I got bored. Since I knew this thread would still be going, I figured I`d post in it at least once more to relieve the boredom.
[quote name="erik"] EXACTLY HOW MANY PEOPLE OWN A 16 INCH REFRACTOR? [/quote]
Such large refractors are so good that they`re usually used by professionals and are often found in observatories, museums, universities, etc.
Besides, I stated, "at = apertures up to around 16", refractors will stomp ALL over newts, showing much more detail in dso`s also." This is true regardless of how many observers own large refractors or large reflectors.
But if you really want to know, there`s 1000`s of observers who own refractors UP TO 16".
Some own large ones. In fact, just at this site alone, there`s plenty of reviews of refractors ALL THE WAY UP TO 10" in aperture. Sure, more people own large newts. But that still doesn`t change the fact, as stated throughout this thread, that refractors will stomp ALL over newts in almost every way optically at = apertures up to around 16".
[quote] ALMOST ANY NEWT 8 INCHES OR LARGER...WILL STOMP ALL OVER THE MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE REFRACTOR. [/quote]
...just some and most certainly not at = apertures.
[quote] NEWT 8 INCHES OR LARGER(AND THERES PLENTY OF THEM! [/quote]
There`s plenty of both. But even if there were a million more larger newts, it still wouldn`t change the fact that refractors will stomp ALL over newts at = apertures in almost every way optically ALL the way up to around 16" of aperture.
[quote] BECAUSE WHILE YOUR LOOKING AT A FEATURELESS BLOB OF A GALAXY IN YOUR 4 INCH REFRACTOR, I'LL BE STUDYING INTRICATE DETAILS IN MY 8 INCH (AND SOON IN MY 16 INCH)NEWT [/quote]
...and galaxies, viewed by both amateur and professional astronomers, in 8" refractors make galaxies seen in 8" newts look like featureless blobs by comparison, (regardless of how many such refractors and newts there are.). This is true for 16" of aperture also, (again, regardless of how many such scopes there are.).
Btw, I might see more fine detail in 1 of my refractors than you will in your 8" newt since I sketch and have Learned the Fine Art of Seeing and you may not have learned this yet. A trained eye will see much more in a small scope than an untrained eye will see in a much larger scope. Our club`s done tests on this and have found this to be true over and over again. You`d be shocked
at just how many amateurs still haven`t Learned to See yet. So I might see more than you just like this guy might also,http://www.cloudynig...tion/suburb.htm
especially if you haven`t Learned to See yet.
[quote] Hey Dude, i think you scared everybody now. [/quote]
...and maybe if we`re lucky, I`ll scare em enough to put an end to this thread!!!
[quote] I should sell my
14.5" Zambuto equipped Reflector and buy a 5" apo, NOT [/quote]
Of course NOT. Keep that 14.5" Zambuto. I`m sure it`s an excellent performer for your viewing preferences and viewing area. But I`d want BOTH!!!
[quote] "refractor sharp" probably means that your only using 100x magnification [/quote]
...over 100x/inch with images remaining sharp is more like it just like most Apos and excellent long-focus achromats are known for. Our club members have seen this numerous times!
[quote] that little guy can't handle much more due to its limited aperture. [/quote]
Over 400x and 500x on good nights of seeing is much more than 100x according to everyone I know!
[quote] i know that's not a fair comparison, but you're saying that a 6 inch newt with zambuto optics can't keep up with your 5 inch APO? [/quote]
You`re overlooking one very important point. According to many theories, an excellent 5" TMB, etc., Apo should be able to outperform a 6" newt of about the same, (most aren`t), or worse quality even with Zambuto optics in good seeing, etc., more often than not, although I admit that it was very close in some cases.
[quote] my 8 inch newt with discovery mirrors(quite a few steps down from zambuto, i'm sure) blows away the views in any 5 or 6 inch refractor i've ever looked through. [/quote]
...which only means you got an excellent sample and just happen to collimate it not just well but perfectly. CONGRATS!!!
But according to many theories once again, an excellent, perfectly-collimated 8" newt with good Discovery mirrors and only a 23% CO should outperform 5" and 6" refractors in good seeing conditions, etc.
[quote] even when i had the chinese made orion mirrors in my scope, they couldn't touch it. [/quote]
...and according to many theories, they still shouldn`t have been able to. But it should`ve been closer. Of course an 8" Apo would still stomp ALL over it in most ways optically. Btw, such HUGE refractors are readily available to universities and their Astronomy Professors, Astronomy Majors, Astronomy Minors, numerous others, etc., to observatories and the professionals who may work there, who ever else works there, etc., to museums and to who ever works there, the general public, (in fact, we`ve got a HUGE refractor in our science museum downtown.), some very lucky, individual amateurs, etc. As I stated earlier in this thread, TMB sells Apos as big as 16."
[quote] sorry for the CAPS in my last post [/quote]
[quote] don't want to make anyone mad or anything......... [/quote]
...nothing to worry about. You haven`t!
Btw, just in case you don`t believe me about most of this, here`s some exs. of many from ALL over the internet of 4" TMB Apos outperforming much larger scopes in almost every way, including a well-collimated C-8 in one review where the reviewer thought he was getting a 2nd scope which turned out replacing his C-8 as his primary scope and of a 4" TMB =ing the performance of both an 8" and 10" newt on dso`s,http://www.cloudynig...views4/sct2.htm
For those who didn`t read it,
"To be honest, I had been kind of hoping to break down the APO myth a little here. I’d really hoped and expected a Gentleman’s draw, with the APO producing the finer images and wider fields, but the SCT trouncing it in reach and detail. It just didn’t work out like that. Over a number of nights of careful comparison, repeatedly swapping the same eyepiece between the two, the APO won decisively. Particularly surprising to me was the Moon, where I had anticipated an easy win for the C8. Even hampered by the poorer diagonal (I ended up using the TV everbrite exclusively on the C8 to give it the best chance) and all the extra glass in the PowerMate, the APO still produced better images, with more detail on most of the objects viewed.
The APO is undoubtedly a more pleasing telescope to use than the Celestron. It’s quick to set up and cool down, giving gorgeous, crisp images, even in poor conditions. It will give of its best over a wide range of objects, on days when you only have an hour to spare. It’s a superb all-purpose instrument, capable of a good showing on everything from star fields through planets. But none of this explains why it beat an 8 inch reflector – in theory it simply shouldn’t have.
I bought the APO expecting ease-of-use and convenience. I did not expect it to replace the C8, my intention being to keep the larger instrument for nights when I had time to use it. In most ways the APO outperforms it.
I find myself reading APO reviews. I started off my astronomy ‘career’ as a ‘reflector man’ all those years ago, but the superb TMB has converted me."
The reviewer states that he checked his C-8 for any thing that might have caused the C-8 to under-perform. He couldn`t find anything wrong or out of the ordinary, etc! http://www.cloudynig...iews/tmb105.htm
For those who didn`t read it, here`s just a sampling,
"On deep sky targets, the TMB showed its merits by providing quite satisfactory views of the Crab Nebula and the planetary NGC 2022 in Orion. Actually, I was side-by-side with an Orion XT-10 dob and an 8-inch ATM dob. The Crab was not as bright in the TMB, but every bit as easy to spot as it was in the dobs! Once again, the legendary contrast of the refractor gives bigger reflectors a run for their money.
The most impressive sight on one of the nights, was the Double Cluster with the Nagler Type 4/22mm. I had never seen the progressively fainter stars in so much pinpoint detail, gradually disappearing into the black background! A breathtaking sight that captured my attention for an extended period."
For those who don`t believe that a trained eye will see more in a small scope than an untrained eye will see in a much larger scope,http://www.cloudynig...tion/suburb.htmhttp://www.cloudynig...ary drawing.htm
I may post again if I get bored. Heaven knows we can keep going back and forth forever if we wanted. So I`m sure this thread will still be going the next time I become bored enough to post in it!
Hope ALL this Helps.
Clear, STEADY Skies!