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[DIY] Astro CCD 16-bit Color 6Mpx Camera

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#476 hippieua

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 06:34 PM

I am finding all these different camera designations are really confusing. Cam8S, Cam 10, Cam 84, etc.  Are we all on the same page with this project or are there multiple developments overlapping?  Who is project managing this development?  Can we get a definitive statement on where we are up to the original project, design and testing?

There are Cam8 (based on ICX453AQ sensor) and Cam10 (based on MT9M001C12STM sensor)
Cam8 have:

  • Cam81 initial project
  • Cam83 upgrade for Cam81
  • Cam8s upgrade for Cam83 + shutter
  • Cam84 that is described here upgrade for Cam8s - shutter
  • and a new one Cam85 which currently is on development and testing stage

all materials on this thread are dedicated to Cam84 and variations (rect and round boards)
but vakulenko_sergiy supports all these projects and updating and fixing drivers for all cameras.


Edited by hippieua, 11 November 2015 - 06:34 PM.

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#477 Toups

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 07:45 PM

I am finding all these different camera designations are really confusing. Cam8S, Cam 10, Cam 84, etc.  Are we all on the same page with this project or are there multiple developments overlapping?  Who is project managing this development?  Can we get a definitive statement on where we are up to the original project, design and testing? 

 

I have the same questions, but I find that this website might help answer some of the questions: http://astroccd.org/

 

Whoops, missed hippieua's post but the above is still useful.


Edited by Toups, 11 November 2015 - 07:46 PM.


#478 hippieua

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 08:04 PM

 

I am finding all these different camera designations are really confusing. Cam8S, Cam 10, Cam 84, etc.  Are we all on the same page with this project or are there multiple developments overlapping?  Who is project managing this development?  Can we get a definitive statement on where we are up to the original project, design and testing? 

 

I have the same questions, but I find that this website might help answer some of the questions: http://astroccd.org/

 

Whoops, missed hippieua's post but the above is still useful.

 

 

There will be major update to astroccd.org next week. New CMS, new design, bilingual content ...

 

btw Im looking some help with translations, to make my English more correct from the engineering side


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#479 gregj888

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Posted 18 November 2015 - 11:50 AM

hippieua,

 

How are the tests on the new board coming?  Is it ready?  If I missed the announcement, sorry... been distracted.

 

Greg



#480 Fusionhead

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:37 PM

All, what a great project. :)   It looks very much like a work in progress with no working units yet, correct?

 

What is the current total cost estimate for the parts?  I realize you pooled to get the price down but I didn't read through 20 pages of posts because it seems like a lot of that is not relevent to the current status of the project. 

 

Also, is all the information about this project captured exclusively here on this thread (with references to http://astroccd.org/)?  Or is there some other document with a FAQ, "the latest" summary and step by step process online somewhere?



#481 hippieua

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:47 PM

hippieua,

 

How are the tests on the new board coming?  Is it ready?  If I missed the announcement, sorry... been distracted.

 

Greg

 

Nope, you didnt miss anything. 

Im almost out of time latest months, coz Im trying to finish my observatory project, before snowings. 

 

Ive tested latest board a lot, well, it woks a way better than first round board. WO sensor it gives almost perfect results but when CCD is plugged, I dont like the way second DC\DC controller works on a load. So with a help of forum member, Ive made some changes:

 

1. The major one is that I managed to put sensor right in the middle of the board. It can greatly reduce the cost and complicity  of manufacturing the case.

2. The main power source was replaced from DC\DC TPS54331D to LDO LP3878-ADJ which has ultra low noise

3. LP2985 were replaced with LP3985

4. ADP3336 is back for feeding H driver

5. couple LDOs were removed 

6. Now I thinking to replace one of LP2985/LP3985 that feeds analog part of ADC with ultra low noise LDO: ADP3367(150 mV @ 200 mA, 9 µV rms)

7. As a result of complex rerouting ADC gets power almost from the input WO traveling through all around the board and crossing a lots a digital parts.

8. Board is completed on 95%. Will be ordered on next week.

 

 

 

All, what a great project. :)   It looks very much like a work in progress with no working units yet, correct?

 

What is the current total cost estimate for the parts?  I realize you pooled to get the price down but I didn't read through 20 pages of posts because it seems like a lot of that is not relevent to the current status of the project. 

 

Also, is all the information about this project captured exclusively here on this thread (with references to http://astroccd.org/)?  Or is there some other document with a FAQ, "the latest" summary and step by step process online somewhere?

 

Estimated cost ( wo sensors, board and case)  still ± the same. Around $80-$100.

There is no more detailed information about Cam84 than here. All the summaries and step by steps  are located on the first post. They are relevant for both the very first version and for the latest the do not exists yet. 


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#482 gregj888

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:06 PM

hippieua,

 

Thank you for the update.  Looks like great progress indeed.  

 

The change all make sense at this end.

 

Keep it up, you are really close, and thank you.

 

Greg



#483 Fusionhead

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:41 PM


 

Estimated cost ( wo sensors, board and case)  still ± the same. Around $80-$100.

There is no more detailed information about Cam84 than here. All the summaries and step by steps  are located on the first post. They are relevant for both the very first version and for the latest the do not exists yet. 

 

 

Excellent!  Thanks for the info.  At that price, count me in.  I used to be an Electronic Technician/Engineer.   Have built many of projects so I'm really comfortable with the solder/build part. 

 

I'll go back and read up and come up to speed. 



#484 ctcables

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 05:58 PM

I have been following this for some time now with great interest, I most defiantly want to try to do this. Thank you for all the work and time people have put in on this project. I am looking forward to seeing the continued evolution of what I expect to be a very good system.



#485 Toups

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Posted 19 November 2015 - 09:53 PM

hippieua,

 

Two quick questions:

 

Is the performance of the rectangular board, Cam84_v41 acceptable? 

 

Is the round version under development a substantial improvement over Cam84_v41?

 

Thanks again!



#486 hippieua

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 03:46 AM

hippieua,

 

Two quick questions:

 

Is the performance of the rectangular board, Cam84_v41 acceptable? 

 

Is the round version under development a substantial improvement over Cam84_v41?

 

Thanks again!

 

1. I do not quite understand what you mean by performance, but by SNR it gives 10%-15% better results than my QHY8.

2. No I was just trying to fit the camera into round PCB. The first version was failed due to my mistakes with ground loops, the second was a way better, almost like rect version. And now 3rd is coming. 



#487 Toups

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 06:39 AM

 

1. I do not quite understand what you mean by performance, but by SNR it gives 10%-15% better results than my QHY8.

2. No I was just trying to fit the camera into round PCB. The first version was failed due to my mistakes with ground loops, the second was a way better, almost like rect version. And now 3rd is coming. 

 

 

That more than answers my question.  What I meant by 1 was is whether there were any known technical issues that were to be corrected in the round board. 

 

I just wanted to confirm my understanding that the round board is really just a change in shape and not a major improvement in performance.  Of course with all of the good work and iterations on the round board, it may end up having better performance, but that is not the main goal.

 

Thanks again.



#488 kubus

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 07:07 AM

Debayering fo 60D chip seems to work. I found this:

 

http://www.centralds.net/cam/?p=6435

 

look at the end of the stroy.



#489 hippieua

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 07:08 AM

Debayering fo 60D chip seems to work. I found this:

 

http://www.centralds.net/cam/?p=6435

 

look at the end of the stroy.

 

Canon sensors are more easy for that procedure



#490 kubus

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 02:43 PM

No its a nikon d60. But they seem to have a better solution.. and keep it secret:

 

http://www.centralds.net/cam/?p=8561

 

By the way. The DMSO soultion did not work for me. I tried it for a week. Is the solution temperature important?


Edited by kubus, 20 November 2015 - 02:53 PM.


#491 glend

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:07 PM

CentralDS are charging $350 USD, + shipping, to debayer sensors. I have a Canon 450D with them at the moment for debayering. Allow six to eight weeks turnaround on the work. It will take two weeks to get to them and two weeks to get back, assuming international air mail, and while they quote two weeks for the debayering  (despite the link above saying it took four hours), I have still to hear back from them about completion of mine and it's been there two weeks already. Obviously other work they have may determine how quickly it gets done, and some maybe easier than others.  There is a better explaination on their website about the process they use.  Their work may be first class and little risk of damage but be prepared for it to take some time. They are also pretty hopeless about email communications, took me two weeks to get a quote out of them.  Payment is via Paypal on completion of the work (they advise you when payment is required), you will get a proforma invoice at time of quote acceptance.


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#492 Fusionhead

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:00 PM

OK.  All in!  I just picked up a D50 for $68 bucks. 



#493 Toups

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 10:13 PM

I have posted a tentative Bill of Materials (BOM) for the rectangular board version of Cam84_v41 at http://astronomy.toups.info

 

Any feedback would be appreciated, I am still verifying the list before I make an order.  Note it includes items not on the original BOM including a case and power supply.

 

I have posted it on my site to allow me to update it. I do not seem to have the ability to edit older posts.



#494 Toups

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 09:46 AM

 

As an electronics packaging engineer, some things that I would do to mechanically cushion the sensor, while still providing excellent cooling:

  1. Socket the sensor, depending on the pitch of the pins there could be a carrier from Mil-Max that fits the Sony.
    Mill-Max Part number: 317-93-121-41-005000, Digi-Key has them in stock for around $6.00 each
     87B.gif
  2. Use a thermal interface material, such as Bergquist gap pad.  The stuff has the consistency of a marshmallow, can be easily cut, comes in different thicknesses, and conducts heat very well.
    Mouser and Digikey both have them.  Thermal resistance is around 1 W/mK, so for a 25mm square, 0.5mm thick it would have a thermal impedance of 0.8 deg C per Watt of heat generated by the CCD.
    GP3000S30.jpg
  3. As suggested before, allow some provision to tilt the sensor and fix it in X and Y.  This becomes harder to do if you have a soft material, but it does allow for significant tolerance mismatch correction.
  4. Clamp the sensor in such a way that you are not creating a fulcrum to fracture the package.

 

 

I noticed that there appear to be a couple of cheaper options at Digi-key that require surgery. These will require cutting apart a DIP housing into 2 SIPs and trimming to length. 

 

The cheapest is Digi-Key part 1212-1068-ND (Preci-Dip part number 117-87-764-41-005101) at $3.53 for enough pins for 1 sensor. 

 

If you prefer Mill-Max Manufacturing Corp., their 42 pin DIP Digi-Key part ED22426-ND (Mill-Max part number 117-93-642-41-005000) for $6.61 has enough pins so you only need 1 DIP rather than 2 SIPs.  (Of course you need to cut the DIP apart and trim to length.)


Edited by Toups, 24 November 2015 - 09:18 PM.

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#495 N_DD

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 11:15 AM

Hi,

 

just some ideas about integrating the TEC cooling: would it be feasible to run the controller using a dedicated IC, as the MAX1978? It is a compact controller which runs on a single 5V power supply and can drive a bipolar TEC +/- 3A. Maybe an idea for a next generation camera? ;-)

 

Nico



#496 hippieua

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:58 PM

Hi,

 

just some ideas about integrating the TEC cooling: would it be feasible to run the controller using a dedicated IC, as the MAX1978? It is a compact controller which runs on a single 5V power supply and can drive a bipolar TEC +/- 3A. Maybe an idea for a next generation camera? ;-)

 

Nico

Looks like its old and deprecated, so hard to buy and costs 35$.

But we could try to find some modern models. Good idea. Thank you 



#497 Toups

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:33 AM

FWIW, while researching Peltier coolers, I ran across a link that implied that common paint strippers containing methylene chloride can be used to dissolve epoxy (or at least some types). 

 

http://www.customthe...r_analysis.html

 

In the US, this might be an easily attainable alternative to DMSO for removing the backing from the CCD?  (However, not in the EU, it has been banned there.  http://www.paintsqua...on=view&id=7328 ) Due to some recent deaths in the US involving methylene chloride, this might also be banned in the US at some point.)  I have not tried this so I don't know if it will work.



#498 kw6562

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 01:34 PM

Hi,

 

just some ideas about integrating the TEC cooling: would it be feasible to run the controller using a dedicated IC, as the MAX1978? It is a compact controller which runs on a single 5V power supply and can drive a bipolar TEC +/- 3A. Maybe an idea for a next generation camera? ;-)

 

Nico

I would suggest staying away from switching controllers for TECs in proximity to the CCD for noise reasons.  Better to use a simple analog controller.  I think most of the TEC control chips are used for telecom applications where they are trying maintain temperature of a laser.  In any case the TEC circuitry and connections should be independent of the camera electronics board(s) if possible - it's just good practice.  --Keith



#499 gregj888

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 02:18 PM

If you want the controller TEC ready, simply put a header on with either I2C access (most versatile) or an Gnd, ADC Ref, analog in and analog out.  The Analog in and out is the easiest to interface, but neither is an issue.

 

Just my 2 cents.



#500 SkinnyUK

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 05:54 PM

Hello everyone,

 

I've recently found this brilliant project online and has prompted me to join the cloudy nights community. I'm keen on getting stuck in and building one of the rectangular cameras and contributing to the testing.

 

I see that a BOM has been published, and i'm wondering if it is too late to join the list of people who are interested in obtaining a PCB? If someone could point me in the right direction of who to contact that would be tip top.

 

Being an industrial chemist i'm wondering if I might be able to also contribute to the mono conversion efforts. If there is a chemical means of stripping the CFA layer on a ccd then i'm pretty confident that I can find it. 

 

Cheers!




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