Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

DIY Camera for EAA: Better Than LN300?

  • Please log in to reply
925 replies to this topic

#26 wcstarguy

wcstarguy

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 04 Dec 2008

Posted 20 January 2015 - 01:54 PM

Really looking forward to getting the camera. DIY is not much on this for me as I have the tools already. I bought the case too and it and cam have shipped already (separately). Thanks for your tests guys and down the road hope to compare this cam with my DSO-1 on my modest scope setups (4.5" starblast imaging on a skyprodigy mount and Orion XT8i with tracking platform). wc



#27 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 02:07 PM

Eric,

 

The supplied remote is plug and play.  The board cam also allows one to make their own 5-button remote (where soldering would be required) if they desire a longer wire.

 

They can follow CCS' instructions in this thread:

 

http://www.cloudynig...remote-control/

 

The joystick remote cable is perfectly functional though.

 

I won't speak on behalf of the company, but, I believe they would remove the filter if someone asked them before they shipped it.  Leaving the filter in place reduces sensitivity of the camera.  If anyone is wondering how much, the x128 (2 sec) picture (#3) above would be achieved at x256 (4 sec).

 

The small case people are ordering won't allow a c-mount nosepiece.  It can only be used with M12 lenses.  I believe they'll need one of these for EAA if you use the small case:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a98c9e620

 

I order my cases in bulk from this company and use this case for my board cam projects:

 

http://www.circuitsp...-box-pb-3p.html

 

I drill a 1 inch hole in the center of the front and back with a spade bit. 

 

http://drillsandcutt.../1x6-spade-bit/

 

I use the cs mount supplied in the kit and attach it (with the supplied screws) to the camera.  The gasket supplied is two sided (white and black).  The white side goes to the board (on top of the white marking on the board).  I use the top of the project box (as Paul did above).  I place the camera inside the top and attach it with one of these (from the front) of the 1 inch hole I drilled:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3f14e557d0

 

I then take a 1/16th inch drill bit and insert it in to the holes (4 corners) of the board cam, then drill the holes (one at a time.  I use the screw, washers and nuts to keep it in place as I drill each of the other holes).  I use four M12-20 screws to attach the board to the cover.  I insert the screw from the front of the cover and place a washer and then a nut.  I then place a nut and washer.  Then the board cam.  Then a washer and nut.  The two nuts closest to the board cam keep it in place.  You can remove the C CS adapter and screw in your c-mount nose piece.  This "pair" will give you about .38x reduction:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item339aa86b3f  NOTE:  My guess is the seller would take about $25 or so as a best offer.  He sells the nosepiece only for $10 "best offer" if you need just a nosepiece.  For those new to EAA a focal reducer is your friend and is the key to shorter integrations.

 

I attach a 10mm x 30mm x 30mm fan (sold on ebay) on the rear of the box (drawing air out from the 1 inch hole I drilled).  I attach the fan to the box with M12-20 screws, washers and nuts.  My fans draw the warm air out.  To vent the camera, I drill 4 holes close to the front of the camera nose piece (NOTE: place C CS adapter over front of hole and use it as a template before you attach the board to the cover).  I also drill two holes on each side of the box near the 4 corners (close to the front) of the box (near the cover) with a 1/16 inch drill bit.

 

You can use the 2 extra wires on the supplied cable for powering the fan (they are actually for IR LEDS).

 

If one wishes to do CCS' DIY for a hand remote, these are useful parts:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item1c37b9dc94    Note:  IR lead can be used for the fan if you want one.

 

and

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item19eecbfb5d  Note:  For two wire feed to the 5 button remote control box.

 

The cable (supplied) could be cut (2 pin wire harness that inserts in to the board cam) and used in lieu of both parts above if one desires though.  The supplied cable would be for Power and Video.  Cutting the two wires would disconnect the joystick.

 

Added:  If you decide to use the fan be sure you get one that's 12 volts.  Your lead is powered by a 12v power source.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 20 January 2015 - 02:35 PM.

  • Vondragonnoggin, KS and lhoracio like this

#28 photo444

photo444

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Hillsborough, NJ

Posted 20 January 2015 - 02:27 PM

David,

 

You are a true DYIer.  It's good to give out all those information where those have to be.

 

One thing: The cam package comes with two lens mounting adapters: one for C-mount and the other for 12mm lens.  All you need is an adapter for 1 1/4" adapter.  I think C-mount to 1 1/4" is cheaper (http://www.ebay.com/...item3380a66e1a).

 

There are many different ways to configure interface.  Your suggestions are very valid. Thanks.

 

WC, 

 

I would like to hear how you make out including the comparison with DSO-1.

 

Paul



#29 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 02:32 PM

Paul,

 

The case you linked to (and purchased) is for M12 lenses.  The nosepiece would have to screw in to an M12 mount (not c/cs).  That's why I placed the link for the other nosepiece.

 

David



#30 photo444

photo444

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Hillsborough, NJ

Posted 20 January 2015 - 02:40 PM

David,

 

It is for C/Cs-mount. :)

They (SecurityCameras) ship another adapter for 12 mm in the package. So either ways will work.

 

Paul


Edited by photo444, 20 January 2015 - 02:42 PM.


#31 wcstarguy

wcstarguy

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 04 Dec 2008

Posted 20 January 2015 - 02:45 PM

David, There are several m mount to c mount adapters listed on ebay that are less $ than the one you listed...(http://www.ebay.com/...=item19e6493cb4) . I'll have to wait for the case to see what might work or go the Radio Shack route.

 

Paul, I will post something on the camera comparisons when I get everything. wc



#32 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 02:50 PM

David,

 

It is for C/Cs-mount. :)

They (SecurityCameras) ship another adapter for 12 mm in the package. So either ways will work.

 

Paul

That sounds great then Paul. 

 

David B in NM



#33 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 02:57 PM

David, There are several m mount to c mount adapters listed on ebay that are less $ than the one you listed...(http://www.ebay.com/...=item19e6493cb4) . I'll have to wait for the case to see what might work or go the Radio Shack route.

 

Paul, I will post something on the camera comparisons when I get everything. wc

The adapter you linked to screws in to a c-mount and allows you to use M12 lenses.  The adapter I linked to allows you to screw in to an M12 mount and then in to your telescope focuser.  Two different adapters serving two different purposes.  In the past, the one I linked to would also have been known as a Mogg adapter.

 

http://www.pk3.org/A...ogg_adapter.htm

 

These were used many years ago by us when we were hacking webcams for EAA and imaging.

 

Since Paul has stated the case gives both options you should be good to go without any adapter.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 20 January 2015 - 03:16 PM.


#34 photo444

photo444

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Hillsborough, NJ

Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:30 PM

WC and David,

 

The 4th picure in the POST#1 shows a vinyl bag containing two black objects in it.  One on the right is for 12mm, and the left one is for C/Cs. 

 

When my cameras arrived, one box contained both adapters, and  the other contained two of 12mm ones.  So I contacted Katie but the piece has to come from Hong Kong warehouse.

 

Speaking of the Hong Kong warehouse, the metal housing I have linked is coming from Hong Kong and cheap $2.00 but there is one in the US warehouse but it is $6.00 with quicker delivery.  Both housings, however, has built-in 12mm thread.

 

Yes I remember the Mogg adapter, David.

 

Paul



#35 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:39 PM

Paul,

 

Yes, I understand the board cam comes with 2 mounts (C and M12).  IMHO, neither will have to used if the order the case you linked to in your last post.

 

This is the link to the case in your first post.  I see only 12mm mount, not C-CS.

 

http://www.securityc...M-Portable.html

 

David B in NM



#36 wcstarguy

wcstarguy

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 04 Dec 2008

Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:41 PM

Paul, sounds like the built in 12mm thread on the metal housing ($2 or $6) might prevent using the c mount lens adapter with the housing, if I attach the c mount adapter directly to the board it won't fit through the metal housing. Sorry if I'm just being dense. Thanks, wc



#37 barbarosa

barbarosa

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2111
  • Joined: 11 Apr 2010
  • Loc: 130miles W of Yosemite

Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:47 PM


His initial experiments showed he could achieve the same result at x128 (2 seconds) with AGC and DNR on low with this camera that it took the LN300 x1024 with no AGC or DNR (17 secs) to achieve (both in color).

 

WC,

 

You'll find the DSO is about 2x as fast as this board cam.

 

David B in NM

 

 

 

Paul

.  It is clear that SC2000 already outperforms over LN300. 

I think I will order one just to try it. However I am now confused. Is this board cam more than twice as fast as as the LN-300 but only half as fast as the DSO?



#38 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:48 PM

Paul, sounds like the built in 12mm thread on the metal housing ($2 or $6) might prevent using the c mount lens adapter with the housing, if I attach the c mount adapter directly to the board it won't fit through the metal housing. Sorry if I'm just being dense. Thanks, wc

IMHO, the board camera only is mounted in to the case.  The front of the case has the mount (M12).  Unless you order the "Mogg-type" adapter you'll be confined to just using M12 lenses.   Useful for an All Sky Cam, questionable for a finder or guider.

 

In order to use the C/CS adapter that is part of the camera kit you'd have to make your own box.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 20 January 2015 - 03:49 PM.


#39 wcstarguy

wcstarguy

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 04 Dec 2008

Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:50 PM

David, that is what I heard...wc

 

 

That's "Mogg" as opposed to "Moog"... :crazy:


Edited by wcstarguy, 20 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.


#40 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 03:58 PM

David,

 

The board camera is better than an LN300 camera because it doesn't default to mono when you use AGC and DNR.  Picture 3 illustrates this.  When compared to the x1024 image taken by the LN300 at 17 sec the image taken by the board cam with AGC and DNR shows it is more capable in color.

 

The LN300 defaults to mono when the AGC is turn on.  This board camera doesn't.  So, the limit (in color) for the LN300 is x1024 with no AGC.

 

If you don't mind a mono image and use the AGC and DNR in the LN300 you would achieve the same results in the LN300 (in mono) twice as fast as the board cam.  This is mainly the result of the DSP being better in the LN300.

 

The DSO uses a newer DSP than the board cam.  The firmware has also been flashed so it doesn't default to mono when AGC and DNR are applied.  Hence, it will be twice as fast as the board cam in color (better DSP). 

 

David B in NM



#41 photo444

photo444

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Hillsborough, NJ

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:05 PM

Paul,

 

Yes, I understand the board cam comes with 2 mounts (C and M12).  IMHO, neither will have to used if the order the case you linked to in your last post.

 

This is the link to the case in your first post.  I see only 12mm mount, not C-CS.

 

http://www.securityc...M-Portable.html

 

David B in NM

That is right. If you use the metal housing you don't need the adaptors.



#42 photo444

photo444

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Hillsborough, NJ

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:05 PM

Paul, sounds like the built in 12mm thread on the metal housing ($2 or $6) might prevent using the c mount lens adapter with the housing, if I attach the c mount adapter directly to the board it won't fit through the metal housing. Sorry if I'm just being dense. Thanks, wc

I realize that also.



#43 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:27 PM

One other note for those ordering the case.  It appears as though you'll have to cut the corners of your board cam to allow it to fit.  The board cam comes with 8 holes pre-drilled.  The case is made for the inner 4 holes. 

 

The easiest way to reduce the size of the board is to use a pair of diagonal cutters.

 

http://www.harborfre...tter-40699.html

 

Cut between the two holes in each corner.  The outside of the board will "fall off".  You can see the two holes (per corner) I'm talking about in the link below.

 

http://www.securityc...Cable%2dUS.html

 

David B in NM



#44 TropixSky

TropixSky

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 55
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2014
  • Loc: United States

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:32 PM

Wow, what a nice project, this camera seems to be very capable I just order one for myself to

 

Mario



#45 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:36 PM

Mario,

 

Maybe you could find some way to make use of an arduino board with it and coach us on it!

 

I think you'd enjoy the camera project and am very confident you'd do a GREAT job with it.

 

David B in NM



#46 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:39 PM

I know Mario lives outside the US.  The link Paul provided in his first post is for US residents. 

 

For those interested in this camera who reside outside the US, the link below is to the Hong Kong warehouse.

 

http://www.securityc...Menu-Cable.html

 

Added:  The Hong Kong warehouse carries both NTSC and PAL.  US residents who want a PAL version have to order it from the link above.  The US Warehouse only stocks NTSC.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 20 January 2015 - 04:42 PM.


#47 photo444

photo444

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 353
  • Joined: 20 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Hillsborough, NJ

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:41 PM

Did anyone ever used Arduino to control these cameras?

It will be interesting.

 

David, it's good to link to the right place.

 

Paul


Edited by photo444, 20 January 2015 - 04:43 PM.


#48 TropixSky

TropixSky

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 55
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2014
  • Loc: United States

Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:57 PM

I communicate to the micro-ex with an arduino board (serial), I read that this board does not have the serial chip, but... there is allways a way...

 

Mario



#49 barbarosa

barbarosa

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2111
  • Joined: 11 Apr 2010
  • Loc: 130miles W of Yosemite

Posted 20 January 2015 - 06:38 PM

I communicate to the micro-ex with an arduino board (serial), I read that this board does not have the serial chip, but... there is allways a way...

 

Mario

If your order from HK, they offer a $10 RS 485 option. Would that do it?



#50 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 20 January 2015 - 06:45 PM

 

I communicate to the micro-ex with an arduino board (serial), I read that this board does not have the serial chip, but... there is allways a way...

 

Mario

If your order from HK, they offer a $10 RS 485 option. Would that do it?

 

I pm'd CCS earlier today.  He has this board cam already.  Perhaps we'll see a post here in the thread shortly for options.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 20 January 2015 - 06:45 PM.



CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics