79 replies to this topic

[Rob155]

Hi all,

 

Everyone here loves astronomy, although I imagine almost everyone here is an amateur. Why did you not go pro? Do you regret not getting an advanced degree in astronomy/astrophysics? Or, are you happier doing some unrelated job and keeping astronomy as a hobby? As far as I see it, here are the pros and cons of both:

 

• Pros of being a professional astronomer: You get to do what you love for a living, you're on the forefront of research, surrounded by some of the world's brightest minds, you get to use the best equipment in the world for free!
• Cons of being a professional astronomer: A huge amount of schooling, much of which might not be interesting or relevant to what you want to eventually be doing. Hyper competition for relatively few jobs. You might have to move far away to a certain research station. You need to be able to eat math with a spoon.

 

• Pros of being an amateur astronomer: You can own your own equipment, focus on any low-payoff project that you like, network with plenty of hobbyist circles, even contribute to professional astronomy if you're lucky. You can likely find a job that isn't what you love, but earns you enough money to buy that 150MM Tak you've been salivating over. You can avoid most of the math that professionals endure. 
• Cons of being an amateur astronomer: You'll forever feel like you wasted your life not doing what you love, eternally jealous if the occasional professional astronomer you might meet at a bar.

 

Has anyone else struggled with this? I'm 30 now, and just got out of an MBA program and not feeling like a huge transition after all that. And I am earning enough money to fund my observing habit. But part of me just wants to pack it in and head back to school to be a professional astronomer. I do not love math, and the degree would get in the way of my hopes to start a family soon, so probably not the most practical choice. 

[gribley]

I quit a PhD program in astronomy because I realized I didn't want to spend the rest of my life doing that work.  I still love it, and find it interesting.  But I remember the day my officemate received a data tape in the mail with his observations -- I think it was from satellite data from ROSAT, so it makes sense that he couldn't be on site! -- and he uploaded it to his workstation and started analyzing the data. 

 

Relatively few astronomers actually use big telescopes; if they do, they don't ever touch them; this is all automated and run by professional observers.  I also knew plenty of professional astronomers who wouldn't be able to find the Big Dipper.  Professional astronomy is really almost unrelated to amateur observational astronomy.  

 

More importantly, my perspective on it was that although I got interested in astronomy for the beauty of it, that is not a major part of professional astronomy, virtually all of which involves sitting in front of a computer.  (Of course, that's what I do now, anyway.)  I still miss it sometimes, but I've never regretted that decision in the slightest. 

[sg6]

What do you mean by the Pro of being a professional astronomer?
If you think it incorporates looking through a scope then it does not. Astronomy is not looking visually at things, it is collecting data then working on and analysing that data. You live in Atlanta and book time on a scope somewhere, maybe Hawaii, maybe Chile or Australia, but you do not sit there looking through an eyepiece.

 

Speaking to a research student 4 days back and as they said astronomy incorporates more debug of C programs then anything else.

 

Also have you met some of the worlds brightest minds?

You are on planet Earth, they are often not., and very few will have a conversation with mere mortals, also your idea of a conversation is not theirs.

 

If you want to work on a scope then become a maintenance engineer, software admin. network engineer, one person I met who had direct conact with scopes was a low temperature physicist/engineer - they looked after the cooling of the sensors - but not an astronomer. Almost the last thing anywhere will allow is some **** astronomer actually get at their equipment.

 

Most astronomy is done in the IR, X-ray and Radio wavelengths, your eyes cannot see those so sitting you down saying take a look athe SagA flaring in the x-ray band in not an option.

[MikeBOKC]

I could not master the higher math involved. I also agree with Gribley, most academic astronomy is now done with data on computers. I expect there are many of them who go an entire year without looking through an eyepiece.

 

Now I would have found some other aspects of the profession, like running a planetarium, much more appealing at the professional level. But I a content with my amateur gear (which would have been considered professional level just a couple of generations ago) and the freedom to observe what, when and where I choose. I think it is very telling that to my knowledge there are almost no professional academic astronomers on this site. Not a put-down, but an illustration of how dramatically different the two pursuits can be.

[Tony Flanders]

Part of me just wants to pack it in and head back to school to be a professional astronomer. I do not love math ...

I think you just answered your own question. If you don't love math, you shouldn't try to be a professional astronomer.

Personally, I adore math. But I'm not sure I'm good enough at it to be a professional astronomer. Not many people are.

[Cotts]

I hope to join the growing group of amateurs who are bridging the gap between our 'side' of things and 'theirs'..   I have been measuring the Separation and Position Angle of double stars for a while now.  I'm working on two articles for the Journal of Double Star Observations which might get published in late 2015  (fingers crossed).  Other folks, some right here on CN, contribute corrections to the Washington Double Star Catalog...

 

There are lots of amateurs contributing to professional astronomy, discovering exo-planets, looking for near-Earth asteroids, monitoring variable stars, keeping an eye on flare stars, combing over robotic observatory images for supernovae, etc. etc.  We are not paid for our efforts so we are not professionals in the strictest sense.  But the work is scientific and is highly valued by the professional community.

 

Dave

[karstenkoch]

I've heard some stories from folks who would know about the true focus of activity at the PhD science level at university. Basically it's: "Don't waste your time on anything that does not directly contribute to the next major breakthrough or Nobel." If this thinking is true for astronomy as well, then you can forget about those enjoyable nights pondering the universe at the eyepiece.

[GeneT]

We all need hobbies that differentiate us from the work place. If astronomy was my job, it would no longer be a hobby, and I would have to find another one. 

[karstenkoch]

You just completed an MBA. What amateur astronomy business ideas have been kicking around in your head during that time? Probably not huge ROI, but you sound like you are driving by passion for the hobby anyway!

[Jon Isaacs]

Rob:

 

I am not a professional astronomer nor would I want to be. I have spent my life doing the things I love surrounded by bright minds doing research at the forefront. I have not only gotten to use some of the world's best equipment in my particular field, I have had the opportunity to conceive it, design it and oversee it's fabrication and then develop the experimental techniques the equipment facilitates, all the while getting paid..  

 

I know some "professional astronomers."  One in particular, Prof. Tom Murphy at USCD, he's a very hands on guy and understands the universe in a way that allows him to explain the complex concepts and topics in simple ways that make sense to non-astronomers.. But Tom doesn't get to spend much time out under the stars and that's what I really enjoy doing... I admire Dave Cott's interest in making measurements but I have spent good part of my life making careful measurements, I would rather just enjoy the views of the heavens above and leave the measurements to the laboratory.

 

I will offer this tidbit of advice..  Sometimes doing something because you love it, that can be a very good thing.  But sometimes, when all is said and done, you discover that in the effort to make your passion pay a salary, the joy and passion disappears..

 

Jon 

[karstenkoch]

But sometimes, when all is said and done, you discover that in the effort to make your passion pay a salary, the joy and passion disappears.

 

Great post. Sage advice. When sometimes isn't this time, the fortunate person can make it happen. In those cases, it requires passion and dedication few can muster. Here was one of them:

 

Steve Jobs's Commencement Speech

http://news.stanford...obs-061505.html

[Feidb]

I have NEVER have had any interest in professional astronomy. In fact, despite being at this passion for 48+ years, I don't even consider the two on the same planet, metaphorically speaking.

 

I have always liked to look through telescopes and build them and eventually log my observations and enjoy the night sky. I could care less about the what where when why and how of it.

 

I'm allergic to math.

 

I could care less why that stuff up there happens and if it involves any kind of math to find it out, fuggedaboudit. I don't want to find out.

 

Let someone else do it.

 

I once looked into taking an astronomy class, but when I realized it was a glorified math class, I ran as fast as I could the other direction. That had absolutely nothing to do with what I was into.

 

Sure, I use the occasional bit of math to figure the paraboloidal curve on a mirror, eyepiece magnification, bla bla bla. Those formulas were already figured out by someone else before I was born. All I have to do is plug in the numbers and do a little calculation. That's as deep into the "science" as I want to go.

 

As for how a star forms, if I can't learn from either Carl Sagan or Neil Degrassi Tyson without falling asleep, it isn't important enough.

 

I'd rather learn what new lists of deep sky objects are available or when someone comes up with the ultimate null test for ANY mirror parabola, regardless of focal ratio. Something that could be made with junk parts that doesn't require precision specialized parts I can't make in my garage. Now THAT would be the type of science I could get into!

 

So, there you have it. I could NEVER be an astronomer. I've never had an interest in making something like that my career as you have to be a math and physics wiz, just to get in the door, let alone find a field where there's any employment.

 

I happen to love where I work and I love my passion for deep sky observing. Professional astronomer? Pffft!

 

By the way, I applaud and admire the professional astronomers I DO know, and I know a few. I also know from talking to them that once again, I NEVER want to do what they do. However, I know that things are in good hands.

Edited by Feidb, 15 February 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[SleepIsWrong]

I liken it to my love of music.  When I think what it might take to be a professional musician - years of classes and lessons and running scales and various fingering exercises, studying music theory, being broke most of the time, I realize I have no desire to be a professional musician.   But not for a single moment does my lack of understanding of all of that prevent me from intensely enjoying music (of many varieties - I can listen to and enjoy everything from rap to Rachmaninoff).  I think a lot of amateur astronomers are the same as regards enjoying the wonders of astronomy without needing or wanting the nuts 'n bolts of the science itself. 

 

Mike

www.beverlyhillsastronomer.org

[SpooPoker]

Professional astronomy, like other areas of theoretical and applied science, is a results driven industry where new and valid contributions are expected to be made (whether adding to existing knowledge or generating IP/patents for industry).  Amatuers are under no such constraint - it is a hobby after all.  There is no gap to be bridged - the amatuer and professional scene are entirely different and share very little in common.  How many amatuers go out there and make measurements, develop or add to an existing theory, and then publish the results?

Edited by SpooPoker, 15 February 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Pinbout]

prof. -

 

amateur -

[csrlice12]

OMG No....that'd take all the fun out of it....

[mich_al]

OMG No....that'd take all the fun out of it....

 

I just spent time on a long winded response to the OP that I decided to not post.  THIS boils it down to what I was trying to say and my first hand experience! 

[Rick Woods]

I'd like it if I could just sit there at the eyepiece of the Hale scope and look at whatever I wanted all night long, and not have to actually accomplish anything.

Pros around the beginning of the 20th century had it wired. Sit at the eyepiece, sketch Mars. Life was tough.

[havasman]

We had two presenters one month last year at the Texas Astronomical Society of Dallas meeting. One was a heavy hitter at the McDonald Observatory who allowed that part of his responsibility was scheduling professional astronomers for their first looks through an eyepiece while they were on-site. The second was an asst professor at the University of Texas in Austin who talked about his exoplanet discoveries and allowed that he was one of the guys on schedule for his first glimpse of the sky through a scope.

Those are pros.

I'm happy to be a mere squid amateur dilettante.

[Philler]

If you go back a few hundred years there wasn't this distinction so much between amateur and professional, like Galileo, Huygens, Kepler, Messier, Herschel, Lord Ross and others.  And what about Clyde Tombaugh and Burnham, where do they fit in?  To me we are all astronomers whether we do this for a living or for a hobby.

"Professionals", astronomers, astrophysicists?  JMO, but I am not awed or impressed by them...maybe a few like Newton and Hubble and  Hawking. 

Edited by Philler, 16 February 2015 - 03:44 AM.

[Tony Flanders]

If you go back a few hundred years there wasn't this distinction so much between amateur and professional, like Galileo, Huygens, Kepler, Messier, Herschel, Lord Ross and others.

That was then, this is now. Galileo was an amazing person, brilliant and skilled -- but also very lucky. As a pioneer, he perforce made new discoveries every time he pointed his telescope at the sky. All that low-hanging fruit has now been picked.

And what about Clyde Tombaugh and Burnham, where do they fit in?

Clyde Tombaugh was an amateur turned pro, a perfectly common and natural route. Burnham was a marginal pro.

To me we are all astronomers whether we do this for a living or for a hobby. "Professionals", astronomers, astrophysicists?  JMO, but I am not awed or impressed by them...maybe a few like Newton and Hubble and  Hawking.

You're missing the point entirely. Stargazers like me who observe the night sky for our personal delectation are doing something fundamentally different from professional astronomers. My goal is personal satisfaction; a professional's goal is advancement of knowledge and understanding. I wouldn't say that either is better or worse than the other, just different.

I do know a fair number of professional astronomers who also enjoy getting out at night and looking through the eyepiece of a telescope. But they'll be the first to tell you that they're two very different pursuits.

As for being awed and impressed, that's even less to the point. I am very impressed by the work of many amateurs, and by many professionals, and by people who straddle the boundary, such as Brian Skiff. But I hate the celebrity view of science. Sure, science has plenty of brilliant minds, but what matters is the patient accumulation of knowledge and understanding, which is largely done by the grunts in the trenches.

[penguinx64]

You mean, people get paid for doing this?

[Jon Isaacs]

If you go back a few hundred years there wasn't this distinction so much between amateur and professional, like Galileo, Huygens, Kepler, Messier, Herschel, Lord Ross and others.  And what about Clyde Tombaugh and Burnham, where do they fit in?  To me we are all astronomers whether we do this for a living or for a hobby.

"Professionals", astronomers, astrophysicists?  JMO, but I am not awed or impressed by them...maybe a few like Newton and Hubble and  Hawking. 

 

I am impressed by the "professional" astronomers and astrophysicists I know.  I know a lot more than they do about how to split a tight double star and what to expect when looking through a 16 inch scope versus an 10 inch scope and what filter to use the see the California Nebula and the Horsehead and how to collimate a Newtonian..  

 

But they know a lot more about the fundamentals of the universe and can explain the basic physics of a globular cluster in simple terms that even I can understand. They may not know how to collimate a Newtonian with a Barlowed laser but they have a better understand of the fundamentals of light and optics than I do.. 

 

Jon

[Pinbout]

 

but they have a better understand of the fundamentals of light and optics than I do..

 

and can explain it mathematically. the universal language.

[Jon Isaacs]

You mean, people get paid for doing this?

 

There are people who get paid to do the things you and I do, stargaze. But in general, they are very skilled amateur astronomers with a creative imagination, a broad viewpoint and a unique skill for writing...  It's work..   Tony Flanders for example..  When you read Sky and Telescope, it's Tony and his cohorts that make that happen.

 

Jon Isaacs