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Edmund 6" early grey Pier

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#26 mooNSpy250

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:11 PM

I am just wrapping up some minor upgrades to my new ES4001.. Even though the 4001 sits in a sling, it sufferers from "slippage also" so I picked up some shelf liner (the no slip stuff today" ($5.00 at Home Depot) for large roll. the color is almost a exact match to the beige paint. I wrapped each contact point of the sling and used my high temp hot glue to affix it to itself.. this stuff works, cant slide that tube once the tension knows are turned in.. you could try a strip of this on the perch where the tube contacts it, bet it will stick like glue..

#27 mooNSpy250

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 11:12 PM

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#28 planet earth

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:50 AM

The paint for general Edmund early grey fine wrinkle finish. This a cover to go over the original wrinkle, it is NOT a wrinkle paint in itself.

Thank you, I'll give it a try.
Great job on the mount and bushing tips.
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#29 ScottAstroNut

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:03 AM

I, too, have found that felt pads on the cradle will slip over time, as the adhesive on the felt is not that strong. I suspect that the same might be true of craft foam, as it seems to use a similar adhesive. A material I have used with some success is industrial strength Velcro. The adhesive on the higher quality Velcro (using just the soft strip, of course, not the harder barbed plastic strip) is very strong and I've not had a problem with slippage of the Velcro pads. I find that the Velcro holds the tube a bit better than the felt, in terms of overall slippage of the OTA in the cradle, yet still allows the tube to be rotated relatively easily. It also provides a bit better padding than the felt, conforming better to the shape of the tube.

Another point of interest regarding the straps: I notice that the replacement straps you use on your red tube scope use spring clips to hold the straps. Have you found that these slip over time? I have found that the metal crimp clamps (as used on the gray straps of the older Edmund scopes to hold the threaded eye hook) hold very securely and are more "attractive." (Perhaps "less ugly" is a more accurate description!)

I also hear you about the paint fading in very erratic ways on the grey pedestal mounts. Some fade to a very dark grey, yet a Palomar Jr. I recently acquired had a very light grey color, as I remember the Palomar Jr. telescope I received as a kid in 1975 to have been. Thanks for the tip about the best paint color match. I'll have to give it a try on my next restoration.

#30 planet earth

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:24 AM

I bought the Palamor Jr new in 1975 also, but the gray was much darker then the 6 inch eq I picked up recently?
The 6 inch eq. with the lighter gray paint kinda threw me off. It doesn't look like anyone has repainted it.
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#31 amicus sidera

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:54 AM

Bob:

That's a terrific idea, using shelf liner! I'm going get a piece to try out on the GE mount, and maybe the fork cradle if I feel ambitious... :grin: I'll try affixing it with E-6000, which is my go-to adhesive.

Scott:

Your absolutely right about the adhesive on the craft foam; it does have a tendency to slip, especially when it gets warm. I know of the Velcro of which you speak; I've gotten similar in boat shops, where it's called "marine grade"; it seems basically identical to the industrial stuff. Will experiment with your idea, as well!

Sam:

Haven't seen you posting on the Classics forum recently, or if you have I've missed it; in any event, glad to see you! :cool:

#32 apfever

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:06 AM

Scott,

The spring clips on the red tube are original plastic ones that came with the tube. The black strap material is new but the exact same product as the original. I've never had the straps slip in the clips.

There has been another mention of using the fuzzy side velcro in place of felt. The same properties were mentioned about the adhesive, durability, conformability, and grip to the OTA while still allowing rotation. I'm going to give this a try for starting out 'Original' but a good ring system later will have all the strap set up go into the original archives bag.

Today will break 50 degrees F before plunging back below freezing and staying there for days. I'll be painting the greys today. In spite of any direction claims, paint will cure for several days. It will be later next week before I unrack and assemble the parts.

#33 amicus sidera

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 11:19 AM

You're absolutely right, Neil; paint always takes a few days (at least) to cure properly. Hope you get a chance to spray them today. Also, I've used those white plastic clips with the straps on a red-tube 4-1/4" f/10 and never had any slippage, either.

#34 apfever

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:01 PM

Back to the greys. Since the mount parts will need paint and cure time, I'll get some OTA work done. This is not a staged uglied up photo. It's real, right out of the scopes butt. The lint is pile up on one like pillow stuffing.

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#35 apfever

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:14 PM

It is possible that Edmund changed the paint during production, I don't know. I do know that the fading can take very extreme changes. I've seen vast differences on the same part where the legs have protected the underlying finish on the pipe.

Here's the first coat of Satin Granite 2X yesterday, before the cold snap. I hit every major part I could find including the Palomar Jrs and even a basket case extra that I will offer up for shipping cost after I get done, but I didn't say that. This covered so well that a general second coat won't be needed. I'll only have a few touch up spots after another day of cure. Many parts remained so close to this paint in color that coverage was indiscernible.

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#36 apfever

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:25 PM

They GLUED the primary. Yeah, I tried soaking to no effect. It took fishing a string line behind the mirror and cutting it off. Everything will get razor cleaned. The collimation bolts will get removed and re-nested with red Locktite. They will remain removable, with some effort, if needed. I'll place support pads at locations on the cell according to PLOP.

The felt banding for lateral support is in great shape, probably due to the GLUED primary not being able to compress or even contact it to any degree. There is a bit of side clearance and I'll shim a cork strip on top of the felt for a slip fit.

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#37 apfever

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 02:38 PM

Lots here.

I've never liked the loose springs on collimation bolts. They inevitably slip off to one side, look awkward, and don't help with lateral stability. I found these black bolt caps that are made with an attached cover that snaps over the head of a bolt for finish looks. I've used these many times before. The base is a perfect fit for the springs. The hole is a good fit for the collimation bolts. These hold the springs straight and centered without binding during collimation. They look great by themselves and keep everything looking sharp when you stare up the butt end. Now, I haven't gone beating the tar out of the cells for a quantitative measure, but I think you can bet that keeping all the springs square and centered will help with lateral support. The caps increase tension just a hair and won't limit spring compression even if you bottom out the springs. I also add a thin washer to the collimation nuts so they don't grind on the back plate and I've noted smoother results.

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#38 ScottAstroNut

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 01:53 PM

Looking good, Neil. I'll have to try that shade of grey paint, as it looks great!

Very good ideas regarding the collimation springs as well. I've always been annoyed by how they slide off to the side, making exact collimation more difficult. More things to try! :cool:

#39 apfever

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:58 PM

Yes, same ol same old picture, but with a Serious twist this time.

Continued guiding from friend's intervention concerning the HORDE has been an eye opener. I think my two brain cells are breeding and it's kind of like daylight after years in the shadows. At any rate, while waiting for paint to dry, this pathetic situation that I have illegitimately refered to as a 'shop' became something I just couldn't stand anymore. Can't even walk through it. Aside from a little depression, this disaster of a room is a good part of hinderance to my getting things done.

On with the twist, next picture.

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#40 apfever

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:00 PM

Ahhhh, that's better.

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#41 apfever

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:15 PM

The recent cold snap had me waiting for 3 to 4 days for the first coat of paint to harden. Then a few more days after the final touch up. Everything is ready to go from ground up now. I even put heat in the basement for pleasant atmosphere, adding music too. I'm very careful about skipping around on projects (serious problem), but this will wait as I reassemble the mounts. I've always favored ground up since it just seems easier to have that order to build on, keeping things out of the way as I go.


Cleaning the 'shop', I found things that blew my mind. Stuff I forgot about, some stuff I didn't even remember. This has just about everything Edmund Grey on the tables now. I'll get these aside and get the mounts up to ready for the OTAs. The mirrors and cells have been clean, assembled, and done, waiting. The focusers will have to be completely exploded, user parts separated, and left overs offered up for....helping others. This table does not include the Palomar JR mount parts but does have OTA parts.


Off the computer and on to the basement. I think I'll put on "LAZY" by Deep Purple, defiance!

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#42 khendrix2

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 11:14 PM

Wow, Neil. What an amazing transformation! Having seen it in person, I can definitely appreciate how much work it took to organize that "horde". Great job!

#43 apfever

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:55 AM

About time I get something done here. Had to make new rubber rings for the setting circles. These are flat, not regular O rings. Originals on the left, new ones on the right.

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#44 apfever

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:03 AM

The main ALT mounting bolt that goes through the pier cap and RA housing tang. The original (top) was barely long enough to go through the cap and tang and fill the half nut, without washers. I replaced it with the shoulder bolt which had a long enough shoulder for both cap and tang, and washers. This also gets a rather large wing nut instead of the hex nut. I cut the bolt to size and dressed up the end a little.

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#45 apfever

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:08 AM

Every single thumb screw for both weights on Both scopes was bent, badly rusted, or otherwise toast, most of them bent. The originals were also longer than they needed to be.
A local Ace Hardware carries these in many sizes and lengths in stainless. Every original one gets replaced.

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#46 apfever

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:18 AM

The side hole in the weights is smaller than the normal center hole. A pipe that fits the side hole is a bit sloppy on the second weight. A regular piece of plumbing pipe is a good size for a counterweight bar, but too tight for the side hole. This one already had pipe threads on the end that I pressed in. It will not be a field friendly removal. Eventually I'll turn down the end that goes into the side hole.

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#47 apfever

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:30 AM

One side.
The wing nut is huge and gives plenty of clamping without the bolt spinning. I added a nylon washer between the stop collar and the DEC housing. The RA setting circle turns nicely and both pointers are solid to the shafts.

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#48 apfever

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:38 AM

Other side.

The set screw for the LAT tang was replaced with the SS thumb screw. This and the wing nut had no problems holding the mount with both weights and no OTA to counter balance.

The second mount needs pointers for the setting circles. These original plastic ones are 1/8" thick, actually .130" thick. I'm going to cut a set of pointers from aluminum stock or SS. I'll make 4 of them and have a metal backup set for this mount.
Nope, I didn't turn anything for the picture. The pointers and setting circles are all complete and A1. I also have a nice full RA circle for the second mount but only parts for the DEC.

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#49 ScottAstroNut

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:16 AM

Looking GREAT so far, Neil! Can't wait to see the competed scope and hear how it works.

Was just wondering about the flat rubber O-rings. Exactly what tool did you use to make them? Isn't the flexible rubber a bit difficult to work with on a drill press? I ended up using round O-rings because I couldn't come up with a way of making nice looking flat ones.

#50 apfever

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:42 AM

Scott,

Go back to the picture of the O rings on the press. The tool is called a circle cutter. This was a cheap Harobor Freight I picked up some time ago. You can see how I clamped the rubber strip between two pieces of masonite. The clamp is loose in the picture, but it has a good reach and I clamped it close to the work so the rubber is held well between the masonite. I set the circle cutter blades so that one cut the inside and one cut the outside in a single pass. The blades are straight on one edge but curved on the other. I turned the blades so a straight edge was cutting each edge of the washer. The outside edge ended up cutting through first so I removed the piece and finished the little bit remaining on the inside with a razor knive. I cut very slow on slow speed, going in and out of the cut, getting very good results. The circle cutter has proved to be a very nice unit. I also use it to cut milk jug washers and a variety of other materials. Some of the intact original flat washers were checked with age. I put them in the original parts bag and replaced them all with new ones. Things got busy here and I have not made the new pointers yet.


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