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Restoring twin Shrine Manon 60mm telescopes

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#51 terraclarke

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 05:34 PM

Yes Chuck, as Jon says, your restorative work is brilliant as are those blue skies. I am jealous. Your location reminds me of where I grew up with views of the beautiful snow covered San Bernardino and San Gabriel Mountains in the distance. Stunning! And those mountains provide the perfect backdrop for your scopes!

#52 gelkin

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 05:35 PM

Beautiful work as always Chuck.  :waytogo: I used rubber stoppers from Lowes hardware drawers for the bottoms of tripods. Just drill a 1/4" hole in the wide end.

 

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#53 Rich (RLTYS)

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 05:50 PM

All I can cay Chuck is your doing great work.  :waytogo:

 

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#54 Chuck Hards

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 06:50 PM

Thanks Rich, and everyone.  The project is in the home stretch.  I'm hoping to get #2 completed over the weekend, next week's work schedule is oppressive.

 

Gerald, I used the rubber stoppers too, but since these tripod legs were tapered to a square section, I shaped the stoppers square to match.  Easy hand job on the disk sander.

 

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And speaking of the mountains, here is a cropped enlargement of an afocal cellphone shot that I took through the Shrine Manon of one of those mountains seen in the background.  I just hand-held the phone up to the Galoc 16.3mm eyepiece, and I didn't have my glasses on when I focused.  Those trees are about ten or eleven miles away.  With a little higher power, I can see mountain goats, deer, and the occassional moose on those mountains, from my front yard.  When I was young, I walked that very slope.  About 4,500 feet off the valley floor, or nearly 9,000 feet above sea level.

 

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#55 Marc-Andre

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 07:30 PM

Yes, style A, not B and it is an APL.

 

Just tell your wife they are twins and it wouldn't be fair to split them up.

I would go gently with this, since a reluctance to split them up ... could lead to a new home for both.

 

You have done a beautiful job restoring these with great attention to detail.  I'm encouraged to pull something out of storage and attempt the same ... some day.



#56 terraclarke

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 08:33 PM

Chuck, did you get the porro prism attachment with the Manons? My Mayflower came with the nicest one I have seen. Like many others of the day its a 36.4mm job but its bigger and thicker than most with a nice binocular-like 'leatherette' covering. I used to love to put it on my scope and use it to peer at the mountains that ringed the valley where we lived. Your picture reminded me of the views I would get then the high mountans were snowcoveed in winter. I used to love to scan along the ridge lines, looking at the trees, microwave relay stations, cabins, etc. from miles away.


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#57 Chuck Hards

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 09:33 PM

Thanks, Marc-Andre.  Restorations are mostly just a lot of elbow grease and only a small part talent or knack.  I hope my work encourages others to try it.  Small efforts can pay larger dividends not only in cosmetics, but performance.

 

Terra, I was lucky in that both Manons came with very complete kits, missing only the moon filters- but I have extras of those to fill them out.  The porro erectors are thread-on 36.4mm with the leatherette cover, just like your Mayflower.  I have to say that I'm liking the stock 20mm Ramsden eyepiece, even though the field is only about 30-35 degrees.  It is extremely sharp.  Note in the photo that one of the sun filters is still stapled in it's factory wax paper.  I know it's the sun filter because when I hold it up to a very bright light, nothing comes through. 

 

All of the optics in the eyepieces, star diagonals, erectors, and Barlows are undamaged.  Dirty, but undamaged.  A few missing setscrews can be replaced from my spares stock.

 

302.jpg


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#58 terraclarke

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 11:13 PM

Yes, I have that same 20mm Ramsden eyepiece. It is very sharp. And my porro prism is also marked EP-7. Your kits may actually be more complete than you think. The reason the only thing you are missing is the moon filter may well be that they never shipped with one. I did not get one with my Mayflower either. And interestingly, my manual was hand edited. There are several changes made to the manual that were done by cutting Strips of plain white paper and hand pasted them directly over the print. In other cases,mthings were lined out with a marker and ruler and also a couple of notations were changed by overtyping with a typewriter. One thing that was amended was the list of accessories to remove the moon filter.

Edited by terraclarke, 20 February 2015 - 11:19 PM.

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#59 terraclarke

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 11:27 PM

Here is a photo of the actual hand edited copy mentioning the filters. Note in the (renumbered) section 5, describing the use of the filters for observing how it had originally said "sun and moon filters" how the words "and moon" and the s at the end of the word "filters" has been blacked out.

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#60 Marc-Andre

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 07:53 AM

 

That tiny finder tube was a pain in the keyster.

 

 

I never did this, but could the finder tube be placed on a small lathe, and sanded as it rotates.  Years ago, I did turn and finish wood legs on a lathe.  Several coats of finish were applied, sanded, and burnished while the legs spun.


Edited by Chuck Hards, 06 August 2017 - 03:33 PM.


#61 starmason

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 09:19 AM

Excellent workmanship.  Looks better than new!  Can't wait for mine to arrive.  Hope it will be in good shape.  If not will do my best to do it justice like you are.  These older 60 and 80mm Japanese scopes sold by Unitron, Asahi, Manon, COC, Swift, Mayflower, ATCO, Vixen, Nikon and even Selsi and Tasco were well designed and constructed and the optics are highly corrected.  (Also that other company in Deutschland who made pretty good scopes also...uh...Zeiss Telementor or somthing like that.).  I'm even enjoying my little Meade 277 lately.  Using any of them while splitting doubles, planetary and Lunar observing is always enjoyable.  Hope you enjoy your twins for years to come. Truly a labor of love.  G


Edited by starmason, 21 February 2015 - 04:30 PM.


#62 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 03:09 PM

Terra:  Thanks for the information on the "missing" moon filter.  So my kits are probably complete, good to know.  I didn't get any manual or other documentation with either one, and will be printing out manuals from Robert Provin's site.

 

Marc-Andre:  Excellent idea.  Where were you with this suggestion a month ago?  ;)

 

Starmason:  Keeping my fingers crossed that your SM is in much better shape than mine were before I started this project.  Please post pics when it arrives!  I can help you with any restoration work if needed, just PM me.

 

 

I got the paint on the last two parts this morning, but won't finish #2 this weekend.  We are currently re-financing and I found out yesterday that the new lender wants to see three rooms finished before we can close.  That's going to take almost all my time for the next two weeks.  I'll still make slow progress and since there isn't much work to be done on the second SM, it might get done within that window.  Will post updates as they happen.



#63 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 06:58 PM

The two parts I painted this morning (In my super high-tech portable paint booth.  A cardboard box with a 16"x20" furnace filter in the back, and a shop vac drawing the paint particles into the filter) are now in the oven for a four-hour bake at 200-degrees.  It's the yoke and tube clamp.  My best effort yet with the VHT wrinkle.  The Eastwood black wrinkle is more forgiving than the VHT grey.  The grey actually requires a bit of finesse that was hard-won on my part.

 

Pics later tonight.

 

Back to the room finishing. 



#64 Adam S

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 07:43 PM

That's great work, thanks for all of the pics.  The Srine Manon is one of the coolest looking classics out there, I really like the mount design and wouldn't be surprised to see a modern variation on the market.  Quick to set up and super practical.



#65 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 08:47 PM

Thanks Adam!

 

The telescope is truly a one-hand carry, all mounted-up.  I'm amazed at how lightweight the whole setup is.  The alt-az mount and gear sector slo-motions are an order of magnitude better than the typical yoke and tangent-arm slo-mo seen on Towa and other Japanese alt-az scopes.  It's going to spoil me.

 

The optics are the sharpest I've ever seen in a 60mm, and the color correction fares as well as much higher f-ratio Japanese doublets.  Views of the moon are tack-sharp and minimal color fringing.

 

The oven is now cooling and I'll be removing the two parts shortly.  Pics when I can handle them.



#66 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 10:22 PM

The fresh-baked mount parts out of the oven.  Painted this morning, dry enough to handle ten hours later.  Recommended time to handling is 24 to 48 hours at room temperature.

All that remains is final assembly.  The OTA is done.  It will take me about two to three hours total to get it re-assembled, lubed, and adjusted.

I'll be working on it when done with my daily home remodeling.  Have to have that finished by the 9th to close before my interest rate lock expires, but I'm sure this scope will be done in just a day or three. 

After I get pics of both scopes set up together, I'll detail the wood box restorations.

 

303.jpg

 

Here is my high-tech paint booth for small parts.  A 16"x20" cardboard box, with the same size furnace filter taped in the back. 

 

304.jpg

 

The back flaps have been cut to provide a reducing volume behind the filter.  All ends and seams sealed up with masking tape.  Note the shop vac hose set into the center.

 

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A 25-year-old shop vac powers the paint booth.  Suction is sufficient to pull all paint particulates into the filter.  Fumes are expelled by the vac exhaust, however, so you can set the vac itself outside a window or doorway.  Then no fumes or paint particles at all are released into the indoor environment.

 

306.jpg


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#67 Vesper818

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 10:54 PM

Very cool setup, Chuck! And a beautiful paint job. Im thinking the box idea is great, just to contain spatter, as well.
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#68 roscoe

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 11:09 PM

I just scanned this whole thread, first time since page 1 was all there was.....  REALLY nice work, Chuck!!  

 

One idea that came to me....instead of modding 1/4" bolts to make pads for the leg clamps, with a bit of looking around, flat-head rivets can be found, they would work well.  As I'm sitting here, it came to me that the head ends of large nails would work also.

 

One of my vintage scopes has small squares of sheet metal with the corners bent down to make points that were pushed into the wood.  Less authentic Shrine, for sure, but an idea worth tossing out.


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#69 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 11:22 PM

Thanks!

 

I went with bolts because I felt that the stub with a few threads on it would help lock it in place, potted in the epoxy.  Probably an unnecessary worry since there isn't any force pushing them out.



#70 Chuck Hards

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 11:49 PM

Excellent project. Back in the day I never heard of or saw a Shrine Manon advertised. How were they marketed and sold ie mail order or dept stores? I've been told their Alt/Az mount was among the best in its time. Nice job Chuck.

Bill

 

Bill, every Shrine Manon that I've learned the provenance on, was brought to the States by someone working overseas or serving in Asia in the military.  I don't recall ever seeing them in stores in the 60s.  When I can come up for air I may look through old S&Ts for ads.



#71 terraclarke

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 09:25 AM

I was told that the APL scopes were imported from the same Japanese exported and sold under the Mayflower and Manon labels and sold in smaller chain department stores here in the states. Those branded Mayflower were sold out west and those labeled Manon were sold back east. Fedco handled the full Mayflower line of telescopes, microscopes, and binoculars in southern California. If they didn't have it in stock, they ordered it from the L.A. Distribution center and called you when it came in. Interestingly, this was handled in the optical (eyeglasses) department rather than the photo (camera) department. There was an original Manon owner that posted on here around two years ago. He had one just like yours that came from a department store I had not heard of in the east (Pennsylvania?).


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#72 Chuck Hards

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 10:14 AM

Thanks Terra.  In the 60s, The Salt Lake area where I grew up had Sears, JC Penney, and Woolworths.   And Kmart of course.  Those were the only chains that I recall.  There were three other locally-owned department stores but I don't remember ever seeing telescopes sold in any of those.  There was a nice camera store too but I don't recall seeing Manons there.  They had a Unitron on display at one time and would order something for you, but didn't keep a stock of much of anything astronomical until the late 70s.

 

Sears, Penneys, and Kmart had their own house brands and I've never seen a Woolworth branded telescope.  Located between the two coasts, it was pretty provincial here in Utah back then (and still is, in many ways).

 

If someone has the time, it would be interesting to find that old thread with the original Manon owner's comments.

 

 

I'm back on the house remodeling today but am going to try and get some time to re-assemble Scope #2.  Will post pics if I do.



#73 catboat

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 12:36 PM

Chuck, as you assemble the mount you might place a small star washer under the nuts that hold the azimuth gear assembly to the base.  I have the APL -- your type A -- version bought last summer.  I haven’t had much time with it because I’m out of the country for most of the year, but right off the bat it was clear that the azimuth worm assembly was shifting about.  

 

As I recall, there are small, square nuts underneath to hold the assembly in place.  Snugging them down may be good enough, but I suspect it will be a chronic problem without lock washers.  A star washer seems like a likely candidate.


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#74 Chuck Hards

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 01:36 PM

Good suggestion.  Mine have plated brass hex nuts but some kind of locking washer is a good idea. 

 

I've also noticed that there is a bit more slop than I'd like to see, so I may try and slot one or both of the holes to provide a bit of adjustment between the gear sector and worm.  A lock washer will definitely be needed then.

 

If it still slips over time, I may bore everything out and go to the next larger bolt size.



#75 Herr Ointment

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 09:05 PM

Man, you don't cut corners, do you?

 

Impressive!




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