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Pink Panther / Cave restoration

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#26 turk123

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:18 AM

That thing is going to be a real Planet Killer when you are done. Globular Clusters an Planetary nebula should be a real treat. The extra contrast

will be mind numbing. Have you any idea of the mirror quality? Some of those later Caves were average.

Where are you sending for coatings?

When I did my RV6 in enhanced coatings, my Planetary images dropped off a bit. Deep Space were better tho??

I had heard that before, but thought it to be B.S. Could it be in the color shift? I know images seem shifted  from what they were.

Anybody heard of this or have an explanation? Dave???

 

The mirrors I have are all going to Majestic.  I talked with Jeff Becker and he's going to take some pictures of the process for me.  I'll include them here.

 

I do not know the quality of the mirror.  It is too damaged to even try it in the scope.  The 1959 mirror is in similar condition and I did try it.  Like looking through smoked glass.  :bawling:   But it's getting a coating also.  I have a total of five mirrors going to Majestic.  



#27 tim53

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:38 AM

I bet that thing was stunning when new.  The mount parts look to have been painted with a bluish or greenish tinted hammertone paint.  IMHO, that would go far better with the restored pink finish than white (or any other non-original color).

 

But that is just my opinion.  I could be wrong.

 

-Tim.


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#28 clamchip

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:55 AM

The world's fair was here in Seattle in 1962 and lots of pink buildings and things are still around, pretty cool stuff.

Here is a Toe Truck. Its now in the museum of history and industry here in Seattle. It started life as a VW van.

Elvis performed at the fair and washed his pink caddy at the pink elephant


Edited by actionhac, 04 October 2014 - 12:48 PM.

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#29 PiSigma

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 12:19 PM

Tom,

 

Does all the flaking off paint look like it's original? This looks like it is from the early part of the equipment gray paint era. I'm guessing the black underneath might actually be primer?



#30 Adam S

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 09:46 AM

Great score Turk. It will be fun to watch the restoration on this unique Cave.  



#31 turk123

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 09:51 AM

Tom,

 

Does all the flaking off paint look like it's original? This looks like it is from the early part of the equipment gray paint era. I'm guessing the black underneath might actually be primer?

 

Yes it looks original.  The black appears to be primer.  It was used on all the pieces.   



#32 turk123

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 09:59 AM

I need to get the counter weights off to send to the machinist.  Ron is going to try to put a completely smooth finish on the steel.  We will see how it works.


Edited by turk123, 05 October 2014 - 12:30 PM.

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#33 terraclarke

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 10:00 AM

Wow! How about that. An original custom pink tube and perhaps a blue mount!? :love: It was obviously special-ordered by a woman. :lol:

 

:brick:

 


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#34 turk123

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:12 AM

So I've cleaned out the holes in the counter weights and kept trying allen wrenches till I found the right one.  Wow!  They used a very small one!

 

 

The counter weights are part of the shaft.  Dan or anyone.  What do I need to soak these in???   I can't even get the small protective ring off the end!

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cave pink (220 of 8).jpg
  • Cave pink (227 of 8).jpg


#35 turk123

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:14 AM

The gearbox looks fine.  I took the motor out and hooked it to AC.  It turns just fine.  Bristol motor and not date on it.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cave pink (226 of 8).jpg
  • Cave pink (223 of 8).jpg


#36 clamchip

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:21 AM

I don't know Cave's too well but the drive sure looks older than 1970.

Try a punch or a length of rod that will fit down inside the set screw hex  and tap the punch to try and shock a little clearance into the threads. I would also use a Allen wrench that doesn't have the ball end if you have one to get the most contact in the set screw hex.

 

Robert


Edited by actionhac, 04 October 2014 - 11:33 AM.


#37 turk123

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:26 AM

Evapo-rust and Liquid wrench may do the trick.  I'm off to the hardware store.



#38 tim53

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:37 AM

I was going to suggest Evaporust.  You may need to get a LOT of it, and make some sort of pan to hold the weights and shaft together over night.  I haven't tried soaking things still bolted together, though, so I don't know how well the stuff will penetrate between the components.

 

Another thing to try would be a LOT of heat to expand the weights off the shaft.  But you'd need a welding torch and some serious gloves to work with those weights, which won't be wanting to cool down anytime soon after being heated.

 

-Tim.



#39 tim53

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:42 AM

Interesting that the parts were primed.  I've never seen an original Cave or Optical Crafstmen with primer on it!  I wonder if this was part of the special order.

 

That instrument gray would also look good with the pink.  Gray goes with everything (which is why all the VW Eurovans I've seen have gray upholstery, except for the emerald green ones pre-2001 - which could be ordered with tan interiors).

 

(sorry for harping on original colors, but this scope seems too special to just "renovate" rather than truly restore).

 

Terra kids, but I would be curious to find out who ordered this scope.  From the article interview with Cave, it appears he had some interesting characters and famous people buy scopes from him.  Could this be one of those situations?  If a provenance can be established, it would be good to keep records with the scope for future generations to enjoy (and for US to drool over on your website!)

 

-Tim.


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#40 turk123

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:44 AM

I was going to suggest Evaporust.  You may need to get a LOT of it, and make some sort of pan to hold the weights and shaft together over night.  I haven't tried soaking things still bolted together, though, so I don't know how well the stuff will penetrate between the components.

 

Another thing to try would be a LOT of heat to expand the weights off the shaft.  But you'd need a welding torch and some serious gloves to work with those weights, which won't be wanting to cool down anytime soon after being heated.

 

-Tim.

 

I figure I could try the soaking in the evapo-rust for a few days.  Some say diesel fuel will also work.  I can also try the heat after that. (let's see, Diesel fuel and flames)     I do need to get the setscrews out.  Drilling those might get them out.  I have to see if my taps are long enough to put the threads back in.  


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#41 apfever

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 12:15 PM

I use red diesel (farm-offroad diesel) in my solvent tank. It works well for cleaning in that it does not strip the metal bare like more volatile solvents. It doesn't stink up the garage using only a simple metal sheet cover on the tank. There are better penetrating solvents for getting rusty parts loose.

 

Robert has the right idea with tapping the system to shock the parts a little. Many penetrating lubes will suggest this in the directions. However, if you really want to advance this idea, there's an easy extreme. USE A PRESS. You don't need to press the parts all the way off which may run a gouge in the shaft, but it would be easy enough to do so.  Just press a hair to pop things loose then press back the other way. This will do two things. One, it helps get the penetrating lube between the parts. Two, it forces lateral pressure on any side parts like set screws or woodruff keys or just parts together such as a stop ring against the weight. This can seriously help knock things out. It would be like getting to the end of the set screw and smacking it back and forth sideways.

 

There is a difference between blocking up the weights and using a press instead of beating the shaft with a hammer. Both have their advantages. The physical difference is a discussion of work/energy vs. impulse/momentum. There have been times when I've had my press fairly tweaked with pressure, when a light tap knocked everything loose and the sudden recoil shudder has sent parts flying. Short excitement in the slow boring life of a press.

 

Try a press Turk.


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#42 Datapanic

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 12:25 PM

I would soak the set screws in liquid wrench by filling the holes in the counterweight so the set screws are covered.  Give it some time, and if the set screws wont come out, I would start off by soaking the shaft, collars and weights in a bucket with evaporust.  Any oily stuff should be rinsed off before using evaprust.  Sit the bucket in the sunlight to warm it up.  This may take time, a week or longer.  So, just let it soak.  Getting the set screws loose and even all the out will make it a lot easier to penetrate the contact area by allowing fluid to get to where the problem is.  I would only try drilling the set screws out with left handed bits or use an easyout if all else fails.  It might make things worse drilling them out because of material getting jammed down there.   Actually, if it were really bad, I'd take the whole thing to my machine shop and have them take it apart.

 

During the soaking process, periodically take it out and bang on it with a rubber mallet or a hammer and block of wood.  Work on other parts of the scope!    Once the parts are loose, they still may be difficult to take off, so try to smooth the shaft on the ends before sliding the parts off...  If there is a lot of rust, the evaprust may need to be replenished. 


Edited by Datapanic, 04 October 2014 - 12:29 PM.

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#43 Jeff B1

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 01:47 PM

Is the motor a 1/15th RPM?



#44 DAVIDG

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 02:34 PM

 Tom,

   On Al's 10" Cave  the counter weights were rusted in place as well. A torch on the hole in the counter weight  and the Allen  screws were out in about 5 minutes.

 

                - Dave

 

mount.JPG


Edited by DAVIDG, 04 October 2014 - 02:41 PM.


#45 DAVIDG

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 02:38 PM

Is the motor a 1/15th RPM?

 

 The motor is 1 rpm and has a 10 tooth gear on it's shaft that drive 144 tooth gear to give a reduction of 14:1. That drives the main gear on the scope which has 100 teeth for a final reduction of 1440:1 so the scope  is tracking at Solar Rate.

 

                  - Dave


Edited by DAVIDG, 04 October 2014 - 02:43 PM.


#46 turk123

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 03:06 PM

 Tom,

   On Al's 10" Cave  the counter weights were rusted in place as well. A torch on the hole in the counter weight  and the Allen  screws were out in about 5 minutes.

 

                - Dave

 

attachicon.gifmount.JPG

 

I will give that a try.  But that will be tomorrow as I've had a long day.   I removed the motor box.  I almost have the RA Axis shaft out of the Dec (last minute it decided to stick).  That will allow me to put a soak on.   The rust is pretty thick.  Pier is all apart and I need to go buy some baggies before I start losing screws and parts.

 

The cork is out of a fine Cabernet and two lobster tails will soon be on the grill.   I need a shower bad.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cave pink (300 of 3).jpg
  • Cave pink (301 of 3).jpg

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#47 Geo31

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:02 PM

PB Blaster is usually readily available.  That's a superior product for freeing up rusted fasteners.

 

The one I've heard from many areas is the best is Aerokroil, but it's not generally readily available.

 

http://www.kanolabs.com/penLub.html



#48 sgorton99

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:43 PM

"Long day." Spotted Cow time?



#49 turk123

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:55 AM

"Long day." Spotted Cow time?

 

All the spotted cow is gone.  I actually like all the others also!  Great brewery!


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#50 turk123

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 03:20 PM

Removed the RA half and as much as I could.  The counter weights and shaft go into the evapo-rust.  I tried heating the setscrews in the weights with no avail.   Bugger just won't come out.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cave pink (330 of 11).jpg



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