Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Forum title or description suggestion

EAA
This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
139 replies to this topic

#26 Relativist

Relativist

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 8151
  • Joined: 11 Oct 2003

Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:08 PM

For all, sorry a bit OT.

 

Curtis,

 

regarding that Wikipedia article...

   quote "the number of free electrons and electron holes increases and raises its electrical conductivity"

   That is not what happens in CCD and CMOS pixel's quantum well.

   Photo-electrons trapped there (view this as static charge), when charge is finally read out,

   it is the Q=CV that is how the voltage (proportional to charges) is read. 

 

 

BTW, CCD is the abbreviation of Charge Coupled Device.

Photoconductivity does have have a role here.

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello

 

I recommend you think on it some more. While the wiki explanation isn't the best I've seen it looked correct when I linked to it.



#27 Relativist

Relativist

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 8151
  • Joined: 11 Oct 2003

Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:11 PM

Seems to me it's about the utility in this case. The intent is to guide people to the subject of discussion, yes?  The details of "nearly live" or the technical logistics of how this media is captured serves to obfuscate rather than clarify for the new user.  Consideration must be given to the broader demographic, if the intent is to attract more to the hobby.  My .02 -  

 

1. Live video astronomy

2. Streaming astronomy

 

Explain the details after you have an audience.  Just sayin'.

 

So one of the reasons I'm wondering if we can come up with a title that describes what were doing, and not focused on the equipment mainly, is because it would open up the possibility of discussions of both equipment and the unique ways we use the equipment. Possibly in two sub forums, one for equipment and one for observations.



#28 Relativist

Relativist

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 8151
  • Joined: 11 Oct 2003

Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:21 PM

Andy, I see no reason why a science based hobby forum should not have a technically accurate title, nor do I agree that it's funny that people are trying to achieve such. A large part of this hobby is educating the public. Is it really that hard for us to agree that we are using optoelectronics and not just electronics? We are converting photonic energy into electrical energy one way or another and converting the energy back into photons via our displays, so we are actually using these techniques twice...



#29 budman1961

budman1961

    Apollo

  • ****-
  • Posts: 1334
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2011

Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:38 PM

:bangbang:  :bangbang:  :bangbang:

 

How about an "Enjoyment-Based" hobby, don't assume that you are speaking for everyone.  Many of us do it for the pure joy, to share with people that are incapable of walking to the eyepiece anymore.

 

Quite frankly, the science-speak is a really big turn off.  I could really care less that the process that allows the sun to make flowers to bloom brightly, and make people happy, is called photosynthesis, it just sucks the joy out of it, even though it is technically correct.

 

Life too short, some people just like to do what we do, just because we like to do it, and that should be enough.

 

:rockon:  Andy  :rockon:



#30 TropixSky

TropixSky

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 55
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2014

Posted 09 May 2015 - 11:06 PM

Hi,

 

Just my opinion, why don´t just keep it simple and easy “Video Astronomy Forum”?

 

When I was starting in astronomy one and a half year ago, I just jump in in video astronomy in a google search and the topic was interesting, I guess if as a newbie I found something like 'Optoelectronic Assisted Astronomy' I would think it was something more advanced research grade or similar (beyond my budget), but video astronomy give me the right and plain Idea and here I´m now.

 

But I guess it depends on the purpose of the forums, to attract newbie new members into video astronomy or attract experienced knowledge members who knows exactly what they are searching for.

 

Mario


Edited by TropixSky, 09 May 2015 - 11:07 PM.


#31 budman1961

budman1961

    Apollo

  • ****-
  • Posts: 1334
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2011

Posted 09 May 2015 - 11:18 PM

Well said Mario, thank you!

 

Andy



#32 lollywater

lollywater

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 39
  • Joined: 10 Feb 2013

Posted 10 May 2015 - 06:23 AM

I agree Mario
The title needs to be simple
As a beginner EAA,OAA,EII means very little
There appears to be no clear definition of Video Astronomy.This forum has fairly specific guidelines. This forum is also probably the most influential astronomy forum (in English) on the planet.
Call it Video Astronomy and you then get to define what that is.
Paul

#33 ccs_hello

ccs_hello

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10241
  • Joined: 03 Jul 2004

Posted 10 May 2015 - 07:34 AM

Mario (post #30) and Paul (post #32),

 

As many know, there were numerous discussions on the "video" aspect of that, recent ones were in June 2014 (which is less than a year)

That was about VEAA name changed to EAA.

 

IMHO there is no need to go back.  Even the classic analog video vendors are diversifying out of the it (composite video.)

For the new comers who don't know the rationale, please search the forum posts.

 

I understand the newest readers probably will most likely at first use a $25 - $1500 videocam (that's classic analog videocam derived) as its first gear.

(Sorry, some may actually start with an gen 3 IIE or double-stacked gen 2 Image Intensifier...)

However, sometimes the first love may not be just the only love.

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello



#34 Dwight J

Dwight J

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3242
  • Joined: 14 May 2009

Posted 10 May 2015 - 09:24 AM

 

 

I understand the newest readers probably will most likely at first use a $25 - $1500 videocam (that's classic analog videocam derived) as its first gear.

(Sorry, some may actually start with an gen 3 IIE or double-stacked gen 2 Image Intensifier...)

However, sometimes the first love may not be just the only love.

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello

 

 

Not just the newest readers.  Astrovideo is alive and well despite several pronouncements of it's demise.  I have no plans on using a CCD imaging camera nor a USB camera,  In fact I sold my CCD imagers when I bought my Mallincam due to disuse.  The ease of use of video still holds my interest as I still like to observe, not fuss with a computer.  The view on this forum is skewed towards imaging cameras as most astrovideo users have left for other more welcoming forums.  



#35 ccs_hello

ccs_hello

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10241
  • Joined: 03 Jul 2004

Posted 10 May 2015 - 09:32 AM

Dwight,

 

I thought I said first love, not the only love, .... :)  :)

Actually, some folks' first love may just be a mirrorless/DSLR, and they might have found other NRT instruments for viewing as well.

 

The point is an individual's opinion should not be the sole opinion and certainly should not be the dominating voice in an open/public forum.

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello



#36 TropixSky

TropixSky

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 55
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2014

Posted 10 May 2015 - 09:56 AM

Here is another idea,

I think we should start defining what the forum title want to address to:

 

1. The devices used: in which case 'Optoelectronic Assisted Astronomy' is technically correct but that include any kind of device that can capture and process light in order to be used in astronomy field.

 

2. The technique used: in this case "Near Real Time Viewing" would be ok but it refers to any device (analog, digital, etc) that can help us in the astronomy field. Some DSLR cameras are so sensitive and they allow video even if is just used for planetary viewing, nobody said it should include DSOs to be considered in this area.

 

3. What we are trying to see with those devices: To me in order a camera to be considered video-astronomy it should include the capacity to capture and show faint DSOs with much more detail than the human eye, otherwise is a planetary camera no matter if it have analog or digital output.

 

Mario



#37 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 10 May 2015 - 10:08 AM

IMHO, I tend to think the description of the forum is what may cause others to post "off topic" threads here.  On the CN list of Forums Page EAA is described as (quoted):

 

A meeting place for people that use or wish to discuss Electronically Assisted Astronomy and the equipment used. Electronically Assisted Astronomy is the use of a digital image capturing device in lieu of an eyepiece at the telescope.

 

end quote

 

Perhaps it should be changed to:

 

A meeting place for people that use, or wish to the use, a semi-live image capturing device in lieu of an eyepiece at the telescope during their observing sessions.

 

Only a suggestion but I believe the "and equipment used" tied with Electronically may be the root cause of the off topic threads.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 10 May 2015 - 10:10 AM.


#38 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3381
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006

Posted 10 May 2015 - 11:49 AM

IMHO, I tend to think the description of the forum is what may cause others to post "off topic" threads here.  On the CN list of Forums Page EAA is described as (quoted):

 

A meeting place for people that use or wish to discuss Electronically Assisted Astronomy and the equipment used. Electronically Assisted Astronomy is the use of a digital image capturing device in lieu of an eyepiece at the telescope.

 

end quote

 

Perhaps it should be changed to:

 

A meeting place for people that use, or wish to the use, a semi-live image capturing device in lieu of an eyepiece at the telescope during their observing sessions.

 

Only a suggestion but I believe the "and equipment used" tied with Electronically may be the root cause of the off topic threads.

 

David B in NM

Not everyone uses a 'Telescope'. Many use just a lens.

 

Cut it back to "A meeting place for people that use, or wish to use, a semi-live image capturing device during their observing sessions".

 

Short and to the point. And Non-Scientific sounding.

 

The very common term 'Video Astronomy' is used widely and that is what many people have told me they search for in Google. That's how they find the 'Video Astronomy Forum', and the 'Video Astronomy Website'.

It's a common term that encompasses what we mostly do. It may not be perfectly correct but it's what newbies look for. Newbies must be considered when they are searching for this section.

 

Whether the title gets changed or not, the description certainly needs fixing.



#39 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 10 May 2015 - 12:09 PM

Ken,

 

Good catch (omit telescope and it opens it to telescopes and lenses).

 

David B in NM



#40 Relativist

Relativist

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 8151
  • Joined: 11 Oct 2003

Posted 10 May 2015 - 10:27 PM

Ken,

 

Good catch (omit telescope and it opens it to telescopes and lenses).

 

David B in NM

 

Many lenses can be considered refracting telescopes, or just really small refracting telescopes. But the optics used will be specific to the goal. For example if one wants to see more of a meteor shower than one can with the human eye, one might use a 'all sky' camera which does not resemble a telescope but is still an EAA activity. The point is it's a device to do near real time astronomy with.



#41 Relativist

Relativist

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 8151
  • Joined: 11 Oct 2003

Posted 12 May 2015 - 03:10 PM

How about adding the word 'visual' in the title somehow? Then we will be back to VEAA, 'Visual Electrically Assisted Astronomy'.

#42 flyingcougar

flyingcougar

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 1234
  • Joined: 11 Apr 2008

Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:32 PM

I believe several of you were on the right track in trying to develop a couple of sentences that accurately describe the core interest/purpose of this forum. A description that someone new to the concept of visual astronomy with a camera would understand. This may help keep the off-topic questions to a minimum and you might even peak the interest of some new folks.

 

Come to a consensus on a couple of sentences and I would make the perfect guinea pig. :)

 

Cheers,



#43 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:41 PM

This is copied and pasted from Ken's suggestion.  I feel this is very simple and easy to understand. 

 

If the CN crew wants to add "in lieu of an eyepiece" it would be fine too (appeared that way before).

 

quote:

 

Cut it back to "A meeting place for people that use, or wish to use, a semi-live image capturing device during their observing sessions".

 

end quote

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 12 May 2015 - 04:42 PM.


#44 Dom543

Dom543

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1099
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2011

Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:57 PM

Shouldn't we also include a set of non-exclusive examples?

I know what we mean by a "semi-live image capturing device" but my wife wouldn't.

 

--Dom



#45 ccs_hello

ccs_hello

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10241
  • Joined: 03 Jul 2004

Posted 12 May 2015 - 08:44 PM

Let's not forget Image Intensifier tube is Real-Time, except that photons may be billion years old :).



#46 David B in NM

David B in NM

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2010

Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:06 PM

With Dom's point and CCS' point what about this:

 

1.  "A meeting place for people that use, or wish to use, a live/semi-live image capturing device during their observing sessions in lieu of an eyepiece".

 

or

 

2. "A meeting place for people that use, or wish to use, a live/semi-live image capturing device during their observing sessions rather than an eyepiece".

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 12 May 2015 - 10:08 PM.


#47 Don Rudny

Don Rudny

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
  • Joined: 21 Mar 2013

Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:46 PM

How about, "...an electronic device or camera that enhances the view directly or through a visual system, such as a remote monitor.



#48 mattyk-usa

mattyk-usa

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 963
  • Joined: 27 Jan 2015

Posted 13 May 2015 - 06:49 AM

How about, "...an electronic device or camera that enhances the view directly or through a visual system, such as a remote monitor.

I like it! Easy to understand, covers all the use cases. 



#49 cnoct

cnoct

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 733
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2010

Posted 13 May 2015 - 09:22 AM

Let's not forget Image Intensifier tube is Real-Time, except that photons may be billion years old :).

 

Speed of light real time!

 

Image Intensifiers were used way before CCD's and the like, being among the first EAA instrument to assist in speed of light real time viewing. 

 

http://www.news.wisc.edu/23491



#50 Dragon Man

Dragon Man

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3381
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2006

Posted 13 May 2015 - 10:32 AM

 

How about, "...an electronic device or camera that enhances the view directly or through a visual system, such as a remote monitor.

I like it! Easy to understand, covers all the use cases. 

 

Easy to understand?

I don't quite understand it and I'm a Video Astronomer!

So I asked my wife if she knows what this means, and she said "Is it taking photos like you used to do?".  :undecided:

 

I was under the impression that: "A meeting place for people that use a live/semi-live image capturing device during their observing sessions" explained it well, even without the "in lieu of an eyepiece".

 

​It covers 'live' (Image intensifiers, webcams and planetary cameras) and 'semi-live' (analogue, digital, DSLR, and other semi-live DSO capture devices) and simply saying 'during their observing sessions' negates the need to add 'in lieu of an eyepiece' but describes what the device is used for, and when. 'For observing'.

I think we could also leave out the piece "or wish to use". I doubt that it's needed. If they 'wish' to know, they'll come in and read about it.

If we wanted to cover all aspects we would have to add "for Broadcasting, a Public Outreach Tool", etc. But the aim is to make it simple and to the point.

 

So it edits down to:

 

"A meeting place for people that use a live/semi-live image capture device for observing"  :waytogo: 

 

:lol:  Next




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics