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6" Tinsley Saturn Cassegrain Restore

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#26 clamchip

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:28 PM

The paint looks  metallic, do you think its original?

If you could have a paint shop or body shop do a match I wonder if it could be matched to a automobile or company and help you date the telescope.

The first sprayable metallic Lacquers appeared in the late 20's  but I thought it was Cadillac that made it popular in the mid 30's 

 

Robert


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#27 Bomber Bob

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 09:28 PM

Robert, that's a good point.  I don't know, but it doesn't look like the Tinsley refractors I've seen on CN.  Maybe I'll find out tomorrow.



#28 Terra Nova

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:27 PM

Would it not more likely have been the same blue-gray color used on their reftactors of the 1930s and 40s? Were the Newtonian reflectors of that period the same color as the refractors? I can't imagine them using different colors for different models of the same period.


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#29 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:12 AM

Would it not more likely have been the same blue-gray color used on their reftactors of the 1930s and 40s?

 

It is.  This morning I lightly sanded through the thin top coat, and the much thicker layers underneath is that familiar blue-gray.

 

Given that, I'm gonna try my hand at the repaint.  Got decent results with the Jaegers, and I've seem some Valspar colors at Lowe's that I like for the art deco theme.


Edited by Bomber Bob, 26 March 2015 - 08:14 AM.

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#30 clamchip

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 09:43 AM

I've got to match the gray too.

I did notice the gray under the tube rings is more gray.

I'll study it later today.

I'll be using spray cans, and hopefully Krylon engine enamel.

https://www.krylonin...n_engine_paints

Robert


Edited by actionhac, 26 March 2015 - 09:48 AM.


#31 Terra Nova

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 09:58 AM

"I did notice the gray under the tube rings is more gray."

 

That is the color to match. The exposed gray has likely lightened due to sun bleaching and oxidation.


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#32 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:32 AM

Brass Work:  You'd think that after 21 years in the USAF, I'd be an expert Brass Polisher...

 

Parts before and in the vinegar bath:

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Brass - BEFORE Vinegar CN1.jpg
  • Brass - IN Vinegar CN1.jpg


#33 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:40 AM

Round bucket with a handle, so I can twirl it around every so often.  The Internet stuff I read recommended a 2:1 vinegar/water mix.  Naw!  I'm using pure white vinegar.  I doubt it'll remove all of that bad stain, but it's worth a try.  That stain reminds me of some copper pipe that had iron gas pipe touching it -- not only changed the color, but it weakened the copper!

 

The OTA tube is aluminum.  It's 2mm thick (I forget what gauge that's called) -- about the same as what I used on the Jaegers RFT.  But unlike the Jaegers, it has a well-disguished seam.  I'll be extra careful working around it.  No dents!  But I guess this puts the scope in the late 40s - early 50's timeframe.

 

As usual, the things I think will be easy... The tiny brass screws holding the nameplate on didn't want to budge; and, I didn't want to scratch it.  Took 20 mins & drops of oil to get those 4 out.  Probably untouched for about 70 years.


Edited by Bomber Bob, 26 March 2015 - 11:43 AM.


#34 Geo31

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 01:29 PM

JW, go back to this thread:

 

http://www.cloudynig...#82086n=&page=2

 

Look at the draw tubes.  See what I started with, what I had after the ketchup "solution" and where I ended up after the silver polish.  I guarantee you the silver polish will work with a little elbow grease.  Follow up with Nevr Dull for a smoother shine.  My ex-navy ex-neighbor told me they ditched the Brasso for Nevr Dull (but the silver polish is needed for heavy staining first).



#35 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:37 PM

Brass Work:  After a 4 hour soak in vinegar.  Big Ugly Stain... where'd it go?

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Brass - AFTER Vinegar CN1.jpg


#36 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:49 PM

George, I bought the Goddard's (?) liquid silver polish & a can of Nevr Dull at WallyWorld this morning.  I'm gonna have to work overtime this weekend, so I wanted to give the vinegar a try.  It works pretty well, but my workshop's gonna smell like pickles for months!  I've heard some other folks criticize Brasso, too.  I intentionally left the upper stages of the focuser out of the brine.  Those parts along with the other bad spots will be hand-polished & buffed.

 

In the original (3MB) photo, I can see faint traces of the stain that don't show well in the much smaller version.

 

Y'all... the Focuser is luxurious.  Best word to describe how it gleams, how heavy it is, and how smoothly it turns.  I thought the 1940's B&L I got from Chuck for the Jaegers was impressive, but this Tinsley is in a whole other league.


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#37 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:41 PM

Good grief!  Debbie swears I have EOS (Early Onset Senility).  I meant to start this thread by thanking Bob Midiri.  So, thank you Bob!!  I wouldn't have this Saturn if not for you.  (He really didn't want to ship it; but after I convinced him I wasn't a random Internet lunatic, he agreed.)

 

I had the same I gotta have it! rush with the Saturn that I did with the 6336.  In fact, when I was paint shopping this morning, I thought about a color similar to the Sears.  Nope.  The Saturn will stand out.  Lowe's may call it "secluded garden", but I call it Mercedes Benz frost light-green (#213 / perlmuttgrün).  Like a mix between silver, white, and moss.  My Uncle Keith had an MB convertible in that color when I was a boy, and both his car & his Unitron got stamped in what's left of my memory.  I'll test the color on the big finder first, which also has an aluminum tube.  I'm not totally crazy - just yet.


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#38 clamchip

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 04:46 PM

If I remember right I think were supposed to "neutralize" the acid (vinegar) with a water with baking soda solution.

 

Robert



#39 bob midiri

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 05:07 PM

Jeff its really coming out soooo nice!!!


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#40 clamchip

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 05:48 PM

It turns out my focuser seems to be the best example I have and I'm not very sure how true it is.

I had some Derusto D-4 Battleship Gray and you can see the Tinsley gray has a slight blue/green tint.

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  • Tinsley 054.JPG

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#41 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 06:07 PM

Here's a sample of the latex "Secluded Garden" -- the spray cap is lighter & frostier.  We'll see!

 

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  • Lowes - Valspar 85204 Secluded Garden CN1.jpg


#42 Bomber Bob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 06:15 PM

Thanks again, Bob!

 

Unless we move to a bigger place, the Saturn will be my last Classic.  I'm having to discard the sofa to make room for her and the Jaegers -- no way a 4" f15 refractor & mount will fit, too.  But, from the start I've said I only want to have as many scopes as I can reasonably use, and I've tried to be fair on the rotation.  (If the Monolux wasn't so darn easy to tote!)  With 4 complete scopes on GEMs, I'll be done.


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#43 macdonjh

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 10:46 AM

It turns out my focuser seems to be the best example I have and I'm not very sure how true it is.

I had some Derusto D-4 Battleship Gray and you can see the Tinsley gray has a slight blue/green tint.

If you've got spray equipment, what about taking a part with original Tinsley paint to Sherwin Williams or Home Depot or... and asking them to match the paint color?  You could use some rubbing compound to polish a section of original paint to remove any oxidized layer and reveal the "really" original color.  Sherwin Williams could supply you with a good paint for coating a metallic surface.

 

Of course, if you don't have spray equipment, then this plan isn't practical.



#44 Terra Nova

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:08 AM

Thanks again, Bob!
 
Unless we move to a bigger place, the Saturn will be my last Classic.  I'm having to discard the sofa to make room for her and the Jaegers -- no way a 4" f15 refractor & mount will fit, too.  But, from the start I've said I only want to have as many scopes as I can reasonably use, and I've tried to be fair on the rotation.  (If the Monolux wasn't so darn easy to tote!)  With 4 complete scopes on GEMs, I'll be done.


JW, did you get rid of your Monolux #4380? I'll never get rid of mine. I love that scope. It's just so darned usable. Great for solar white light and h-alpha.
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#45 Geo31

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:51 AM

You're going to want to use and enamel finish, so rather than go to Sherwin-Williams, you may want to go to an auto paint store.  A good one will have touch-up kits that include a aerosol section and a glass jar for the paint.  Years ago my BiL used this sort of thing to touch up his car and I've seen theses off and on through the years.  Anyway, an auto paint place should be able to analyze and match the color and provide you with a pint of paint and a touch-up kit.  Other than adding the paint to the glass jar, it works like any other aerosol paint. 



#46 macdonjh

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:57 AM

I agree that auto paint is a good alternative.  Lots of auto paint is acrylic or polyurethane now, though, so you'd have to be careful while talking with the guy behind the counter to be sure you purchased an enamel paint if that's what you want.  Call around, too, Sherwin-Williams makes auto paint, but not all of their outlets carry it or mix it.  The SW store one mile from my house does not, but the SW store near work does.



#47 Geo31

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:12 PM

Sorry I used enamel as a generic term.  I realize that technically it gets used incorrectly a lot (like lacquer used to as well - actually still does).



#48 Geo31

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:14 PM

This is the type of sprayer I've seen in the past:

 

http://www.jamestown...CFQaQaQod0oEANw

 

Here's an alternative:

 

http://www.eastwood....CFQgyaQodAbMAmA



#49 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:42 PM

Terra, my dog damaged my 4380.  I just bought a Mayflower 815 to replace it.  But if the 815's SYW lens isn't as good as the 4380's Hiyoshi, then I'll swap objectives.  They're pretty much identical in appearance.  The 815 has the original RA drive, too.


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#50 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:44 PM

We got to Charleston at 0830ET - just missed the birth of our grandson - we're tired, but it's a good tired!


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