1254 replies to this topic

[hippieua]

This project looks really interesting. Great work on the design! What layout software was used for the PCB?

EagleCad

[hippieua]

What's your cost at for the kits? Or are we locally sourcing the sensors?

There is no actually kits. But Steve is looking for 10 people to order PCBs and components to get lower prices. CCD, case and other stuff I think won't be included. It's up to you.

Edited by hippieua, 22 April 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[Raginar]

Cool. Thanks!

[steveastrouk]

We are now at nine people interested in kits, interest has been very quick to build up. Partner number 10 should be arriving shortly.

I am not supplying these kits of components with any warranty at ALL. We will all build cameras and debug them ourselves !

 

There is a vague chance I might be able to personally offer a nice case for them - as free DXF files, and finished hardware,  but I don't have an idea of costs yet. HippieUA is on vacation, but was thinking of designing a new board, with the sensor moved off centre, so the camera could incorporate an integrated filter wheel. The render below shows the camera with the putative new board. The OD is about 120mm, the depth, about 50mm. The filters are 31mm Astronomik discs. The fitting to the camera shown is 2"

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by steveastrouk, 22 April 2015 - 09:28 AM.

[Raginar]

It's a color camera... Are you thinking about stripping the Bayer matrix?

[orlyandico]

I think the idea is to be able to drive an KAF8300 mono, if they become cheaply available.

 

My (imperfect) understanding of this design - based on my cursory reading - is that the CCD clocking signals are being bit-banged, so very CPU-intensive, but completely generic so you can drive any CCD by updating the driver.

[steveastrouk]

It's a color camera... Are you thinking about stripping the Bayer matrix?

 

If I can get more D70's to take to bits.....

[steveastrouk]

I think the idea is to be able to drive an KAF8300 mono, if they become cheaply available.

 

My (imperfect) understanding of this design - based on my cursory reading - is that the CCD clocking signals are being bit-banged, so very CPU-intensive, but completely generic so you can drive any CCD by updating the driver.

 

HippieUA, by PM, has told me he is looking at attaching the board to a ST DIscovery ARM board, so the CPU intensive goes away.

[steveastrouk]

WE GOT 10 PEOPLE.
(now, do I wait a couple more weeks ???)

[wasyoungonce]

WE GOT 10 PEOPLE.
(now, do I wait a couple more weeks ???)

Yep just wait a few weeks for other to come onboard.  This will allow you to maximise buying power (aka buy in lots) and minimise costs.  I found when doing projects there are always late comers.   I like the idea of the integrated wheel and disc case, I'd be in for that as well.  I must admit that when I saw the case, I was thinking of a different PCB layout myself (I use Eagle PCB CAD as well), mainly for a sealed case maybe screw in desiccant, but changing layouts can really muck up ground planes etc  aka noise.   Many thanks for the fine work!

 

Brendan

Edited by wasyoungonce, 22 April 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[Raginar]

Have we looked at dessicant or how we're going to heat the window to ensure it doesn't dew up?

Steve, we should try the mono DSLR.. I was looking on eBay at D70s.. It'd be worth wrecking a few to get the technique down.

Also, what are you thinking that case of yours is going to cost? It's slick!

Chris

[mdavister]

It may be economical to place an order for several PCB's.  The stuff I build, I find that it is pretty much a fixed lot cost for the PCB house to run a panel, so the cost differential between 25 and 100 PCB's isn't really all that much.  If the interest is really strong, I may be able to help in supplying populated PCBA's that would need final testing and hopefully not much debugging.

[steveastrouk]

Does anyone know what will shift the Bayer matrix without scrubbing it off ? The only really practical, repeatable method would be to build a special micro-polishing machine that could be programmed to sweep off an area on a chip. Applying polishing compound to working silicon makes my skin crawl....Would DMSO shift the matrix ?

 

Steve

[steveastrouk]

  I like the idea of the integrated wheel and disc case, I'd be in for that as well.  I must admit that when I saw the case, I was thinking of a different PCB layout myself (I use Eagle PCB CAD as well), mainly for a sealed case maybe screw in desiccant, but changing layouts can really muck up ground planes etc  aka noise.   Many thanks for the fine work!

 

 

 

I was at the SPIE exhibition in Baltimore yesterday, taking a keen interest in hermetic sealed connectors - we could make a really tight case with them, and then a screwed in dessicant unit would be eminently doable.

[ccs_hello]

There is no way, since microlenses are on top of the color filter layer.

There was a discussion in a forum that UV light in long period od time with bleach the color dye in the filter.

QHY actually tried it.  The high wattage lamps actually cooked the sensor well.  It is very well done .

 

May be the strategy is not too intense and do it in few years.  That's not commercially feasible.

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello

[wasyoungonce]

 

 I was at the SPIE exhibition in Baltimore yesterday, taking a keen interest in hermetic sealed connectors - we could make a really tight case with them, and then a screwed in dessicant unit would be eminently doable.

 

worked on F111 hermetically sealed instruments.  GAWD they were a pain.  I've seen leaks out sealed plugs plugs!  Rare, yes, but I suppose technology has improved greatly since the 80's/90's.

 

Brendan

[orlyandico]

It might be possible to have the case CNC'ed.

 

I use eMachineShop.  Since you guys have the Eagle layout, it would not be too hard to transfer that to eMachineShop.  The key is to make the design simple so it takes less CNC time, and thus less money.

 

I figure in quantities of 20, the nice case could probably be done for a couple hundred USD (could be less). I think that's a reasonable price...

 

Definitely screw-in desiccant is something I want. I have had enough trouble dis-assembling my ST8300M just to replace the desiccant.

 

Frosting of the front glass (as in old ST8300M and QHY8 cameras) and frosting of the sensor cover slip, are two different things.  Frosting of the front glass is because of moisture in the exterior air, trapped inside the scope (or focal reducer/flattener).  This cannot be eliminated by desiccant so heating of the front glass is mandatory.

 

Frosting of the cover slip is due to trapped air inside the case.  This is what we need desiccant to deal with.

[hippieua]

I think the idea is to be able to drive an KAF8300 mono, if they become cheaply available.

 

The idea was to build cheap dev board to learn how to drive CCD. And now after solving lots of issues it will be much easier and safer to experiment with expensive sensors. FTF3021M looks very good for example. (Price FTF3021M/EG = EURO 1750,- per piece.)

 

 

My (imperfect) understanding of this design - based on my cursory reading - is that the CCD clocking signals are being bit-banged, so very CPU-intensive, but completely generic so you can drive any CCD by updating the driver.

 

Not as fast and easy as you said, but in general - you're right.

[steveastrouk]

It might be possible to have the case CNC'ed.

 

I use eMachineShop.  Since you guys have the Eagle layout, it would not be too hard to transfer that to eMachineShop.  The key is to make the design simple so it takes less CNC time, and thus less money.

I have a CNC mill and lathe at my disposal, to make a prototype. eMachineShop's software is a royal pain, when you use the likes of Solidworks and Geomagic - the so-called import function is a real awful piece of work.

Steve

[orlyandico]

Hmm.. I was already pretty overjoyed by eMachineshop's software. But then I don't have access to Solidworks etc. which are pretty expensive. Not to mention a steep learning curve for those of us who aren't CNC professionals..

[steveastrouk]

Hmm.. I was already pretty overjoyed by eMachineshop's software. But then I don't have access to Solidworks etc. which are pretty expensive. Not to mention a steep learning curve for those of us who aren't CNC professionals..

 

 

Take a look at OnShape. The learning curve really isn't steep at all. The basic philosophy is to take a sketch of a section, then extrude it, use it to cut something, rotate it etc.

 

The camera mockup took me less than an hour to throw together.

[glend]

I could be interested in a kit if you'll ship to Australia, however there is still no ball park cost mentioned in this thread unless I have missed it. What will it cost?

[steveastrouk]

I could be interested in a kit if you'll ship to Australia, however there is still no ball park cost mentioned in this thread unless I have missed it. What will it cost?

 

Yes, I'll ship it anywhere. I think another guy in the buy-in is from Oz too.

Right now 50-60 USD inc PCB, plus shipping, unless I've really screwed up....

[mdavister]

 

I could be interested in a kit if you'll ship to Australia, however there is still no ball park cost mentioned in this thread unless I have missed it. What will it cost?

 

Yes, I'll ship it anywhere. I think another guy in the buy-in is from Oz too.

Right now 50-60 USD inc PCB, plus shipping, unless I've really screwed up....

 

To clarify, the kit would not include the CCD sensor, you would still have to salvage one, or procure one yourself.

[steveastrouk]

To clarify, the kit would not include the CCD sensor, you would still have to salvage one, or procure one yourself.

 

 

Precisely.