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iPad vs. Android tablet?

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#126 Darenwh

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:50 PM

3GS to 5 would be mind-blowing :)


I hope so. I will be able to tell you soon as I should have my Iphone 5 at the end of the week. My 3GS will be leaving soon after that.
Daren

#127 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:43 PM

John: and sometimes they never mess with the OS, and you're left with an old, out of date device because new software won't run on it even though the hardware is capable.. even more frustrating (especially when a nasty bug is never patched!)



Most often what I get is an older device that won't run the newer OS because it is bloated and filled with features that are unnecessary... For a mature operating system, i.e. Windows, it has been quite some time since I have seen any "new" software that is better than the software I am currently running.

Dosbox is awesome...

Jon

#128 psonice

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:24 AM

Most often what I get is an older device that won't run the newer OS because it is bloated and filled with features that are unnecessary... For a mature operating system, i.e. Windows, it has been quite some time since I have seen any "new" software that is better than the software I am currently running.

Dosbox is awesome...

Jon


Windows is a different kettle of fish, it's easy to upgrade yourself and updates are available to everyone for the lifetime of the OS. Plus it was a mature OS (XP is still perfectly usable, but try running metro apps on it.. windows isn't looking so mature nowadays!).

I'm thinking more of the millions of android phones + tablets out there that are stuck on 2.x, but are perfectly capable of running 3/4.x. Many would actually get a big performance boost as well as new features and compatibility with apps that need the later OSes. And developers are a bit hamstrung because too many phones are stuck on an old OS that lacks important features. It's always better to turn down a bad update than not have it available at all :(

#129 Darenwh

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:12 AM

I suspect that the Windows phone's and tablet devices are going to have a major impact on the market in the next five years. Though Apple IOS is a great OS there are far to many people out there who feel restricted by it's limitations. The sad part of that it is Apple that places those limitations on the IOS. As Windows 8 OS is released and a large push is made to get various hardware manufacturers to embrace it along with developers I think the price point will be just too good for the public to resist it. That, combined with developers, many of whom, will see it as a new growing stable platform that they identify with from their windows days, will result in large growth for these devices. It just seems likely that it will have all the ducks in a row to begin to eat into Apple's pie...

Cheap Hardware + Strong Developer Base + Large User Base = Trouble For Apple.

Android has had problems due to the restrictions that hardware manufacturers and telephone companies have placed on the devices. In order for the OS to do well the devices have to be able to be upgraded to the current software versions. This can lead to problems down the road if a piece of hardware does not have the power to run the OS but if the large number of devices out there cause large numbers of versions of the OS to be present then this leads to a nightmare for developers and users who must wade through the various issues involved with supporting so many versions of the OS. For this reason, though Android has done OK, this has really limited Android's growth potential resulting in Apple remaining the dominant force in Tablet and Phone's up to this time. Will Android do better in the future? Perhaps now that it seem to have matured to a very good OS but only if Google limit's how often it updates the OS for a period of time. They need to get a strong number of devices out there all running the same version of the OS with little customization of the OS on the device so that developers and users can gain confidence in the OS. Without this they could still fail even with as many devices as they have out there now.

So, where will we be in ten years? My prediction is that either Microsoft Windows OS or Google Android OS will be dominate and Apple, once again, will return to where it has been in the market in the past with computers. That is, it will dominate a niche market of individuals who value the OS and Apple hardware for it's extra stability while the rest of the market persues the other dominate OS's for their stronger (and cheaper) hardware and more open software environments.

That's my prediction for the coming years. But what do I know? I'm the one getting an IPhone 5 in under a week.

#130 simpleisbetter

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:15 AM

I seem to recall an announcement by Google about a month or so back that they're going to begin requiring a certain amount of standardization, and restricting how much a phone manufacturer can customize the OS. But I believe that it's only for the purpose of allowing Google to be able to update the OS which they currently can't do on all phones, but not so much lockdown and absolute control as Apple currently has on theirs. That will also go a long way to helping app developers since they'll only have to worry about writing to one set of standards and code.

#131 Darenwh

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:42 AM

I agree that will help developers out alot. This could go a long ways towards improving the Android platform. This is what is necessary for Android to succeed. In the PC world we had two truly well received standards through the years, Apple and Microsoft, with Unix flavors living on the fringe. I suspect that with Androids standardization we could end up with three standards in the future, Windows and Android as the primary's with Apple as a third platform the same way that the Macintosh has in the last 30 years in the PC world. If you don't think Apple can go this way consider that the Apple II was once very popular for home use as well as at schools and business's yet Apple was far from being a major factor in the Home or Business PC's through out the last 30 years. The Apple II's were in many ways superior to what IBM (with Microsoft OS) offered at that time yet IBM based systems (running Microsoft DOS) went on to become the standard, not because of superior capabilities, but because the hardware was much cheaper.

#132 psonice

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:15 AM

Daren: you're assuming a few things there (with regard to windows) that might be a bit wide of the mark. The first (and most important) thing is that there's going to be windows 8 tablets, windows RT tablets, and windows 8 phones. While they'll share the same kernel, there's actually large differences between them.

Looking specifically at tablets, standard windows 8 tablets won't be competitive with the ipad in the mainstream. They'll cost a lot more, and they'll be bigger and heavier with worse battery life. On the plus side, they'll run full windows with great compatibility and support for extra hardware etc.

Windows RT tablets are going to be based on similar hardware to the ipad, but they won't run regular windows software and probably won't be compatible with regular pc hardware, so a huge chunk of windows advantage is already gone. Also, microsoft is basically copying apple - not in terms of the OS (which actually looks pretty good and innovative), but in terms of app store restrictions etc. AFAIK you're going to get your apps from the windows app store, which MS will regulate in the same way apple does.

There's no guarantee the hardware will be any cheaper too, because apple's tablet prices are actually highly competitive. Look at the android tablets, and you'll see the ones with similar level hardware specs are often similarly priced (and sometimes more expensive). There's the low end where apple don't compete, of course. Windows tablets will have an additional problem too - the manufacturers have to pay MS for the OS. Apple obviously builds that cost in, but google gives away their OS pretty much for free. MS are reportedly charging quite a lot for windows, which is going to push prices up or margins down.

It's not even regular windows for developers. And they're not making it easy for devs so far too - I've looked into porting some of my camera software to WP8, because it looks like it could be a lot better than iOS for what I do (especially with nokia and their great cameras onboard!). It was basically "invite only" though for at least the parts of the developer program I'm interested in - I gave up at that point.

I suspect that if it's going to succeed, it'll be the RT models, and it'll be succeeding effectively as a "new platform" rather than as a continuation of windows' success. Longer term hopefully the intel/win8 models will get a lot more competitive with the ARM/RT models on price and battery life, then we'll have something like what I think you're expecting. Maybe in 2-3 years :)

I hope it does succeed though, because win 8, as much as I hate it on the desktop, looks like it could be great for phone + tablet use.

#133 Darenwh

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:59 PM

I realize that the tablets will be different but I beleive that the fact they are part of the windows experience (even if in name only) will be enough to generate sales. I imagine this is going to have quite an impact on desktop design in the future. I suspect it will become much more common for desktops to be mounted as part of the desk, with a tilted dispaly at about 45 degree's so that it will be easily within reach of the hands while being easily visible to the user. The mouse will still be used for many tasks but perhaps not as much as it is now. I believe the keyboard will remain though a soft keyboard may become an option for some who don't do alot of data input. No matter how we look at it though, the next five to ten years will be pivital in the way the future goes. It will be interesting to see how things go in the coming years. I suspect that many people felt that with the Apple's dominance in homes in the early 80's and later Commodore's that it's a miracle that the PC (IBM Systems at the time, later Microsoft OS powered systems) stayed as the dominant computer in business. Apple has the lead now but I suspect that is a temporary thing. I think we will see either Android or Microsoft as the dominant OS for both Phones and Tablets in the future.

#134 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:55 PM

My gut feeling is that Microsoft just never quite gets it... they buy successful companies that have developed successful strategies, successful technologies, that is the Microsoft way. But they couldn't buy Google...

My gut feeling is that the Android OS represents the open system for the phone/tablet market that DOS/Windows represented 20 years ago for the Desktop/Laptop market.

What distinguished Microsoft/Intel/AMD etc from Apple was the open architecture. Apple was/is the old model, the mainframe model, DEC, IBM, the manufacturer provided both the hardware and operating system. While this gives them control, allows for higher profits, it limits the growth capability because there is little incentive for third parties to get involved.

When Compaq showed the way with it's clean room version of the IBM bios, this represented the opportunity for small developers with an idea to develop it and market it. This resulted in a huge industry of third party companies and the sometimes faulty design of the Intel platform was overshadowed by the opportunity to make money... problems became opportunities...

At some point, Apple, forced to develop their product essentially by themselves, threw up their hands and accepted that on the hardware front, they had been beaten.

I see that currently the Android OS represents this same opportunity. Apple has control of their OS, of their hardware, but they are forced to do it all themselves in order to retain this control. The Android provides independent hardware and software developers the opportunity to put their ideas in the marketplace...

This represents creativity on a world wide scale that is difficult to compete with....If history repeats itself, at some point, maybe iPads will be running on Apple Android platforms with a hardware tweak to keep the Apple iOS from running on standard Androids and those still running iOS will be dual boot iOS/Androids...

Jon

#135 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:22 AM

2 years seems a bit soon to upgrade; I guess it depends on your needs, use and cash flow.


Agreed. What forces the issue is when something wears out or breaks, and you need to put new money in.

#136 rboe

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:15 PM

:p Trying to download an app and upgrade two and the app store is swamped with IO6 upgrades.

#137 Darenwh

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:00 PM

iPhone 5 is very nice. Far faster than the 3GS I had previously. The larger screen seems just right. I'm very happy with it.


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