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Restoring twin Shrine Manon 60mm telescopes

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#251 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 04:31 PM

:lol:

 

Terra, I see it's time for your yearly Manon/Mayflower rant in this thread.

 

The truth is, most telescopes have some design quirks or flaws.  This one isn't so bad compared to some.  I have a half dozen of these, all with some degree of slop in the slow-motions, but it's a very rare mount that is slop-free regardless of maker.  The only way to eliminate it is to pre-load the system, which adds expense.  Just about all of my Japanese export scopes have weak parts or slop, somwhere.  Even the more expensive ones aren't immune to slop or weak parts. 

 

I've broken a plastic wing off of a Unitron screw, had to repair it.  A metal wing also came off a Unitron screw and I had to re-solder it.   I'll be more gentle with those from now on.  And take the equatorial mount on the Swift 831, a telescope held in very high regard and a cut about the average Japanese export scope.  That mount cannot be dynamically balanced with the RA slow-motion cable attached.  I'm sure that's the reason slow-motions were not included on the 60mm Swift.

 

Even with the slop, I like the Manon mount.  The scope is small enough that it's not going to be a problem 99% of the time.  Once an object is acquired and centered, all the tracking motions are in the same direction so the slop isn't encountered until moved to a new object.  Pretty much the same as most of these little scopes.  And I've only seen one with a snapped DEC gear clamp, on the old HOC Frank traded.  

 

A small useless finder is also par for these small scopes.  I'd put the finder a cut above the finders on my little Microntas, and about half of the 60mm telescopes I own.  I try to keep it in perspective.  The tiny finders are perfectly adequate for the lunar and planetary targets these scopes were primarily intended for.  I'm not going to condemn their Japanese designers for it.  

 

One of the beat-up Manons I bought to restore cannot be restored to factory specs because the tube had been shortened by a prior owner, and the original tripod legs were replaced with a different style.  I've already restored the mount head on that one and am keeping it as a multi-purpose mount for any number of 60mm OTAs.  Despite it's shortcomings, it's a good mount, as such things go.  Mine don't shake at high power and I'm not planning on over-tightening any clamps.  Bet they outlast me.


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#252 Terra Nova

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 04:41 PM

Not a rant Chuck! I love my little Mayflower #814. It was my first telescope and it will probably be my last. It is just a reality check. They are wonderful little telescopes. Like many others, they are not perfect. Their strong suit IMO is the beautiful objective and the strong, 'built-like-a-tank' OTA with a very thick tube, a well machined cell, thread-on cell and thread-on focuser, and a very serviceable focuser at that. Because of these extremely positive attributes in their design, these scopes are virtually impossible to knock out of collimation, and almost as impossible to dent or ding. Mine has survived fifty years, been all over, and is still in perfect collimation, still produces a perfect star test. The weak links are the mount and finder. And just like most all of the 60mm class alt-az scopes of their times, these are weak links throughout the peer-group. With these, the mounts are a bit better than most, but they are still far from perfect. With a better mount and finder, you would be hard pressed to find a much more capable scope. That does not sound like a rant to me. I have an un-ending love affair with mine, but like all love affairs, once the bloom is off the rose, so to speak, reality sets in. There aren't to many things, or people, without faults. I haven't found one, and I certainly am not one. :flowerred:

 

Again tho! As I have said repeatedly, I have used mine for 50 years, pretty much exclusively for 30! That is a pretty darned thorough road test. I do not believe that the mounts are built to hold up to that kind of use. Mine wasn't and I do not believe it is unique or poorly made, or a lemon. They wear out. Yes, one of yours may outlast you. But how long and how much have you really used it. The way the gearing is set up and the materials used is not something to last forever. But then again, few things are.


Edited by terraclarke, 21 February 2016 - 04:48 PM.

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#253 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 08:40 PM

Are you saying that if a restored mount for your 814 appeared on your porch one day, you wouldn't use it?   


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#254 Bomber Bob

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:01 PM

I would!

 

Bet my Space Scope would look good on it.


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#255 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:23 PM

It's a fantastic platform for the Tasco 60mm RFT, and I plan on using it for the Manon 2-inch focuser conversion (ready later this spring).  A little bird tells me there might be another one or two available sometime in coming months...

 

027.jpg


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#256 Terra Nova

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 11:07 AM

Are you saying that if a restored mount for your 814 appeared on your porch one day, you wouldn't use it?   

 

I definitely did not say that! :flowerred: I do love my present arrangement however. I do think that as a presentation, your little cut down 60mm Tasco on that mount is positively four aces! :love:

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Edited by terraclarke, 22 February 2016 - 11:11 AM.

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#257 starman876

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 01:22 PM

I love those porta mounts


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#258 Bomber Bob

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 04:25 PM

Chuck, I agree with Terra that your Tasco RFT looks picture perfect on that yoke mount.  Speaking of those mounts, my first astro scope was a Sears 60x700 on a yoke with the slo-mo rod.  I'm not so sure it was a Towa.  My parents bought it in Fall 1969.  It's possible that Mom got it at the Sears Outlet in Marietta, so it may have sat there for years.  I don't recall the mount being flimsy, though the tripod had to be gorilla tightened.  No label pictures, and I didn't know about maker's marks back then.


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#259 Chuck Hards

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 07:59 AM

Here's a couple of shots of a Manon OTA on an EQ-2 equatorial mount.  This is a knockout combination, especially if I stick one of my tracking motors on there.

 

 

006.jpg  007.jpg

 


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#260 Terra Nova

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 10:15 AM

I had mine on a small GEM for a while.

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#261 starman876

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 10:30 AM

I gave all the ones I had away ;)


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#262 FC-100N

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 03:17 AM

LOVELY!

 

Andy S.

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#263 astronomy-shoppe.com

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 11:15 PM

Beautiful Job! congrats, I used a toaster oven on the crinkle paint for the small parts, worked better than the heat gun

Tony C



#264 Chuck Hards

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 11:30 PM

Thanks, Tony.

 

All the wrinkle painted parts got a post-cure in the oven at 250 degrees for up to four hours.  The heat gun just gave the process a little encouragement when an area was slow to wrinkle. 



#265 mattyfatz

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 09:22 PM

Chuck, 

Thanks for the great explanations, details, and photos, documenting this restoration process. I will refer to it often as I work on my 3" Edmund F15. 

Those Manon Alt-Az mounts are pretty sweet. I'll have to keep my eyes open for one.


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#266 Garyth64

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 03:27 PM

Chuck,

 

I have enjoyed reading thru this post on your restorations.  You did a fantastic job on the restorations!  This post offers a lot of information to existing owners and future owners of these scopes.  I got hooked.

 

I have just become a owner of a Manon Shrine APL, 60mm x 700mm.  It is grey/white, has a threaded focuser, and the finder attaches to the tube.

 

 . . . that's about all I know at this time, as I haven't touched it yet.  I know it's not perfect.


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#267 Den25

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 07:53 PM

But the Manon ain't as pretty as the silver and blue Bushnell!   ;)    :slap: 

 

And thanks to all the photo's that Chuck posted in this thread of the case restoration, mine will stay pretty for years to come!   :)

Case%201_zpsv6kbxh0h.jpg

Love the color! <3


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#268 Chuck Hards

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 08:02 PM

Chuck,

 

I have enjoyed reading thru this post on your restorations.  You did a fantastic job on the restorations!  This post offers a lot of information to existing owners and future owners of these scopes.  I got hooked.

 

I have just become a owner of a Manon Shrine APL, 60mm x 700mm.  It is grey/white, has a threaded focuser, and the finder attaches to the tube.

 

 . . . that's about all I know at this time, as I haven't touched it yet.  I know it's not perfect.

 

Outstanding, Gary! 

 

You have only the second known APL example with a threaded focuser that's been posted on CN.  I'm guessing that when Manon changed makers, from HOC to APL, only the first APL run had the threaded focuser before they started to examine cost-cutting options.  I'm still working on my threaded-focuser restoration, I intend it to be even better than the "Twins" I restored in this thread, if at all possible.  One thing I do now is polish the tube paint, to a mirror finish, something I didn't do on the Twins.  Summer doesn't see a lot of work done on the telescope workbench, unfortunately, but I hope to get back to it in earnest this fall, when my day job just might slow-down a bit. 

 

Post pics of your Manon, when you can.

 

 

 

But the Manon ain't as pretty as the silver and blue Bushnell!   ;)    :slap: 

 

And thanks to all the photo's that Chuck posted in this thread of the case restoration, mine will stay pretty for years to come!   :)

Case%201_zpsv6kbxh0h.jpg

Love the color! <3

 

 

That's a terrific scope!  I love the blue Bushnell trim, although the hammered-silver and black APL Manons are pretty sharp too.  I have the Mayflower clone and it's every bit as good as the Manon.  Terra has the Mayflower version as well.  I'm almost convinced that the objectives all share the same source.  You simply can't find a better 60mm x 700mm doublet.  It's just about the perfect quick set-up scope, a major contender in the Grab-n-Go category, and wonderful optics as icing on the cake.

 

I was eyeing my 2-inch focuser Manon conversion today.  I need to finish that for autumn use.  You'll all be so jealous.   :lol:


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#269 DreamWeaver

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 08:48 PM

Jealous of anything you do Chuck?  Never!   ;)


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#270 Chuck Hards

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:39 PM

Anything I build can be done by anyone else, and probably better.  As long as they don't have a problem with throwing money away, anybody can restore & modify these old scopes.  :bangbang:


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#271 Garyth64

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 06:35 PM

Update on my Shrine Manon, "It's in the mail".

 

I talked to the seller a bit.  He said, "I only know that it came from the son of the original owner who told him that he bought it new in late 67 or early 68 in Japan as he was coming home from Nam."


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#272 mattyfatz

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 12:23 AM

Update on my Shrine Manon, "It's in the mail".

 

I talked to the seller a bit.  He said, "I only know that it came from the son of the original owner who told him that he bought it new in late 67 or early 68 in Japan as he was coming home from Nam."

Can't wait to see it!



#273 Garyth64

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 08:36 PM

My little Shrine Manon arrived today.  I had time to put it together, but not take a look thru it yet.  (cloudy outside)

 

I made a mistake, I thought, from the pictures I had seen, that it was a threaded focuser, because  I didn't see any attachment screws.  Well, it is not the threaded type.  The focuser is held on by a screw at the bottom, and then by the screws that hold the finder in place.

 

So far, I'm impressed with this little scope.  It's in very good shape.

 

I will get some pics up soon. 


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#274 Terra Nova

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 10:19 AM

I'm assuming that I am still the only one then with an APL model 814 with a thread-on focuser? (Mine (1965) is branded Mayflower rather than Manon.)


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#275 Garyth64

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 10:47 AM

I'm assuming that I am still the only one then with an APL model 814 with a thread-on focuser? (Mine (1965) is branded Mayflower rather than Manon.)

Yes, so far, you have the only one.

 

Here's a pic:

 

focuser.jpg

 

Here's the other end:

 

lens.jpg

 

The controls and focuser are just too tight.  I probably give it a lube job.


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