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12" D&G

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#126 ednoffsinger

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 08:12 PM

Thank you all for your interest in my telescope. My son pointed me to this forum, so I thought I'd come by and say hello and thank you. I've read many of your thoughts and may be able to discuss some of them at a later time, although I don't know when exactly. My wife and I are busy remodeling the house, property, and observatory before putting everything up for sale this fall -- something we must do out of necessity for health and other reasons. I also passed along this forum to Ed Byers, so when I can I'll share his thoughts with you. Thank you again for your interest and I look forward to contributing again at some point in the future.

 

With warm regards,

 

Ed



#127 TCW

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 11:55 PM

I am sorry you have to sell your baby but I hope it finds a good home.



#128 starman876

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 06:51 AM

I wish you lived closer so I could come over and look through it. Looks like a beautiful instrument.


Edited by starman876, 19 August 2014 - 06:52 AM.


#129 Da Bear

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 12:51 PM

TWC, your absolutely correct.....custom machine work runs 5x to 9x ROTM production.  A seller of custom work should not  expect to receive the value inherent in the item. The value comes the original purchaser's enjoyment and use, not it's sale.  Hence the term disposable income. 

 

Terra, your right too.  This belongs in an institution that can afford its proper maintenance and housing, and uses this scope/ mount's exceprtional capabilities for research in a meaningful way on a continuous basis.

 

Da Bear


Edited by Da Bear, 20 August 2014 - 12:31 AM.


#130 roscoe

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 06:43 PM

I used to build custom homes, then I restored historical buildings for a decade, and now I build custom furniture pieces.  There is a constant situation I call the IKEA Syndrome, where I constantly find customers wanting to know if I can build things cheaper than they can get them at Ikea, and giving me 'the look' when I tell them that materials alone might cost twice what an Ikea bookcase costs, then I have to build and varnish the piece. ..... All through my career, people have had the strange idea that a guy building to their design HAS to be cheaper than mass-produced, no matter if it's a house or a table....or a scope part.  This gentleman is quite likely selling his equipment for the price of the materials he'd need to build another one, and giving the labor he paid for away for free.



#131 ednoffsinger

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 10:49 PM

Okay, so Ed Byers emailed me back his thoughts, which went ahead I pasted here. Thanks again for your interest in the telescope. 

 

Hello Ed:

    

Thanks for sending me all of the comments previously posted on Cloudy Nights and bringing them to my attention. They were quite thoughtful and interesting. I particularly enjoyed reading the one lady’s comments, which I felt were pretty much spot on.

 

I feel that your custom made 12" refractor, companion telescopes, and unique Byers Series III mounting provide not only an exceptional research grade telescope, but also a beautiful artistic masterpiece.  It is like the "Mona Lisa" of telescopes -- one that is reminiscent in its looks of the old Unitron telescopes that we used to love to look at and dream about owning back when we were so much younger.

    

I'm certain that someone with money, who appreciates both a work of art and the functionality of a unique research telescope specialized for solar observing, will purchase it at the price at which it's listed.  It's an ideal instrument for both daytime solar observing and for nighttime observing where there is suboptimal seeing conditions due to some unavoidable light pollution.  As you know, this is a vexing problem faced by many amateur astronomers desiring to have the convenience of a telescope in their own back yard. 

    

As for the Byers Series III mounting and customized D&G lens and tube assembly, I can attest to the fact that they possess numerous remarkable qualities -- from the uniqueness of having both digital and precisely machined massive analog setting circles, to the remarkable stainless steel steering wheel that serves as a "grab bar" for the observer to effortlessly maneuver the large telescope through the sky. 

 

For those who were surprised that it took a week of precision machining to make the stainless ring, I should explain that it is not the yacht steering wheel itself that took a week of machine shop time, but rather it was the incorporation of this ring into the massive steel counter-weight at the base of the tube assembly, along with the time to design the aluminum housing that contains the ring, that took a week.  This is but one of the utilitarian and highly functional features of this telescope that sets it apart from all others, and is a reflection of the exceptional amount of time, care, and precision required to build it.

    

Of course, it is easy for many to consider the price of this instrument quite dear.  However, for those who say that one could buy a telescope just as big or bigger for less, I would only add that this is like saying you can buy a car far cheaper than a Rolls Royce.  I am sure that many of the people who say this--whether they would admit it or not--would still love to have the Rolls.  I know there will be a discriminating buyer out there who wants the very best and will gladly purchase it for your asking price -- sooner or later.

   

Sincerely yours,

Ed Byers

 



#132 fjs

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 12:58 AM

Thanks for Posting Mr. Byers' comments. Seem to clarify a number of points.

 

Worth the money, or not. It is still an impressive telescope which I'm sorry you are in the position of selling.

 

I surely do hope you find a buyer deserving of this class of instrument.



#133 TCW

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 03:51 PM

I used to build custom homes, then I restored historical buildings for a decade, and now I build custom furniture pieces.  There is a constant situation I call the IKEA Syndrome, where I constantly find customers wanting to know if I can build things cheaper than they can get them at Ikea, and giving me 'the look' when I tell them that materials alone might cost twice what an Ikea bookcase costs, then I have to build and varnish the piece. ..... All through my career, people have had the strange idea that a guy building to their design HAS to be cheaper than mass-produced, no matter if it's a house or a table....or a scope part.  This gentleman is quite likely selling his equipment for the price of the materials he'd need to build another one, and giving the labor he paid for away for free.

I got out of residential work because there were too many guys running around giving bids for less than material costs, way less. It was a waste of time to even bid. People want cheap, not good at least until the cheap stuff falls apart.



#134 starman876

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:38 AM

all these words hold so true.  You can always build it cheaper, but can you build to the same specifications.   Kind of like using a AstroPhysics mount and a Celestron CGE.  They both do the same thing, but you can tell the difference in the craftmanship between the two mounts in a heartbeat.  Same hold true for telescopes.  The difference between a mass produced scope and one made by TMB or Celestron is also like day and night.   Some understand the wonderful craftmanship that goes into  building these beautiful scopes and some do not.  You actually need to have used these wonderful products to appreciate the craftmanship. 



#135 bremms

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:00 PM

The Alvan Clark design has nearly the same CA as any Fraunhoffer, Baker, Steinheil or Littrow. There is VERY little between them in correction. A 12" F15 has a lot of color. Just does. Has more than my 6" F10. The images are still superb.



#136 Terra Nova

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:03 PM

As far as CA, true, though with the 6" F10, at least it is within filterable levels. ( 15/12 = 1.25 and 10/6 = 1.67 )

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Edited by terraclarke, 26 August 2014 - 01:04 PM.


#137 starman876

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:39 PM

good thing we have APO lenses or everyone wiht a 6" lens would be using tripods and mounts 8 feet tall. 



#138 Terra Nova

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:57 PM

A 6" F18 refractor would be quite nice and wouldn't require to tall as ladder; but the mount would be a monster! That's why I am making a 6" F12 Newt. Better color correction, more manageable, and only requiring a low stepladder. I hope to have it finished before winter.



#139 Stephen Kennedy

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:47 PM

A 6" F18 refractor would be quite nice and wouldn't require to tall as ladder; but the mount would be a monster! That's why I am making a 6" F12 Newt. Better color correction, more manageable, and only requiring a low stepladder. I hope to have it finished before winter.

All you have to do is polish the 6 inch mirror to a sphere and forget about trying to parabolize it.  One, it would be very hard to do since the shadows would be so faint on your Foucalt tester and two, at F/12 there will be noticible shperical abberation, it is not needed,  You do want to make sure you have no TDE, surface roughness or zones.




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