[mclewis1]

The Sony icx672/673 sensors (although 1/3") are more sensitive than any Sony 1/2" CCD, due to being their latest generation technology. Because of this, there are no new CCTV cameras with 1/2" Sony sensors .

And a lot of folks are waiting with baited breath on those 2400+mv 1/2 and 2/3" sensors.

Just imagine a 50% increase in basic sensitivity compared to an ExView HAD chip ... but it's going to take some exceptional noise reduction capabilities to make cameras based on these new chips really useful for faint dso work.

Come on Sony ...

[ccs_hello]

... how much is the cheapest 2/3" format CCTV camera? ...

Oh no. SONY type-2/3" CCD designed for video (NTSC or PAL) applications is a dinosaur. Last seen in 1997, about 15 years ago: ICX082/ICX083 and ICX062/063. They are B&W only and are in pre-SuperHAD era!

Oh yeah, with recent technology improvement, type-1/2" CCD for video has ceased the new development on that format.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello

[Live_Steam_Mad]

I accept that is true for CCTV applications for PAL and NTSC video, after trying a search for them, but a quick visit to the Sony Broadcast and Professional website shows quite a few 2/3" CCD camcorders (still tape based HDCAM, and XDCAM which is optical disc based!). The technology is called "Power HAD". I wonder what the sensitivity of them is like compared to the ICX672 / 3 ?

http://www.sony.co.u...w-650p/overview

Also found this ;-

http://www.jencam.de...F2/5B9A/D911...

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[ccs_hello]

Alistair,

I referred to the NTSC/PAL type of standard resolution video CCD, not broadcast/studio type of special SONY HD CCD .
Ever checked SONY broadcast division's price tag ?

BTW, I hope they just reused the term PowerHAD in modern days, since PowerHAD CCD has been introduced/used in 1995-1996 era. That's also pre-SuperHAD.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello

[mattflastro]

I accept that is true for CCTV applications for PAL and NTSC video, after trying a search for them, but a quick visit to the Sony Broadcast and Professional website shows quite a few 2/3" CCD camcorders (still tape based HDCAM, and XDCAM which is optical disc based!). The technology is called "Power HAD". I wonder what the sensitivity of them is like compared to the ICX672 / 3 ?

http://www.sony.co.u...w-650p/overview

Also found this ;-

http://www.jencam.de...F2/5B9A/D911...

Cheers,

Alistair G.

Those are monochrome 2/3" CCD's . When it says 3CCD it means there are 3 monochrome chips with a prism/dichroic beamsplitter assembly to feed each ccd one of the 3 color .

[S.Boerner]

I see where there is also a bullet version of the camera:
http://www.aliexpres...CCD-II-700TV...

While I don't have this camera in a bullet model, I do have a similar one from another supplier (650TVL SONY Super HAD CCD II, 0.001 Lux Sense-up x512 Starlight, & 1024x electronic shutter). I'll admit that the weather here has been bad enough that I have not tried out the camera at night, but the adapter described below seems to work well in daylight.

It was very easy to make an adapter that lets me mount the adapter to a 1.25" focuser or C/CS mount lens on one side and the bullet camera on the other. The advantage is that the camera can have continuous spacing so I don't have to resort to fixed spacers in the path. The adapter is a 2" block of wood with a 1.25" hole 3/4" deep on one end and a hole for the camera through the block on the other. I can mount the barrel of a 1.25" eyepiece OR C/CS ring on the 1.25" end with a grub screw. The camera slides in & out of the other end. It makes connecting the camera to various zoom lenses or focal reducers an easy job.

This camera/adapter combination makes using my 12-240mm CCTV zoom lens with 2x extender and keeping focus through the entire zoom range a piece of cake! That's something I could never do with my SDC-435.

You may wish to check out the bullet profile of the IN-TECH camera.

[mattflastro]

I see where there is also a bullet version of the camera:
http://www.aliexpres...CCD-II-700TV...

While I don't have this camera in a bullet model, I do have a similar one from another supplier (650TVL SONY Super HAD CCD II, 0.001 Lux Sense-up x512 Starlight, & 1024x electronic shutter).

The Lntech camera at the link you posted is _not_ another version of the camera . It is a different camera using a different simpler DSP , RJ8 , which does not support sense up.
It would be good to know what bullet camera do you have that supports sens-up and slow shutter ? ( exact model and vendor or manufacturer ). That way people who want to use your useful adaptation idea would get a tested camera that works rather than one that only looks like it might work.
Thanks

[S.Boerner]

Sorry about saying the cameras were the same. I saw bullet posted on the Macro-Snowball site and jumped to the wrong conclusion.

The bullet I have is:
http://www.securityc...VL-Starlight...

While the manual doesn't say it, it does have 1024x electronic shutter, x512 sense-up, but only low/medium/high AGC. I won't say that the camera is fully
tested. I've had it for a month and have only seen the output on an LCD TV.

Here's a pic of the camera, .5x focal reducer, adapter, and flip mirror on my 12" collapsible SkyWatcher dob.

Attached Thumbnails

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[mattflastro]

Sorry about saying the cameras were the same. I saw bullet posted on the Macro-Snowball site and jumped to the wrong conclusion.

The bullet I have is:
http://www.securityc...VL-Starlight...

While the manual doesn't say it, it does have 1024x electronic shutter, x512 sense-up, but only low/medium/high AGC. I won't say that the camera is fully
tested. I've had it for a month and have only seen the output on an LCD TV.

Here's a pic of the camera, .5x focal reducer, adapter, and flip mirror on my 12" collapsible SkyWatcher dob.

That's a good idea .
I'm wondering though if the wooden block is not too much of a thermal insulator . A "final" version made of aluminum could reduce the CCD temperature significantly compared to the wood. Think about it like the best noise reduction tool. If the CCD temp drops 12 degrees, its noise drops to 25% . You could increase exposure time fourfold without any noise increase. I think that would be the most bang for the buck improvement in your setup.

[mattflastro]

Post deleted by mattflastro

[jambi99]

We understood the first time

[mattflastro]

We understood the first time

I apologize for the multiple posts. I only posted one message during a time the forum server was apparently very sluggish. The forum window went blank and stopped responding or was waiting for the server . I closed the window. I saw now that it had posted 6 or 7 copies of the same msg at the same time .

[jambi99]

Hehe i was just kidding.

[Moromete]

Does the Lntech 300 have AES (Auto Electronic Shutter)?

I suppose AES makes a CCTV not good for video astronomy because it never keeps the exposure fixed by the user.

How can you stop AES if it isn't such a setting on the OSD of the CCTV?

[Moromete]

What do you think about this camera http://www.novuscctv.com/en/node/8060 ?

It has Sony Super HAD CCD II sensor, Mechanical IR filter and 20s (PAL) integration time with DSS (Digital Slow Shutter). The price is ~100 Euro.

[Moromete]

Anyone?

[ccs_hello]

No detailed users manual to look into to see if it can fit in the astro video applications.

BTW, there are plenty of new videocams start showing up in the market. Not just this one. Guessing is not a good strategy. Buy one then found out if it's not a good fit (by luck) is also not good.

With all recent findings, e.g., AES lock-down (or lack of manual control) is not so good. These details can't be easily obtained.
P.S. you have to hack the videocam's firmware to defeat that which is an easy job for the mfg (but LNtech said no and unwilling to escalate to the camera DSP's vendor RJ Elec <-- it's the "who pays the Engineering Cost" game) but extremely difficult for us.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello

[Moromete]

Here is the user manual http://www.novuscctv...webfm_send/3114 . Please have a look.

[yaesu77]

Possible that there is such a camera that transmits in wifi? I'd like to receive the image on my Android device.

[jambi99]

You could use a laptop and connect the camera using a frame grabber to it. Then remotely control\view the lapop using a vnc client on your android device.Just look for vnc connectivity. This will require wifi network. I think its the easiest and cheapest way to do it.