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The new Universe is in and working

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#26 Relativist

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 01:03 PM

Can you please describe again what a 'single frame' means here? I'm assuming it's a certain amount of time exposed.

Also, what I have been hoping for personally is the ability to digitally produce 1080p "video". While it doesn't seem to be the main use for this camera I'm curious how it will perform for such output.

#27 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

Curtis what I mean by single is these images are not stacked using multiple sub exposures. At F6.3 they were shorter exposures than the F10 as expected. Here were the times involve

M13 @ F6.3 45 Secs
M27 @ F6.3 90 Secs
M13 @ F10 150 Secs
M27 @ F10 240 Secs
M57 @ F10 180 Secs
M92 @ F10 150 Secs

The images are raw meaning NO post processing including calibration. Also this MC Universe does not have the hyper circuitry and deeper cooling like the official released model. Having the hyper circuitry would have lowered the exposure time by 30% so for e.g. the M27 @ F10 would have taken only 168 Secs instead of 240 Secs. Also with the new binning option at 2 x 2 the 168 secs would now take only 42 Secs at half the resolution though.

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#28 nytecam

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

Hi Maurice

I thought Lorence posted a link to my site showing some shorter single none processed captures using my C9.25 at both F6.3 & F10. I will post these 4 images again just in case. Chris A - Astrogate

Thanks Chris - excellent images - as noted CN TOS on file size don't favour 6Mp images :o But some close crops would be nice too :grin:

Attached sketch of M42 shows approx fov with Universe [APS sensor] against Xtreme cam computed via Megastar with your 1480mm fl scope eg 9.25" f/6.3 SCT eg fov ~x9 larger ;)

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5411937-mcfov.jpg


#29 jrcrilly

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:22 PM

Also this MC Universe does not have the hyper circuitry and deeper cooling like the official released model.


Is this one a stock model as received from the manufacturer or has it been modified by MC but less extensively than the current MC model?

#30 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:09 PM

Here are some crops of the images that I posted using the MC Universe and my C9.25. Please keep in mind that these are only a one short none processed image with tweaking done only using the MC Universe software. The 1st image is M13 @ F6.3

Chris A

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5412235-M13 F6.3 1x 45 Sec gain at 16 db AWB Mallincam Universe (800 x 800).jpg


#31 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:13 PM

The 2nd is a crop of my M13 @ F10

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5412245-M13 F10 150 seconds gain at 16 db AWB Mallincam Universe (938 x 900).jpg


#32 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:16 PM

The 3rd is a crop of the M27 image at F6.3

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5412252-M27 F6.3 1x 90 Sec gain at 18 db AWB Mallincam Universe (800 x 800).jpg


#33 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:17 PM

The 4th image is a crop of M27 @ F10

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5412255-M27 F10 4 min gain at 18 db AWB Mallincam Universe (1114 x 964).jpg


#34 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:18 PM

The 5th is a crop of my M57 image @ F10

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5412258-M57 F10 3 min gain at 16 db AWB Mallincam Universe (848 x 788).jpg


#35 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:19 PM

The 6th and final image is a crop of M92 @ F10

Chris A
Astrogate

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5412261-M92 F10 150 seconds gain at 16 db AWB Mallincam Universe (765 x 665).jpg


#36 Chris A

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:37 PM

John the camera that I was using was one of the 1st MC Universe prototypes designed by Rock Mallin. After many tests Rock decided to incorporate his ingenious hyper circuitry into is latest camera design.

Chris A

#37 jgraham

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:44 PM

The color looks wonderful. The resolution looks typical for an APS-C size chip. No odd artifacts. Very nice.

#38 mclewis1

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:36 PM

Also, what I have been hoping for personally is the ability to digitally produce 1080p "video". While it doesn't seem to be the main use for this camera I'm curious how it will perform for such output.

Curtis,

The Universe doesn't have any video out capability, it's a single shot CCD camera with a USB interface. With it's software it can take a series of 5s, 10s, 30s or however long exposures you want and continue to do so until stopped. The software will display the image as it's downloaded from the camera and then update it when the next image is available. With the download times factored in you could see a continuous series of images every 5s or so (and maybe a little less), this would look something like really high resolution (higher than HD) video with a very very slow frame rate (12 frames/minute).

Real HD video with low noise and enough sensitivity to view anything but the brightest DSOs currently seems to be impossible with commercial cameras. It's not a problem on brighter stuff (witness the number of great solar system HD cameras for example). But with the constant improvements in sensors, amplifiers, and channels I think we're getting closer to your goal.

#39 nytecam

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:31 AM

The 4th image is a crop of M27 @ F10

Very nice crop Chris - taken liberty of a contrast tweak & rotate below :grin:

Future s/w options to merge binned 2x2 'fast mode' colour + unbinned luminance will be interesting :bow:

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5412751-chrism27uni2.jpg


#40 Chris A

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:54 AM

Great job done Maurice! This shows with just a touch of tweaking just how nice the images accually can look in such short exposure times with no stacking or stack several and get even better results.

Cheers,

Chris A

#41 mpgxsvcd

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:58 AM

Wow those look great. That looks like a fantastic camera.

#42 mclewis1

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

Yep, with it's nice big (well relatively big) smooth (class 0) and sensitive sensor, low noise high gain amplifiers, and deep cooling the camera is going to give folks lots of good signal to work with.

Can't wait to see some longer exposure stacked shots from dark sites (displayed in another forum of course ... :lol: )

Nice tweaks Maurice.

#43 Lorence

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:41 PM

Also, what I have been hoping for personally is the ability to digitally produce 1080p "video". While it doesn't seem to be the main use for this camera I'm curious how it will perform for such output.

Curtis,

The Universe doesn't have any video out capability, it's a single shot CCD camera with a USB interface. With it's software it can take a series of 5s, 10s, 30s or however long exposures you want and continue to do so until stopped. The software will display the image as it's downloaded from the camera and then update it when the next image is available. With the download times factored in you could see a continuous series of images every 5s or so (and maybe a little less), this would look something like really high resolution (higher than HD) video with a very very slow frame rate (12 frames/minute).

Real HD video with low noise and enough sensitivity to view anything but the brightest DSOs currently seems to be impossible with commercial cameras. It's not a problem on brighter stuff (witness the number of great solar system HD cameras for example). But with the constant improvements in sensors, amplifiers, and channels I think we're getting closer to your goal.



The binning modes of the new software will make visual/video a little more interesting.

Full resolution is 3032 x 2018 pixels. 2x2 bin is 1516 x 1008. 4 x 4 bin images are 756 x 504 pixels. Exposure and image download times are significantly reduced in 2 x 2 and even more in 4 x 4.

I view on a screen with 1920 x 1080 resolution. A full resolution image is too big to fit on the screen. For practical purposes I'll probably leave the camera on 2 x 2 in use.

The cameras software is doing this anyway. Full resolution and 2 x 2 images are shown in the same sized window which takes up about 3/4 of the screen. 4 x 4 images appear to display as actual size, comparable to the image size of an Xtreme with the software I use.

Clear skies forecast tonight. I'll be able to do a bit more testing. I am particularly interested in the 4 x 4 mode and comparing the Universe sensitivity and image download times with Long Exposure Xtreme times. I already have a fair idea of what to expect based on what I've done so far but a fair idea may be far from what I will find from actually using the camera. Better to wait for the results than to post without really knowing.

#44 Teabagger

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:31 PM

I wonder if the software will work with other ccd's......

#45 A. Viegas

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:44 PM

Lorence,

Please post some side x side comparisons of Universe + Extreme at similar integration times, it will be very interesting to see the difference...

Al

#46 Chris A

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:32 PM

I appreciate it thanks again!

Chris A

#47 Chris A

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:35 PM

Lorence you do not have to always use the 2 x 2 bin mode and might not want to esp. when your using a focal reducer or very short focal length telescope. What you can do also is use the MC Universes software cropping tool which crops to any size you choose and maintains that crop even upon the next refresh.

Cheers,

Chris A
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#48 Chris A

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:35 PM

No it will not it is strickly made for the MC Universe.

Chris A

#49 Teabagger

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:39 PM

No it will not it is strickly made for the MC Universe.

Chris A


yes it might be made "strickly" for the universe.That does not mean it wont work with other ccd's.

#50 jgraham

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:10 PM

The software is key to making something like this work for observing. I've described before how useful Envisage is for observing (at least for me). If someone could only write a generic program that could work with any camera that would be a huge step forward for camera assisted observing. In the mean time Envisage serves me well. I just came in from a session exploring planetary nebula from Aquarius up through Aquila and over to Andromeda.

Neat stuff.


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