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Sony A7s - New Low-Light Camera - Wow!

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#76 jdbastro

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:02 PM

... custom astro software...


What are you looking for? A lot already exists... Everything that works for the A7/A7R should work for the A7S.

bwa


Can you tell us what astro software works already with the Sony A7/A7R which also allows long exposures in Bulb mode?


This isn't software, but it's hardware that will control Bulb mode on an A7:

1) Pixel Remote

2) corresponding cable (look for the 'S2' cable in 'Compatible' tab).

I just ordered these from Amazon for my A7.

#77 Moromete

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:18 PM

... custom astro software...


What are you looking for? A lot already exists... Everything that works for the A7/A7R should work for the A7S.

bwa


Can you tell us what astro software works already with the Sony A7/A7R which also allows long exposures in Bulb mode?


This isn't software, but it's hardware that will control Bulb mode on an A7:

1) Pixel Remote

2) corresponding cable (look for the 'S2' cable in 'Compatible' tab).

I just ordered these from Amazon for my A7.


Thanks for letting me know about this. I didn't know Pixel remote has a cable already working with A7.

I hope you'll exchange your A7 with the new A7S and let us know how much better is the A7S for astrophotography since your are already experienced with the A7 line. :cool:

#78 Moromete

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:27 PM

What I am waiting to see is if this new Sony A7S will need to remove the stock filter and use just a UV/IR filter for detecting Ha emission nebulas or is the ISO good enough on really high amounts to pull this nebula through the stock filter. If it needs to be modified then I cannot see many doing this to a full frame expensive camera.

Chris A
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I suppose the A7S will detect Ha emissions with the stock filter quite well.

If know how the Nikon D3S performs for astrophography and long exposures than you can expect the A7S to be a little bit better.

I expect(hope) the noise of A7s at ISO12800 to be similar to ISO3200 on Canon 6D in RAW. If this will happen I expect many dedicated color astro CCDs will encounter problems with sales.

Anyway here is the DXOMark test of the Sony A7S http://www.dxomark.c...low-light-champ .

#79 Chris A

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:27 PM

So are we talking in terms of CCD imaging with this camera or as an electronic device for observing DSO's? Thank you!

Chris

#80 Dom543

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 04:25 PM

Is there any way to do binning with the A7 (or A7S) cameras?

Binning helps with image scale when using scopes other than small refractors.

--Dom

#81 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:26 PM

Can you tell us what astro software works already with the Sony A7/A7R which also allows long exposures in Bulb mode?


The astro software packages I use are PixInsight, ImagesPlus, AviStack, RegiStax, PhotoMatix, AutoPano Giga, Lightroom and Photoshop(w/ a number of 3rd party Actions). These don't capture images, they just process them.

At the moment I'm using the Time-Lapse app on the A7R for capture; however, this does limit me to 30sec exposures which has been adequate for most targets I've gone after to this point, per:

https://plus.google....937805993991329

I do note Pixel Remote now has both wired and wireless remote timers compatible with the A7 series.

Hope this helps.

bwa

#82 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:28 PM

This isn't software, but it's hardware that will control Bulb mode on an A7:

1) Pixel Remote

2) corresponding cable (look for the 'S2' cable in 'Compatible' tab).

I just ordered these from Amazon for my A7.


Thanks for this link. I've been waiting for a wired remote for the A7 series.

bwa

#83 Relativist

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:33 PM

Is the deepsky stacker live viewing tool possible as well?

#84 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:34 PM

What I am waiting to see is if this new Sony A7S will need to remove the stock filter and use just a UV/IR filter for detecting Ha emission nebulas or is the ISO good enough on really high amounts to pull this nebula through the stock filter. If it needs to be modified then I cannot see many doing this to a full frame expensive camera.

Chris A
Astrogate


I converted my A7R to full spectrum about a month after acquiring it and plan to do the same with the A7S when I receive it.

All unmodded cameras will capture Ha and IR, it just takes LONG exposures and if you don't use an Ha filter will probably blow out everything else prior to capturing much of the Ha spectrum. The A7S might be a bit better with its higher ISO and, hopefully, lower noise BUT I wouldn't put much money on it...

bwa

#85 will w

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:35 PM

Hi, is this camera a CCD or video camera ?? will w

#86 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:39 PM

Is the deepsky stacker live viewing tool possible as well?


I've never used it. Not too sure how it works? I think it works off a directory of captured images so that might be a problem?

bwa

#87 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:41 PM

Hi, is this camera a CCD or video camera ?? will w


The Sony A7S is a mirrorless CMOS chipped camera. Like most recent DSLR's it captures stills and video.

bwa

#88 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:46 PM

Is there any way to do binning with the A7 (or A7S) cameras?

Binning helps with image scale when using scopes other than small refractors.

--Dom


Sadly, I know the A7 and A7R don't have binning capability and suspect the A7S is the same. At the moment the only chip manufacturer that allows binning in color is Kodak. All others would be in B&W.

ImagesPlus does have a pseudo "binning" in postprocessing for what that is worth.

bwa

#89 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 06:13 PM

So are we talking in terms of CCD imaging with this camera or as an electronic device for observing DSO's? Thank you!

Chris


I'm planning on initially using the A7S for astrophotography and nightscape photography, i.e.: imaging. Even with 30 sec exposures the A7R is more than capable of this; the A7S should be great!

I do plan to try astro-video with the camera. It has the potential to capture brighter stellar objects but not too sure about DSO's (deep sky objects)? The A7R with a fast lens (f/2.0) is the first DSLR I've owned that would capture reasonable real time video of the Aurora Borealis. If the A7S lives up to the marketing hype, it might just work in this capacity? If nothing else, capturing a few minutes of 30 fps 4K video might give me a few thousand frames of pretty reasonable images to align and stack. 7200 frames (2 minutes) would yield a signal-to-noise ratio improvement of 85x over that of a single frame; might just work??

I suspect real time astro-video with the A7S will require a good fast lens which due to the price of long fast lenses will probably limit me to, at most, wide-field astro-video... However, if you consider "real time" astro-video as being a sequence of frames/images displayed at 5-7 second intervals (i.e.: Mallincam style), I suspect the A7S will perform very well! The A7R is almost at this level of performance with 30 sec exposures.

bwa

#90 Chris A

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:50 PM

Yes BWA, I know very well that an unmodified DSLR will capture Ha & IR at very long exposures and this is why I ask if the higher ISO would reduce the exposures to reasonable time frames while using this camera as an electronic viewing device. From your answer you say that you do not think the new Sony A7S will have enough sensitivity from Ha and IR objects without the modifying and that was the answer I was looking for so thank you.

#91 Chris A

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

Okay bwa that sounds great and looking forward to your report on your new A7S. Thank you for the information, I appreciated it.

Cheers,

Chris A

#92 bwallan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 10:06 PM

...
From your answer you say that you do not think the new Sony A7S will have enough sensitivity from Ha and IR objects without the modifying and that was the answer I was looking for so thank you.


I'm sure the A7S will have sensitivity for Ha and IR; however, the visible portion of the spectrum will simply overpower this portion of the spectrum unless you use an Ha or IR Pass filter, then you're going to be looking at long exposures... At the present I'm not too sure how long but I'll be doing a full spectrum mod.

bwa

#93 Moromete

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:20 AM

So are we talking in terms of CCD imaging with this camera or as an electronic device for observing DSO's? Thank you!

Chris


You can do both with A7S due to its high ISOs and 8.4um pixels.

At this very moment probably there is no other more light sensitive DSLR for astro work(video or astrophotography) than this A7S. You don't even need binning such a light sensitive sensor and its 8.4um pixels.

A simple calculation shows that the A7S at ISO12800 is 30x more light sensitive than a Canon T2i(550D) at ISO1600 with its 4.2um pixels.

You are welcome!

#94 Moromete

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:44 AM

Oh, talking about video astronomy I forgot to mention the A7S allows in video mode a 1/4 shutter speed and considering ISO51.200 is quite clean with A7S in video mode(see Youtube) and at such high ISO it's 120x more sensitive than a Canon T2i at ISO1600 => the A7S will show you at 1/4 shutter speed almost the same DSO details like T2i does in 30s!

And if you attach a fast photo lens or Hyperstar to the A7S, isn't this the best real time video astronomy device now considering even that its video mode it's clean because not doing pixel binning like other DSLRs?

Just some food for thought.

#95 Chris A

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:45 PM

Well this sounds all great on paper and we shall see the results hopefully in the next couple of months from the new owners of this fabulous DSLR.

Chris

#96 bwallan

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:15 PM

Well this sounds all great on paper and we shall see the results hopefully in the next couple of months from the new owners of this fabulous DSLR.

Chris


I would agree, "sound all great on paper"...

The Sony A7R has made me somewhat of a believer in Sony technology, i.e.: the A7R gives me about the same image quality at ISO6400 as my Canon 60D does at ISO1600. If the A7S bumps this by another factor of four, i.e.: ISO25600, I'll be happy. If I get reasonable image quality at ISO51200 or higher, I'll be overjoyed! If I can capture usable video of the night sky for alignment and stacking (maybe real time viewing?), I'll be suitably amazed...

Another two weeks and I should have my hands on one!

bwa

#97 bwallan

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:20 PM

You can install CCDcalc to compare FOV of various camera chips. Great program.


Yes, a great little freebie package. Be sure to download / install the image package(s).

Also, of importance for imagers is the arcsec/pixel value, particularly if you're dealing with sky conditions, i.e.: astrophotography and such.

bwa

#98 Chris A

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 04:00 PM

Sounds great bwa and you must be very excited. Looking forward to your 1st light! All the best.

Clear skies,

Chris A

#99 JMKarian

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:14 PM

DxO Labs review of the A7S sensor claims and a comparison to the A7R's Sony Sensor Value Claims - A7S

#100 ccs_hello

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:11 PM

Re DXOmark scores

The best way to read the real message is to see the "Measurement" data (click the measurement tab)
http://www.dxomark.c...us-Sony-A7R_...

For low light, big pixel wins.

I wish the price will come down eventually so I can buy one of the A7s for fun.

Naturally, a very fast optical system with large image circle covering the entire sensor area will be very expensive.


Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


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