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Pink Panther / Cave restoration

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#1 turk123

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:47 PM

I thought I would start a new thread with the restoration of the telescope I just picked up from Steve Gorton. Due to the color of the OTA, it will be called the "Pink Panther Cave".   Steve has had the scope for a while and was not interested in restoring it so he offered it to me at a very nice price.  Thanks Steve!

 

Pink is an F/7 72" 10" Cave from the seventies.  It does not have a DEC drive but does have slow motion controls for that axis.  The Drive box on the RA axis looks very nice and I will hook a new power cord to it to test the motor soon. Gears are very clean.  Should be OK I think.

 

The tube is the interesting part.  It's, well, Pink!    I've never run across a colored tube on a Cave unless painted by an owner at a later time.  This OTA is definitely original pink.  It has faded a lot, but the original color still show under the different item attached on the tube after I removed them.  My new painter is matching the color as we speak.  It's similar to the old T-Bird pink or Ford coral pink.  It kind of grows on you.

 

The mount has a lot of rust on the steel shafts.  They are soaking now.  I have a feeling they will need a pounding to get them out of the bearings.  We will see.

 

Parks has responded to an email I send about the pink tube.  They had me send a picture to see if they could identify it as there's.  I'm guessing "Who else's would it be?"  DavidG responded in another thread that Parks and Cave would take special request for colors.  This would be the first I've ever heard of.

 

Steve said he would talk to the guy he bought it from.

 

 "I got Pinkie from a guy in Madison, who said he had been storing it in his

basement for 30 years for his brother-in-law. He knew nothing about it, but
I have emailed him today for the story and background about it. Will let you
know if I hear something."

 

So I will await for that information.  You can chime in here if you find anything Steve.

 

So off we go on another restoration that will be a little unconventional in color.  If you have any other suggestions of how to paint the mount, let me know.  This will not be an original Cave color scheme.  I want to do something very different.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cave Pink (16 of 27).jpg
  • Cave Pink (130 of 1).jpg

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#2 turk123

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:51 PM

Here are some images of the mount.  A bit rusty on the shafts, but otherwise OK overall.   Nice setting circles.  And my first cave with a pointer!

 

The parts are getting a soaking in the garage before I start to beat on them!   :smash:

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cave Pink restore (3 of 10).jpg
  • Cave Pink restore (4 of 10).jpg
  • Cave Pink restore (5 of 10).jpg

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#3 turk123

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:52 PM

DEC drive is completely frozen.   Gotta use the stinky PB Blaster on it.  Wheeewwww.

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  • Cave Pink restore (6 of 10).jpg

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#4 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:55 PM

Parks had to mold the tube in the pink color from the get go.  I sure wish i could find all of these Caves close to my area.

 

Chas



#5 turk123

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:58 PM

I literally pulled the rings out of the OTA by wedging a screwdriver behind them.  The rivets where flush with the inside of the tube and sanding them was impossible.  I tried drilling them but it is too awkward to get into the tube with a drill.  They pulled out quite easily.  I at first thought the little "nub" that goes into the tube was part of the ring, but after pounding on it a bit, it popped out the front for me to take a picture.  The end of the "nub" will have to be sanded off to get them through the ring.  I probably will replace with a round headed screw.  Not original, but nothing on this scope is gonna meet with approval from the "Cave historical society here!  Not a chance.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cave Pink restore (7 of 10).jpg
  • Cave Pink restore (8 of 10).jpg
  • Cave Pink restore (9 of 10).jpg

Edited by turk123, 01 October 2014 - 06:04 PM.


#6 turk123

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 06:01 PM

The rotating rings where the reason I bought the scope.  I was gonna use the parts.  Not anymore.  This is going to be a full restore.  The rings are in good shape.  Here are the outer rings with the three steel shafts connecting them.  I'm guessing bright white for these parts.

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  • Cave Pink restore (10 of 10).jpg

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#7 turk123

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 06:09 PM

DavidG said:

 

Tom,
Just be careful when it comes to putting the rings back on the tube. On the 10" I did they were a real tight fit. They locked up on me a couple of times with the slightest tilting of the ring and were a pain to get the screw holes to line back up.
Those layers of new paint are going to increase the diameter of tube, so be careful as to not scratch up your new paint job trying to get the rings in place. You might need to have it painted with the rings in place.

- Dave

 

TOM:

 

That is why I had a talk with the painter.  He feels by not going with 3-4 clear coats, the buildup will not be much.  I took the rings with me to show him the fit.  He thinks it will be fine.  He also recommended powder when I go to put the back on and because it is not clear coat, it can be wet sanded to take out any scratches.  He said he would do this for me after the rings are on.  The tube will have to cure about 30 days before attempting.


Edited by turk123, 01 October 2014 - 06:09 PM.


#8 terraclarke

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:16 PM

Boy you weren't kiddin'. It really is PINK!



#9 Datapanic

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:58 PM

The mount looks like the old style, with the RA circle on the upper end, the spacing rods on the rings offset as opposed to the newer style with the top one being 180 degrees from the studs, the spacer rods are threaded on the ends and fastened to the rings with acorn nuts instead of bolts going into the rods and the holes for it on the inner rings being recessed, the channels for the inner rotating rings are square instead of rounded, the pier has the keyhole slots for the legs instead of just holes.  There's more indicators, such as the Tangent Arm is part of the cradle while the newer design was bolted on.

 

Is there a bolt going through the Dec Shaft Housing to attach it to the RA shaft or are there just set screws?

Is there a bolt going through the Cradle to attach it to the Dec Shaft or are there just set screws?

Is the pier column aluminum? 

 

I'm not certain at all when Cave changed their mount design, but to me, that's definitely the old style. 


Edited by Datapanic, 01 October 2014 - 11:59 PM.


#10 turk123

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 05:46 AM

The mount looks like the old style, with the RA circle on the upper end, the spacing rods on the rings offset as opposed to the newer style with the top one being 180 degrees from the studs, the spacer rods are threaded on the ends and fastened to the rings with acorn nuts instead of bolts going into the rods and the holes for it on the inner rings being recessed, the channels for the inner rotating rings are square instead of rounded, the pier has the keyhole slots for the legs instead of just holes.  There's more indicators, such as the Tangent Arm is part of the cradle while the newer design was bolted on.

 

Is there a bolt going through the Dec Shaft Housing to attach it to the RA shaft or are there just set screws?

Is there a bolt going through the Cradle to attach it to the Dec Shaft or are there just set screws?

Is the pier column aluminum? 

 

I'm not certain at all when Cave changed their mount design, but to me, that's definitely the old style. 

 

 

The mount is definitely the old style.   Most of the telescopes in the 70's got the "new style" mount. But not all.  I think that is when the transition was made but some of the observator old style larger mounts carried over, maybe because of old stock. 

 

Aluminum pier, no bolt fastening Dec to RA and no bolt in cradle.  The castings seem a bit beefier also.   Also, the RA shaft does not pass through the motor housing.   Brass setting circles.   Definitely all old style.



#11 Chuck Hards

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 06:49 AM

Boy you weren't kiddin'. It really is PINK!

 

I'm thinking Tom could probably get corporate sponsorship for the restoration from Pepto-Bismol.  ;)


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#12 dgreyson

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:22 AM

I have solid rivets and a setting tool to peen out the end into another mushroom head that you could borrow.
but I think screws would be a lot more practical in the long run for maintaining the scope rings.
your rivets look like they just used a hammer to bulge the end out, which works too.

#13 turk123

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:41 AM

I have solid rivets and a setting tool to peen out the end into another mushroom head that you could borrow.
but I think screws would be a lot more practical in the long run for maintaining the scope rings.
your rivets look like they just used a hammer to bulge the end out, which works too.

 

I agree.  Bolts and nuts and probably a washer as the fiberglass material is a bit rough on the edges from age.

 

The rotating rings were held in by very small screws.  Cave cut out a small shape in the tube where I believe they may have imbedded a piece of metal for the screw to bite into.  The metal is no longer there but the cutouts are.  The tube is at the painters so I don't have a good shot of this.  Why would they do this?  I believe it stopped the fiberglass from grazing and layers lifting as the screw is put in.  Also, the tube is so long that you cannot reach in to put bolts and washers in that area.  I will probably epoxy a metal chip in there that is tapped for a bolt.

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  • Cave Pink restore ring cutout (200 of 1).jpg


#14 DAVIDG

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:29 AM

Tom,
I think your RA circle is on backwards since the divisons should be close to the pointer. Here is a picture of the mount I did for the school, with the RA cirle in the same position on the mount but the circle is flipped from yours. It would also move the circle closer to the pointer and you wouldn't need the piece of plexi-glass which looks not be original.

- Dave

[attachment=468796:FINISHEDDUPONTCAVEMOUNT.jpg

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  • FINISHEDDUPONTCAVEMOUNT.jpg

Edited by DAVIDG, 02 October 2014 - 08:31 AM.


#15 tim53

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:35 AM

The RA circle on my 12.5" transportable observatory is like that too. And the pointer doesn't extend across it. But if I turn it around, it reads backwards. My 8" lightweight deluxe has a dec circle but never had a pointer installed. The assemblers at cave weren't always concientious about their work! Tim

#16 madeline

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 09:03 AM

Nice Turk, be sure to post plenty of pics.



#17 youngamateur42

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 09:30 AM

Turk, one of the coolest caves ive yet seen. I know you'll do it proud!

#18 actionhac

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 09:49 AM

Does Pinkie's  drive motor have a date?



#19 turk123

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:01 AM

Does Pinkie's  drive motor have a date?

 

It should, but I'm at work and it's at home.

 

Hmmm . . if I flip the setting circle, unless I'm looking at it wrong, wouldn't it be counting backwards?



#20 turk123

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:03 AM

Tom,
I think your RA circle is on backwards since the divisons should be close to the pointer. Here is a picture of the mount I did for the school, with the RA cirle in the same position on the mount but the circle is flipped from yours. It would also move the circle closer to the pointer and you wouldn't need the piece of plexi-glass which looks not be original.

- Dave

[attachment=468796:FINISHEDDUPONTCAVEMOUNT.jpg

 

Is that an Acme thread on their?



#21 apfever

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:17 AM

Turk, The tube looks free of crazing. This is the only thing that has stopped me from doing my 10" Cave.

My understanding is that the tubes were made by layering the gel coat into the mold and then applying the fiber glass onto the gel coat. The two layers are distinct by looking into holes that are drilled in the tube. The gel coat is fairly thick, not a micro layer like paint. Crazing in the gel coat is common. Mine is bad. Nothing has pealed off but the heavier crazing produces a 'ridge' that can be felt.  This has come up before but I've yet to see a definitive procedure for fixing the problem. I doubt painting over a bad case will work, even after smooth sanding and surface prep. Any leads?

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  • DSCN0341.JPG


#22 DAVIDG

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:31 AM

Tom,
As for the RA setting circle it depends on which direction the numbers are increasing ie clockwise vs counter clockwise. I just took a look at a picture of the mount I did before I took it apart and I installed the circle in the same position as was it originally and the numbers are right side up in that position. I remember glancing over at another scope in the garage and comparing the RA circles and they were numbered in the same direction. Cave and I could have got wrong but it just seems unusual that the numbers on yours seem to be upside down and the plastic pointer seems not to be original.
It also seems a bit odd that the Dec slow motion is manual vs a motor. It does look to have been made that way but to be at the eyepiece of 10" f/7 scope and somehow reach down to get your hands on the Dec knob while still looking thru the eyepiece might be a challenge. Are there any holes drilled in the side of the blocks that hold the bearing for the Dec threaded rod ? If so they should be to mount a motor.

- Dave

#23 orion61

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 12:39 PM

That thing is going to be a real Planet Killer when you are done. Globular Clusters an Planetary nebula should be a real treat. The extra contrast

will be mind numbing. Have you any idea of the mirror quality? Some of those later Caves were average.

Where are you sending for coatings?

When I did my RV6 in enhanced coatings, my Planetary images dropped off a bit. Deep Space were better tho??

I had heard that before, but thought it to be B.S. Could it be in the color shift? I know images seem shifted  from what they were.

Anybody heard of this or have an explanation? Dave???


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#24 torana68

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 06:57 PM

really like this in pink, would it have been a "show special"? or special order?

 

Turk, The tube looks free of crazing. This is the only thing that has stopped me from doing my 10" Cave.

 I doubt painting over a bad case will work, even after smooth sanding and surface prep. Any leads?

 

If you paint over crazing the cracks will come through. The only way to fix crazing is to sand off the gel coat and re apply, a good boat repair shop can do it or advise best way. (or perhaps a corvette restoration shop?)

Roger


Edited by torana68, 02 October 2014 - 06:58 PM.

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#25 turk123

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:21 PM

really like this in pink, would it have been a "show special"? or special order?

 

Turk, The tube looks free of crazing. This is the only thing that has stopped me from doing my 10" Cave.

 I doubt painting over a bad case will work, even after smooth sanding and surface prep. Any leads?

 

If you paint over crazing the cracks will come through. The only way to fix crazing is to sand off the gel coat and re apply, a good boat repair shop can do it or advise best way. (or perhaps a corvette restoration shop?)

Roger

 

You cannot repair crazing without sanding and applying either a faring sand-able coat or re-applying the gel coat.  Yes you can apply a coat of gel to the area sanded.  Years ago I owned a 25' Catalina sailboat and it developed a blister on the aft shell.  I called Catalina as it was under warranty, and was surprised to hear the owner of Catalina yachts on the other end of the line.  He sent me instructions on how to sand out the blister.  He also sent me a can of Gelcoat and told me to go to the marine store for hardener. You can apply the gelcoat and then cover with 'plastic wrap and smooth it out with a plastic wedge.  I followed his instructions and it came out just fine.  The alternative was to ship the boat to the nearest repair center a few hundred miles away and wait 6 months for them to repair it.

 

The problem with gelcoat is it has to be matched to the tube color and we all know that that will never happen.  I kinda like crazing!   At least your not going to sink.


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