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GOTO refractor telescope

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#26 JanS

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 02:58 PM

The 3" Goto on Ebay was a Hy score. Not one of the ones pictures in your manual.
Steve

That went for $650?? :shocked:

#27 Dick

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:21 PM

I recently purchased a Goto refractor and would like to know more about it. It appears to be 75mm with 1200mm focal length. Came with several eyepieces; 6mm, 12.5mm,25mm, and 40mm. Also had a longer (12") tube (doubler?) with a t30~ah40mm eyepiece. A 6" tube with an external pivoting prism was also included. The scope came with a 28 pound Alt-Az mount. A right angle adaptor and sun filter was also in the box. The objective and all eyepieces are labeled Goto Kogaku while the finderscope is Unitron. Any info (age?)would be great. Thanks.

Posted Image

#28 refractory

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:19 PM

You sure that's an Alt/Az mount? Sure looks lie some sort of funky equatorial to me. But otherwise I've never seen anything like it.

Jess Tauber
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#29 rwiederrich

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:53 PM

You sure that's an Alt/Az mount? Sure looks lie some sort of funky equatorial to me. But otherwise I've never seen anything like it.

Jess Tauber


That's an EM. He has the polar axis pointing up, and the OTA is all backwards. I've seen one like that a while ago.
The counter balance arms are outside the center axis.
Loosen the lock knob and aim the lower half at polaris. then unlock the lock at the top, and swing the OTA back.

Notice the two axis adjustment cables/ shaft.
Cable for RA, and the shaft coming back to the EP is for DEC.

Very interesting arrangement.

Rob(of couse I could always be wrong)

Rob(course I could be wrong)

#30 JayKSC

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:58 PM

... looks to me like some modified mount... the "center" portion paint appears different than the base and some of the other workings. I can't see that as an EQ mount, though. Perhaps it's a rather clever alt-az setup to achieve reasonable scope balance since the scope doesn't seem like it can slide forward and back like the Tele Vue alt-az solution. The counterweights would form a seemingly viable balance alternative for a non-sliding tube (???).

If it's an EQ mount, why would there be counterweights and bars on two sides of the mount?

:question:

- Jay
KSC FL

#31 rwiederrich

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:23 PM

... looks to me like some modified mount... the "center" portion paint appears different than the base and some of the other workings. I can't see that as an EQ mount, though. Perhaps it's a rather clever alt-az setup to achieve reasonable scope balance since the scope doesn't seem like it can slide forward and back like the Tele Vue alt-az solution. The counterweights would form a seemingly viable balance alternative for a non-sliding tube (???).

If it's an EQ mount, why would there be counterweights and bars on two sides of the mount?

:question:

- Jay
KSC FL



If you investigate a bit closer, you will see the design intentions.

First what needs to be done, is remember the head was probably taken off the mount/pier, just as the OTA was for storage. This accounts for the cleaner looking head.

Plus the base of the head, the wierd bent looking base is designed to accomodate the counter balances that are off axis.

If the lock screw is loosened one can swing the polar axis down toward Plaris.
Next, you will notice that this new arrangement places the counterbalances very close to the head base. Hence the swooped look.

Next unlock the upper DEC locking nut and swing the OTA around so it too points at Polaris.

You will begin to see the all too familiar GEM look.

Everything on this mount is backwards, and goofy.

It just needs to be put back in shape.

If you can look at it as if the DEC axis is on the outside, instead of through the inside, you might be able to see how this thing is put together.

Rob :smirk:

#32 JayKSC

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:31 PM

Now I see it. :)

- Jay
KSC FL

#33 rwiederrich

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:39 PM

Now I see it. :)

- Jay
KSC FL


Those tricky Japanese...

If you notice even further, you may see *thump* marks on the head base. Probably when someone lowered the Polar axis to far, when they slewed the RA axis.

The design is to allow the two counter balanced to pass freely over the base.

This design eliminated the hastle of having to machine the whole of the DEC axis through the head of the RA axis.

Its an *EXO-SKELITAL* mount.... :grin:

The owner, just needs to re-adjust it to get it working again.

Rob

#34 trainsktg

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:14 PM

Rob, you're full of surprises. I never would have figured this one out, but you're right all right.

My guess is that to the right collector, this could be worth quite a bit of change due to the mount design's uniqueness.

Keith

#35 rwiederrich

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:33 PM

Rob, you're full of surprises. I never would have figured this one out, but you're right all right.

My guess is that to the right collector, this could be worth quite a bit of change due to the mount design's uniqueness.

Keith


Well after missing you leave the other day, I had to redeem myself somehow..... :jump:

Actually, I'de like to see the poster reconfigure the head to my suggestions, and then repost another picture, so we can all see what this wonderful design actually looks like.

There should be a guage on the DEC side to allow you to align it with the RA axis at a right angle.

I'm very green over this find, and I bet the new owner is just loving the attention, and some first hand tech support.. :grin:

Remember over in the refractor forum the 9"f/18 scope Pons made. Remember the 6" GOTO in the picture?

Great scope, I mean real great.

Rob ;)

#36 refractory

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 08:58 PM

Boy, GOTO sure made some nice looking scopes in those bygone days- the company lasted much longer than Pooh-Bah and Peep-Bo Kogaku (which are oh-no-mah, though don't mind me...)! As for Rob, just try to remember that "J" is happy, oh so happy... See how the Fates their gifts allot.

G&S Tauber

#37 trainsktg

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:05 PM

the company lasted much longer than...


Yup, and still a-kickin'.

Keith

#38 Jae

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:26 PM

fascinating ! You guys are pretty sharp.....

Jae

#39 rwiederrich

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:57 PM

Boy, GOTO sure made some nice looking scopes in those bygone days- the company lasted much longer than Pooh-Bah and Peep-Bo Kogaku (which are oh-no-mah, though don't mind me...)! As for Rob, just try to remember that "J" is happy, oh so happy... See how the Fates their gifts allot.

G&S Tauber


Who ever *J* is. Is he the owner of the GOTO?

AND MY OH MY I passed Pooh-Bah goodby.
Welcome.....the next level. :smirk: Does that mean I get the rest of the day off :question:

Rob(Long live GOTO)

#40 rwiederrich

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:00 PM

the company lasted much longer than...


Yup, and still a-kickin'.

Keith


Recognizing that I'm surely not the sharpest tool in the shed, I have no idea what you guys are meaning by all this.. :question:

Rob :confused:

#41 rwiederrich

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:04 PM

fascinating ! You guys are pretty sharp.....

Jae



Well that's to be seen. I can, however, admit to a slight limp, and I spit when I talk... :smirk:

Rob ;)

#42 Dick

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:07 PM

Thanks for all the information about this mount. After reading the info from everyone, I had to check the hardware to see what does what. The Z axis appears to only point straight up with minimal adjustment. A lock on the z axis allows a pivot arm to move only about 5 degrees between two adjustable screws. Looks like a way to fine adjust the z axis to point straight up.

A
The locks on the weight arms performs two functions. One lock allows the OTA to pivot with the weights. The other lock allows the OTA / weight arms to adjust at a different angle. I still think the mount is a strange Alt-Az design since it appears to move like one. I will study it some more. Thanks for everyones help with this. Posted Image

#43 trainsktg

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:07 PM

Rob,

GOTO is still in business, but like Zeiss and Unitron, they've moved on from the amateur astronomy field. Unitron now makes among other things microscopes. GOTO now makes those wonderful planetarium projectors that are shown in their ads in S&T every month. I'm not sure about the business status of Nippon Kogaku (which is whom I believe 'Peep-Bo Kogaku' refers to).

Keith (You'll have to help me Jess, I can't figure out what company 'Pooh-Bah' would be :shrug: )

#44 twhite

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 12:21 AM

Rob,

GOTO is still in business, but like Zeiss and Unitron, they've moved on from the amateur astronomy field. Unitron now makes among other things microscopes. GOTO now makes those wonderful planetarium projectors that are shown in their ads in S&T every month. I'm not sure about the business status of Nippon Kogaku (which is whom I believe 'Peep-Bo Kogaku' refers to).


Keith,

Unless I'm *sadly* mistaken, you know quite well what happened to Nippon Kogaku. They're more popularly known as Nikon now.

http://www.mitsubish...on/history.html has a nice summary.

And, by the way - Nippon Kogaku Kabushiki Kaisha = Japan Optical Engineering Company... sound familiar?

(You'll have to help me Jess, I can't figure out what company 'Pooh-Bah' would be :shrug: )


Sorry, I can't help on this one... :question:

#45 rwiederrich

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 12:35 AM

Thanks for all the information about this mount. After reading the info from everyone, I had to check the hardware to see what does what. The Z axis appears to only point straight up with minimal adjustment. A lock on the z axis allows a pivot arm to move only about 5 degrees between two adjustable screws. Looks like a way to fine adjust the z axis to point straight up.

A
The locks on the weight arms performs two functions. One lock allows the OTA to pivot with the weights. The other lock allows the OTA / weight arms to adjust at a different angle. I still think the mount is a strange Alt-Az design since it appears to move like one. I will study it some more. Thanks for everyones help with this. Posted Image


Dick,

So let me get you straight.
When you loosen the locking lever on the side of the base that forms the fork that holds the main body of the head, you're telling me that this does not allow the head to lay down across the direction of the *scooped* out base?

If the suggestion you are making is true then this is a wasted design, and the issue of verticle correctness can easily be attained through the legs, not some elaborate wierd fork mount that defies logic.

Plus the notion that the two seporate lock levers adjust the range of motion for both the OTA, and the counterweights suggests a DEC axis. The other lever you spoke of is the adjustment for DEC balance.
If the OTA is too heavy aft you simply adjust the weights to the rear by a simple lever turn, If too far forward the same is done in reverse.

I think further scutany is in order.

One more question, you Have to determined what the control shaft, with knob under the OTA does?

If I can assume, it provided motion for the OTA on the DEC axis, which is what the two weights are riding on.

I bet if you loosen the correct lever, one you mentioned, you can tip the OTA Backward or forward, And also control that after it is locked in by the shaft control.

The cable is the Azymuth control if it is an alta-azymuth.
But I contend that it is the RA control. Know why?
Cause it is a cable, and the cable allows for movement, and that movement is provided, because you are, at times, behind the control, when it is in equitorial mode.
You are always going to be behing the control shaft under the OTA.

One last issue you need to equate.
Notice the off set fork mount. Guess why it is off set?

Not because it is an alta-azymuth. That would simply need to be centered on the pier base. No, it is because the design needs to off set the COG for the head to tilt, and the weight of the OTA to continue to be relative to the COG of the pier.

Why on earth would some Japanese engineer design an alta-azymuth mount with such an off set fork mount. :crazy:

There is no design reason behind it. If it was plainly Vogue, then I'm an uncle of a monkey.


Look deeper Obe-Wan.... :smirk:

Rob(of course as usual, I'm probably outta my mind)

#46 Dick

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 06:40 AM

I will look at this again when I get home from work. Maybe I did not loosen the lower lock enough. Is it possible this strange mount can be used as both an equatorial or an Alt-Az mount? The reason I say this is the scope in the present position can be used as an Alt-Az. The rod directly under the OTA does cause minor up/down (Alt) motion when turned. Thanks for studing this. I will be cleaning the lenses today with Dr. Clays receipt. Hopefully I can get my first view of Jupitor this weekend.

#47 trainsktg

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 08:00 AM

Unless I'm *sadly* mistaken, you know quite well what happened to Nippon Kogaku. They're more popularly known as Nikon now.


Doh! Of course you're right. Yes , I knew that...once...and of course I obvoiusly forgot it once again.

Keith

#48 rwiederrich

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 09:54 AM

I will look at this again when I get home from work. Maybe I did not loosen the lower lock enough. Is it possible this strange mount can be used as both an equatorial or an Alt-Az mount? The reason I say this is the scope in the present position can be used as an Alt-Az. The rod directly under the OTA does cause minor up/down (Alt) motion when turned. Thanks for studing this. I will be cleaning the lenses today with Dr. Clays receipt. Hopefully I can get my first view of Jupitor this weekend.



From what I know, any GEM can be configured to *ACT* like an alta-azymuth. It is no mystery, since Alta-azymuth mounts are simply azymuth, and elevation.

But when you loosen the locking knob for the part that is aiming up (the RA axis), and you swing it down to aim at Polaris, you will see the GEM configuration.

Good luck.

Rob ;)

#49 javago

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 11:00 AM

Hi all,

That nice GOTO telescope mount is a Japanees copy of a Reinfelder & Hertel refractor mount ( German make )and made in late 1800.You can see a picture of that mount on the German website ACHROMAT.DE.It is an equatorial mount made
around 1890.

#50 rwiederrich

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 11:07 AM

Hi all,

That nice GOTO telescope mount is a Japanees copy of a Reinfelder & Hertel refractor mount ( German make )and made in late 1800.You can see a picture of that mount on the German website ACHROMAT.DE.It is an equatorial mount made
around 1890.


I knew I'v seen that design somewhere before. And I knew it was a GEM.

Can you repost the site again. What you gave earlier didn't work for me.

Rob ;)


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