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Celestron C5 Registry

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#101 terraclarke

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:08 PM

And so what can you tell us about Patent No. 3837125? Is it related to the wording "Schmidt Aspheric Photo-Catadioptric Lens" on the label of my C5? I have not seen another with that designation.


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#102 Dartguy

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:21 PM

Chuck:

    Not 100% certain but I have seen it, as well as the revisions in patents, in product designs and in design changes of machine tools in products liability cases which I have handled so I have surmised that this is what numbers like "RE 29878" which appear on my C5 Telephoto lens which numbering which differs from the numbering which appears on others (such as Terra's C5) refers to and references.  That's why I was wondering whether anyone has acquired any of the patents on their scopes or whether Piekiel mentions them in his literature or has copies of them published in his book.  It makes no sense to expend the time and energy looking for something which perhaps has already been found.

Bill

I had a look at mine tonight.  It is #799.  The manual is from June of 1977.  The number on the corrector is H2817.

 

If you like more info or pics, just let me know.  The more I look at it, the more I think it was unused, or at least not used often at all.  It is spotless.

 

I need to figure out what to do with it, i.e, a mount.


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#103 Tarzanrock

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:52 PM

And so what can you tell us about Patent No. 3837125? Is it related to the wording "Schmidt Aspheric Photo-Catadioptric Lens" on the label of my C5? I have not seen another with that designation.

Nor have I.  That specific language is not on my black C5 Telephoto lens. The number suffix "125" appears to be the general patent on the corrector which was subject to the litigation case which I attached above.  We are going to have to get copies of the patents and the revisions to learn more about it.  That is why I was asking (here or on that Orange Tube Family thread) about whether or not that information is contained in Piekiel's book.  I particularly would like to know the type of glass which was used in the correctors and how the telephoto corrector differed from the corrector in the C5 visual scope.



#104 Tarzanrock

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 11:03 PM

 

Chuck:

    Not 100% certain but I have seen it, as well as the revisions in patents, in product designs and in design changes of machine tools in products liability cases which I have handled so I have surmised that this is what numbers like "RE 29878" which appear on my C5 Telephoto lens which numbering which differs from the numbering which appears on others (such as Terra's C5) refers to and references.  That's why I was wondering whether anyone has acquired any of the patents on their scopes or whether Piekiel mentions them in his literature or has copies of them published in his book.  It makes no sense to expend the time and energy looking for something which perhaps has already been found.

Bill

I had a look at mine tonight.  It is #799.  The manual is from June of 1977.  The number on the corrector is H2817.

 

If you like more info or pics, just let me know.  The more I look at it, the more I think it was unused, or at least not used often at all.  It is spotless.

 

I need to figure out what to do with it, i.e, a mount.

 

Mine doesn't have a number on the corrector.  Is your telephoto the pebble grained one?  Mine is.  I'm going to mount mine later on this week on a Manfrotto tripod with a Manfrotto ball head camera head.  I have my C90 mounted in that fashion and I have found it difficult to use as a camera so I've been thinking that what I really need is a ball head which has slow motion controls.  I haven't had the time to look into those but at the present I think that this is what will be needed to properly use the instrument.  Celestron sent me some new software for their planetary camera; it arrived on Saturday; and, the Celestron technician, Jesse, is supposed to telephone me on Monday.  If he calls -- I will certainly inquire about the C5 Telephotos lens -- we have been discussing it in e-mail correspondence.  I want to attach a Pentax DSLR to mine and use it as a telephoto lens with a Pentax 1.7x telextender lens attached thus making it about +/- 2,000 mm focal length for astrophotography.  One of the problems is that on mine (and unlike Terra's) there are no holes where the back of the Telephoto is affixed to the cylindrical lens which makes it impossible to attach a finderscope.  I discussed this with Celestron and asked them if they would drill holes into the back casing and they specifically told me not to do that nor to have that done.



#105 Tarzanrock

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 11:16 PM

Dartguy:

    My corrector is a blank one with no numbering like that which is depicted in  the photo of Terra's corrector in Post 76 above.  The rear casing on my C5 Telephoto is completely different from the grey rear casing like that depicted in the photo of Terra's C5 Telephoto casing in the pictures in Posts 74 and 75.  There are no screws nor screw holes on my C5's rear casing where it is affixed to the cylindrical tube.

    I am curious about yours since the difference in the numbering on the face of the corrector of your C5 Telephoto?  It could be because yours is F/6 -- 750 mm focal length instrument and mine is F/10 and 1,250 mm focal length instrument.

Bill



#106 Erik Bakker

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 03:36 PM

Does anyone have the rare Black fork mounted C5?

Yep, I have one:

 

C5 tabletop.jpeg

 

You can find more info on my scope here


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#107 DAVIDG

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 05:07 PM

 

And so what can you tell us about Patent No. 3837125? Is it related to the wording "Schmidt Aspheric Photo-Catadioptric Lens" on the label of my C5? I have not seen another with that designation.

Nor have I.  That specific language is not on my black C5 Telephoto lens. The number suffix "125" appears to be the general patent on the corrector which was subject to the litigation case which I attached above.  We are going to have to get copies of the patents and the revisions to learn more about it.  That is why I was asking (here or on that Orange Tube Family thread) about whether or not that information is contained in Piekiel's book.  I particularly would like to know the type of glass which was used in the correctors and how the telephoto corrector differed from the corrector in the C5 visual scope.

 

 Here is link to that patent. It is just another version of Johnson/Celestron  version of making the corrector plate http://patft.uspto.g...5&RS=PN/3837125

 

                 - Dave 


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#108 CHASLX200

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:42 PM

 

Does anyone have the rare Black fork mounted C5?

Yep, I have one:

 

attachicon.gifC5 tabletop.jpeg

 

You can find more info on my scope here

 

Never knew they came out with black that early.  I remember the glossy black around 1984.


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#109 Tarzanrock

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:50 PM

Hi Dave:

     Thanks for the link.  I appreciate all your gracious help.  Here is the link to the Patent number on my C5 Telephoto scope, Patent Number 3,837,124.

http://patft.uspto.g...4&RS=PN/3837124

Bill



#110 Tarzanrock

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 11:45 PM

     Here is an interesting review of the Celestron C5 Telephoto Lens which was published over on Photonet by the reviewer, JDM von Weinberg.

     The attached article contains some interesting literature from Celestron about the lens as well as some additional reviews of other competing high end camera lenses including the Questar 700.

 

  These are some of the more noteworthy comments about the Celestron C5 Telephoto Lens: 

 

    "I think the results do suggest that American specialized lens production was pretty well competitive with what was coming from Japan in optical terms, if not in terms of convenience of use. To date (ominous tones from above), I do not have any of the Zeiss Jena mirror lenses to compare.”

 

     "As seen in the images above, the little focus knob is more a micrometer device than one practical for rapid focus in sports or birds on the wing."

 

     “In MP's tests, the 1250/10 Celestron and its 750/6 variant (also sold as Honewell Lumetar, that's what MP tested) are in the same class as the 700/8 Questar. If you're back to accumulating and trying out mirror lenses you really ought to get a 750/6 Celestron/Lumetar or a Q 700. These two, and also the 1250/10 you now have, stand out from the other mirror lenses MP has reported on.”

 

 

http://photo.net/cla.../00dp0S?start=0


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#111 terraclarke

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:39 PM

I think what you are talking about above is yet again something else, another variant. Mine is clearly an astronomical configuration, not that of a telephoto lens or a spotting scope and the label states "Schmidt Aspheric Photo-Catadioptric Lens" not "Celestron C5 Telephoto Lens". (Other label/model variants: "Schmidt Telescope" and the "C5 Spotter".)


Edited by terraclarke, 10 January 2017 - 01:44 PM.


#112 Tarzanrock

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:46 PM

Terra:

     I know.  I have the C5 Telephoto lens like the one depicted in the photographs in the articles I referenced above.  The difference between them that I can tell is that the on the C5 Telephoto lens the interior of the tube is blackened by Celestron with some special black paint to reduce stray light reflections; the focuser is different (it being like a micro-focuser similar to a Feathertouch one); and, I suspect (but I do not know for certain) that the glass composition on the corrector plate is different (some type of optical glass).  What I have been trying to find out is the answer to the question about the glass on the front corrector plate of the C5 Telephoto lens and whether it differs from the glass on the corrector plates of the other C5 models?

     The other issue is the the configuration and design of the rear component of the C5 Telephoto Lens.   It was designed and marketed by Celestron as a photographic instrument first and as an astronomical instrument second.  The photographic reviews of the late 1970's like the one I have attached above state that it is as good as any mirrored lenses coming out of Japan and elsewhere including the Questar 700 which sold for $1,000 back in those days.

     The rear component part of the Celestron C5 Telephoto Lens does not have any holes nor screws mounted to it where it affixes to the cylindrical tube.  I contacted Celestron's technical department about having holes machined into it so that I could mount a finderscope to sight the scope for astrophotography; and, I was expressly told by two Celestron technicians not to drill into to it nor to have a machinist drill into it.

     I use Pentax gear (cameras; lenses; and, astronomical eyepieces [XW's; XP's; XO's; XL's; and, orthoscopic ones] so I checked out the Pentax reflex mirrored camera lenses -- specifically Pentax's 1,000 mm reflex lens.

    The optical design of the Pentax "telephoto lens" is similar to the Celestron one except that Pentax incorporates addition lenses into their design which now makes me wonder whether or not Celestron did as well.  Celestron marketed their C5 Telephoto series with and through the Honeywell Corporation at the time; and, Pentax likewise owned and/or sold their lenses and cameras through Honeywell for a period of time back in those days.

     The optical train in the Pentax "telephoto lens" is 6 elements in 4 groups.

    Here is a link to the Pentax "telephoto lens" and the optical lens diagrams which are in that configuration. 

Bill

http://www.pentaxfor...eflex-Lens.html


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#113 DAVIDG

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:33 PM

 I'll be surprised if the optics in the C-5 telephoto are different then the astronomical version. From the start Celestron was designing their  optics for both photography and visual use so there would be no reason to have a different design. If you did anything, they would use the optics that didn't meet visual spec's for the photographic version since when used at prime focus, the system is operating at a  magnification that is too low to need diffraction limited optics. Almost all photographics lens are nowhere near diffraction limited since they have to cover a wide range focus distance.  So the designer tries to balance these aberration over the f-numbers  and the range of focus. The optics only have to produce an image that has  a resolution equal to or slightly less then the film or sensor used which is worse then diffraction limited.  That is why when photographic lenses are tested,  they take  image of resolution charts at a given distance. 

   Mechanically  the telephoto version would need a longer range of focus so it can cover the typical  distances used in long range photography vs  infinity focus for astronomical use.  

  As for the glass used in the corrector, it only needs to be of optical quality since the corrector has no optical power. It does not focus the light it just distorts the incoming wave front in a controlled manner so the least inexpensive crown type glass is used.  This is why you'll find the correctors made of green plate glass. 

  As for your Pentax lens vs the Celestron, the Celestron version uses an aspheric secondary mirror to correct  the system for spherical aberration. Aspheric optics cost more money to make then spherical ones so your Pentax most likely uses all spherical optics and use lenses with spherical surfaces to do the job that the aspheric secondary does in the Celestron. Even thou there are a  number of lens in the Pentax it is actually cheaper to make.

   Schmidt optics also have a reliability issue in that the corrector is easy to break. This is why the military use Maksutov optics. The thick corrector in a Mak is mechanically much more robust and you can launch them into space or  place on the back of huge gun and they can take the shock. Try that with a Schmidt and you'll have pile of broke glass. 

 

                             - Dave 



#114 Tarzanrock

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 04:22 PM

Dave:

     Thanks.  I honestly don't know enough about glass; how glass is made; or the ingredients utilized to have any real informed opinion about it.  I know that Celestron used some type of white glass and some crown glass but that's just about all I know about it and all that I have so far found out about it. 

     Modern Pentax camera lenses have a mixture of all types of concave and convex pieces of different glass (E.D. glass, flourite glass and other types of glass) assembled in all types of configurations which no one other than an optical designer could likely understand.

    The other thing which interested me in all of this is how very similar the testing and the results were between the Pentax C5 Telephoto lens and the Questar 700 lens.  See, those tests conducted by Modern Photography in the link I referenced.

    If the glass is similar -- then it must likely be the quality of the mirrors.

    I know that, in those days, Celestron was guaranteeing and warranting the quality of their mirrors to be "on average" 1/20th wave peak to peak -- assuming I read that correctly in their advertising and the manuals I have for my C8 and the C5 Telephoto Lens.

Bill



#115 terraclarke

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:35 AM

Terra:

     I know.  I have the C5 Telephoto lens like the one depicted in the photographs in the articles I referenced above.  The difference between them that I can tell is that the on the C5 Telephoto lens the interior of the tube is blackened by Celestron with some special black paint to reduce stray light reflections; the focuser is different (it being like a micro-focuser similar to a Feathertouch one); and, I suspect (but I do not know for certain) that the glass composition on the corrector plate is different (some type of optical glass).  What I have been trying to find out is the answer to the question about the glass on the front corrector plate of the C5 Telephoto lens and whether it differs from the glass on the corrector plates of the other C5 models?

     The other issue is the the configuration and design of the rear component of the C5 Telephoto Lens.   It was designed and marketed by Celestron as a photographic instrument first and as an astronomical instrument second.  The photographic reviews of the late 1970's like the one I have attached above state that it is as good as any mirrored lenses coming out of Japan and elsewhere including the Questar 700 which sold for $1,000 back in those days.

     The rear component part of the Celestron C5 Telephoto Lens does not have any holes nor screws mounted to it where it affixes to the cylindrical tube.  I contacted Celestron's technical department about having holes machined into it so that I could mount a finderscope to sight the scope for astrophotography; and, I was expressly told by two Celestron technicians not to drill into to it nor to have a machinist drill into it.

     I use Pentax gear (cameras; lenses; and, astronomical eyepieces [XW's; XP's; XO's; XL's; and, orthoscopic ones] so I checked out the Pentax reflex mirrored camera lenses -- specifically Pentax's 1,000 mm reflex lens.

    The optical design of the Pentax "telephoto lens" is similar to the Celestron one except that Pentax incorporates addition lenses into their design which now makes me wonder whether or not Celestron did as well.  Celestron marketed their C5 Telephoto series with and through the Honeywell Corporation at the time; and, Pentax likewise owned and/or sold their lenses and cameras through Honeywell for a period of time back in those days.

     The optical train in the Pentax "telephoto lens" is 6 elements in 4 groups.

    Here is a link to the Pentax "telephoto lens" and the optical lens diagrams which are in that configuration. 

Bill

http://www.pentaxfor...eflex-Lens.html

Yep, I see that Bill. Mine is a completely different animal from the one in the picture in the advert (post #110 above). Mine (post #74 and 75, page 3 of this thread) is identically built and outfitted like all the other orange tube astronomical SCTs, the only difference being the label and the duel patent numbers. It came with the C5 and C8 astronomical manual. It's optics are extremely good for astronomical observation and present a very sharp starr test. So I still find the wording on the label very curious. 



#116 Tarzanrock

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:15 PM

Terra:

     I know which is why I was particularly interested in yours and the wording which was on that metal plate, i.e. "Schmidt Aspheric Photo-Catadioptric Lens."

    My orange tube C8 was manufactured in 1979-1980.  I got it from a camera seller who was a retiree from Eastman Kodak who in turn got it from his longtime friend and co-worker at Eastman Kodak [now deceased] who I was told had that C8 specially built by Celestron on a special order specifically for film astrophotography.  That C8 I have is one tack sharp instrument -- better than most expensive high end refractors I've looked through.

    My C8 came with the original footlocker and a Celestron radial guider.  There was no diagonal nor were there any other parts other than the original Celestron tripod mount which was affixed to the optical tube.

    My recollection is that the metal plate on your instrument containing the language "Schmidt Aspheric Photo-Catadioptric Lens" was affixed to the base of the fork mount.

    Late last night/early this a.m. I came across some Questar 700 advertising which contains some more detailed information about the glass and mirror in that Questar.  I downloaded it but have not yet read it.  I merely noted when I cursorily read it that it is different from Celestron.

    Got to run to a meeting now.

Bill


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#117 Masvingo

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 10:17 AM

Hello All

 

With apologies again for the delay (life, work, yada, yada), I've finally got around to updating the C5 registry and the 3rd edition can now be found at this link:

 

C5 Registry

 

Many thanks to all those who have contributed their serial numbers. 

 

Please keep them coming and if known, it would be good to have the corrector number and any date on the motors and the original purchase date if known.  Also, for the early numbers (ie prior to the change to the 5xxxxx sequence) please also give any spaces that appear in the serial number sequence if not obvious from a photo.

 

Any further contributions, clarifications and corrections gratefully received.

 

As with the C8 Registry, new entries are in blue, and to keep the file size down I've only shown an image of the top part of the list in the image below, but the link above will take you to the full version.

Attached Thumbnails

  • c5serialv3part.jpg

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#118 Don W

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 02:23 PM

Mine is 61752. The OTA is salvaged from a Nexstar 5i that had dead drives. Silver and black with a red-dot finder. I installed a Vixen style dovetail and can use it on several different mounts.

 

IMG_0641.JPG

 

c5 2.JPG

 

C5 1.JPG


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#119 Old Man

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:27 PM

Well, even though mine is the C5+ version, I guess you will register it. 

 Number on the correcter plate is, #54428. I do not see any other numbers unless they would be on the bottom and I do not see any there without removing it from the motor driven wedge.

 I do have the original receipt from when I purchased this, dated 9/9/96. I purchased it from Adorama, and they have a number next to the scope designation that is #11030. However there is no numbers for the telescopes in the 1996 catalogs. So this may be a serial number, I don't know. Now all of the other accessories I purchased also have numbers next to them and they match the numbers in the 1996 Celestron accessory catalog, [ yes I still have the 1996 accessory catalog and the 1996 Celestron telescope catalog ] that came with my C5+, even still have the original shipping box with all the foam.

 This is an extremely nice little scope, that satisfies me very well. Now that I am retired, I find myself using it more than I ever did before. I was a semi-truck driver and never had much time.

 

How ever, I long for an 8 inch go-to scope, but it probably will never happen. I am going to try to post a picture of my little C5+, that I lovingly refer to as "Tennessee Tuxedo" and his Celestron Illuminated 9x50 RACI finder scope, "Chumley".

 

  Thanks,  Old Man

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#120 Masvingo

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 03:00 PM

Time for another update of the C5 registry - the latest edition is here:
 
C5 Registry
 
Thanks to Don W and Old Man for their serial numbers and for Old Man's original date of purchase, it's always nice to get a date that can tie in the later serial numbers. 

 

Old Man, the number on the secondary housing in the corrector plate, 54428, is the serial number.  I can only guess that the #11030 number is either a Celestron model number or an internal Adorama model or stock number.
 
Please keep them coming and if known, it would be good to have the corrector number and any date on the motors and the original purchase date if known.  Also, for the early numbers (ie prior to the change to the 5xxxxx sequence) please also give any spaces that appear in the serial number sequence if not obvious from a photo.
 
Any further contributions, clarifications and corrections gratefully received.
 
As before, new entries are in blue, and to keep the file size down I've only shown an image of the top part of the list in the image below, but the link above will take you to the full version.
 

 

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  • c5serialv4part.jpg

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#121 TerryWood

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:07 AM

Ok, received my early model C5 yesterday. It has a smooth orange OTA, special coatings and U.S. Patent stickers, port holes in the fork arms, small base, black corrector ring, black metal cover, blue trunk, serial # 1-1795-6. Great condition!

 

Also, the inside of the OTA is blackened, much more so than my 1975 C-8 (which is an excellent scope).

 

V/R

 

Terry

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Edited by TerryWood, 24 June 2017 - 11:47 AM.

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#122 TerryWood

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:22 AM

It also has a shiny metal (silver in color) disc cover for access to the gear box. 

 

V/R

 

Terry

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  • image.jpg

Edited by TerryWood, 24 June 2017 - 10:29 AM.


#123 Bomber Bob

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:23 AM

That's a purdee one Terry!  Those O/T C5's are about my favorite of the lineup.  Nice!!


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#124 TerryWood

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:28 AM

Thanks JW! It's a looker and a really handy size. I might even get to use it tonight. Looks like most of the crazy weather went through last night, so keeping my fingers crossed! On a separate note...did you buy that Tinsley 8 yesterday? What a beauty!

 

V/R

 

Terry


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#125 Bomber Bob

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 10:31 AM

Good Luck!  We won't have clear skies until maybe Tuesday!!

 

No Tinsley 8 for me -- I'm downsizing [while waiting on a FedEx delivery today].  I was more tempted by the Tinsley 3" refractor that popped up on CN Classifieds...


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