78 replies to this topic

[calypsob]

 

Ws2 is even better than moly http://www.bonanza.c...CFc8kgQod_lgAEw

Do you know of an available WS2 grease?

 

My understanding is that it's used as a dry coating, and is not interchangeable with molybdenum disulphide grease, although grease can be applied over a WS2 coated part.  Mixing WS2 with grease will likely prevent the WS2 from properly bonding with the metal.  I could well be wrong, but I can't find a well documented WS2 grease that's sold in the US.  Simply mixing WS2 with grease appears to be a flashy concept with no proven testing or track record.

 

You have to mix it with grease yourself, seems to be plenty of good grease choices on here though.

[astrovienna]

Here's a final report:  I used the near-expired AeroShell 33MS that I had been sent, and it looked fine.  No signs of separating in the tube.  And the best news is that the stiction is now gone.  Don't you love it when things actually work? 

 

And, to top it off, the seller sent me a new tube as well, that won't expire for 30 months.  So now I have enough grease to go into business.

[calypsob]

Here are all of the corning moly greases if any one is interested https://www.dowcorni...lit/80-3256.pdf

[Jim T]

I'm in the lube industry.  Grease manufacturers may desire to communicate the shelf life, so that if separation has occurred the user is forewarned.  Consider it a worst-case time limit.  Heat is the enemy to a grease's life.  If it has been on an indoor shelf, kept warm in winter and cool in summer, it will have a longer life.  It is not a time-bomb.  When separation starts, some oil is lost from the soap-oil mix.  Oil will 'float' to the top, so it is an easy inspection item.  A small amount of oil skim on top is a minor concern.  Many greases survive for a decade if not over-heated.

 

Most commercial greases are "E.P." (extreme pressure) and have additives (usually sulfur-phosphorus) that may damage copper (brass, bronze - often found in worm spur gears).  Moly (MoS) is one such E.P. additive.  I personally would not recommend a moly grease for telescopes, due mostly to the black residue caused by Moly.  Some E.P. additives are not active when under 150*F, so no damage to bronze or brass with them under typical telescope applications.

 

Most manufacturers offer a non-EP grease for electric motors.  This is usually a polyurea grease, which if formulated with light viscosity oil should make a decent grease for telescope worm gears.  Not sure if a #1 would be better than a #2 though.  The stiction function is needed for helical focusers, etc., so each application is a bit different. Some greases contain a polymer, or tackifier, and that helps keep grease where you put it. Folks want one-grease-for-all-applications, but reality is different. 

[The Mad One]

AMSOIL Synthetic Polymeric Truck, Chassis and Equipment Grease:

 

http://www.amsoil.co...code=GPTR1CR-EA

 

It is a synthetic red lithium based grease with great low temperature viscosity, a good High temp drop Point (500 F).  Be sure you get the NGLI #1 rated grease not the #2.  The #2 is still OK, but a bit more viscous thn #1.  You can follow the link to the product page with ALL of the technical info, ratings chart at the bottom of the page.  No sticktion or stiffening of any conciquence here on the coldest of central Indiana nights.  Used the mount in low temps of -9, no troubles, and 98 F no problems.  I have used it on every thng from a CG5/LXD75, GPD2, & Losmandy G11.  It does what it states, has a long life, after all it was made for someof the dirtier work.  I also have mixed a small portion of WS2 powder with it in the last 2 mounts I did..... works fantastic...  about a 1 part to 50 part mix of WS2 to the nglI#1 grease.  WS2 Found here:

 

http://www.lowerfric...hp?categoryID=1

 

Actually I bought the smallest portion of WS2 Powder you could get a few years ago.. The 1lbs. bag, I think it was about $30.00 a pound then....I still have likely 15.5 Oz. left after doing 3 mounts.  If anyone would like some message me I'll send you a teasponfull via snail mail in a small USPS ship it envelope in a zip lock for the price of the USPS envelope... while my supply lasts.  I dont need but a teaspoon full my self for the next several years!

Clear Skies!

Mark

[Binojunky]

Any lube should be replaced once in a while, Super Lube is good stuff, however I have lubed mounts with common auto and aviation grease with good results,TD.

[Binojunky]

Quoted:
 
"In reality, the best way to remove it is to dissolve it, and absorb it in a paper towel or rag. This is done with solvents, such as Heptane, Hexane, Perchloroethylene (dry-cleaning fluid),
Methyl Ethyl Keytone (MEK), or D’ Limonene (a citrus cleaner). These solvents are industrial fluids, should be used with caution, and may be difficult to find for the average person. In addition, they may react by dissolving more than the Super Lube®, especially if the item is plastic.
 
Less aggressive solvents that work, although not as well, are Mineral Spirits and Alcohol.
 
It has been reported that Eucalyptus Oil removed Super Lube® from human hair."

MEK is nasty stuff as are a lot of solvents, they can attack paint, plastic etc, MEK has been linked to liver damage and cancer,just wipe the old grease up with cotton rags or industrial paper towel, TD.

[The Mad One]

Mineral Spirits works great, easiest way to get rid of the old grease it to place the parts in a container large enough to hold the part(s) with enough MS to just cover them.  Wipe the heavy grease off with a rag clothe or such place it in the container with the MS in it & walk away let the MS dissolve the remaining grease.  Let them sit for a while, I usually put a cover over the container & let it sit over night.  Then take a parts cleaning brush to parts (about any regular 2 inch or so paint brush) clean them off rinse with a little clean MS & let it dry.  I've even done this with the UHDM plastic clutch plates from my Losmandy G11 with no problems at all.  If you're concerned about possible side effects of the MS use a pair of parts handling & cleaning butyl gloves you can get from about any auto parts store.  Just too simple to get too complicated about.

 

CS!

[EFT]

Mineral spirits is the strongest stuff I use and I only use that for the old black glue that use to be in the Chinese mounts.  Other than that, I don't use anything stronger than a citrus-based, biodegradable degreaser in the shop for everything I do.  Everything gets wiped off first and gears and bearings get blown out with air.  After that it's into the parts washer.  There is no reason to use anything stronger than the citrus-based degreaser in most cases and occasionally (although very rarely these days) mineral spirits.  It all goes somewhere, you, the air, the water, the soil etc., so why pollute yourself or the environment with any of that other stuff?   

[fetoma]

Ed, Deep Space Products gets the green seal!

 

 

[The Mad One]

Guess what you do with your used petroleum products, like anything else comes down to common sense, & personal responsibility!  Having been a heavy equipment maintenance tech in the late 80's as well as just paying attention to local information on disposal of such things, disposing of well used Mineral Spirits is no big deal.  I retain mine as well as bout any other such products in the old empty containers marked "used whatever" and twice a year I drop it by one of the many companies round here that recycle such things.  I work on much more than just telescope mounts though in my various hobbies, projects, & such.  BUT yea, if you're going to use such things... be responsible!  In regards to the stronger stuff especially stuff like Metyl Ethel Ketone... the average person really should not be messing with it, period...!  We have a few nick names for such things on my departments HazMat team and Methyl Ethyl "Bad Doo-Doo"  though we don't use doo-doo is one.  Toluene is another one still a heck of a lot more common than it should be, more Bad Stuff!  Most of that stuff is/are extreme carcenogens, and readily cross the transdermal barriers, then pretty much go straight to the liver & kidneys, as well as other critrical systems.

[biz]

Mineral spirits is the strongest stuff I use and I only use that for the old black glue that use to be in the Chinese mounts.  Other than that, I don't use anything stronger than a citrus-based, biodegradable degreaser in the shop for everything I do.  Everything gets wiped off first and gears and bearings get blown out with air.  After that it's into the parts washer.  There is no reason to use anything stronger than the citrus-based degreaser in most cases and occasionally (although very rarely these days) mineral spirits.  It all goes somewhere, you, the air, the water, the soil etc., so why pollute yourself or the environment with any of that other stuff?   

Hi Ed.

just thought I would share my experience in cleaning etc.

Ive been using "CRC Brakleen", spray can version, to clean out grease from bearings and also plastic gears. No damage is done to the plastic and no residue is left.  Not messy, not smelly, all in all rather good to use.

For that " black glue" I have been using Kero first, seems to work for me.

cheers

Graham.

[mirceaar]

Hello

 

As a guy that just took apart his SW/Synta (N)EQ5, regreased it and put it back together and, apparently out of inertia, tries to educate himself on mount and gears greasing, just want to ask you if anyone has tried, on a mount or something else similar to a mount, the Molykote 3451.

I came down to this option after a while spent reading some tens of pages and documents about lubrication, grease basic concepts, grease advanced concepts, base oils, thickeners, additives and so on, yadda yadda yadda...

 

Molykote 3451's base oil is fluorosilicone, that is - to my current knowledge  - friendly to most plastics (as the (N)EQ5 does have some plastic/PTFE spacers/washers), also friendly to bronze and - perhaps - other metals, and apparently it is thickened only with PTFE/teflon, according to the data sheet. I'm sure it's not the only one with these specifications, but I've found the documentation on their site to be quite sufficient to make it interesting.

 

Is it similar to the Superlube  mentioned earlier (I'm not sure which gease is mentioned here, as there are several variations, perhaps the Multipurpose one), or is it something a tad different?

 

My asking here is due to the fact that at some point in the near future I'll be trying to replace the kinda crappy radial 6007 bearing on the RA axis with a not so crappy angular 7007 bearing variant and, when I'll come to that, I'll completely change the grease I've used so far, that is black MoS2 additivated grease for the worm, worm wheels and motor gears, which, after some days of trying to educate myself, seems a bit overkill, and red PTFE 'bike' grease for the plastic/PTFE washers/spacers on which the worm wheels sit, grease which, if it has mineral oil as its base oil, might not be suited for plastics on the long term... I'll be changing the axial bearing at the end of the Dec. axis also, but that's peanuts

 

The only downside to this grease would be that it can be cleaned off with acetone or benzene and such, and not with alcohol(s).

 

Thank you.

[trevize]

What about Red and Tacky?    I have a large quantity of this from another hobby (model trains).  It works fantastic on the worm gears etc in model trains.

[jackofalltrades]

I've just read through all three pages and will say thanks for the good info here. What I've been using for some time is a red synthetic grease I get from Scopestuff. They call it Pete's Red Synthetic grease, because they get it from Peterson Engineering who does Meade mount rebuilds and tune-ups. In the last seven years I've been using it it's never separated.

 

Here's the link - http://scopestuff.com/ss_prgr.htm

And the small 1oz packets go a long way.

Edited by jackofalltrades, 28 July 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[Sepe]

probably a stupid ?, which Superlube # 

 

i found this on amazon, Super Lube 51004 Synthetic Oil with PTFE, High Viscosity, 4 oz Bottle

[EFT]

You want the stuff called "Multi-Purpose Grease".

[Chuckwagon]

probably a stupid ?, which Superlube # 

 

i found this on amazon, Super Lube 51004 Synthetic Oil with PTFE, High Viscosity, 4 oz Bottle

That part number is listed on the Super Lube site as an oil, not a grease.  You want one listed as a grease.

 

All of these are listed as a grease, under the same heading on the Super Lube site, so I assume the only differences are the weights and types of packaging.

 

Super Lube® Multi-Purpose Grease is available in the following sizes:

82340........................1 cc Packet of Grease
21006........................................6 cc Syringe
21010........................1/2 oz Tube of Grease
21014............1/2 oz Tube of Grease - BULK
21030...........................3 oz Tube of Grease
21036....................3 oz Cartridge of Grease
41150.............................400 gram Cartridge
41160......................................400 gram Can
41050...............................5 lb Pail of Grease
41030.............................30 lb Pail of Grease
41120..........................120 lb Keg of Grease
41140........................400 lb Drum of Grease

 

Amazon has the 3 oz tube, 21030, for $5.47.

 

Cheers.

[Nitpick]

After quite a bit of research on the subject, I've made the switch to AeroShell 33MS for all ring/worm lubrication.  As another poster said, Shell has renamed 33MS to AeroShell 64 to avoid confusion (33MS is quite a bit different from the original 33).

 

This is a grease that is specifically for the kind of sliding surface lubrication common in aircraft (flap tracks, jackscrews, etc.).  The worm/ring interface that we find in our mounts is very tough to lubricate properly as the worm slides against the ring gear and will tend to simply wipe off any lubrication there.  The molybdenum in the 33MS is the key here as it will attach to the worm gear face as well as the ring gears and will resist being wiped away.  It's still not perfect and I suspect that after about a year of moderate use, all of our mounts are back to metal to metal contact in the worm/ring interface even with something like 33MS in there.

 

Superlube is good lube and for those of my mounts that still have it in them, I'm leaving it there until normal maintenance causes me to re-pack the worm box at which point I'll replace with 33MS.

[mirceaar]

Hello

 

I've seen mentioned quite a lot that Lubriplate 105  is used and/or recommended for eq mounts.
Has anyone tried - on mounts or anything else - Lubriplate Aero?

I've wrote them and they say that it is PTFE and plastic friendly.

Edited by mirceaar, 28 June 2016 - 09:47 AM.

[Lola Bruce]

Think of grease as a wick saturated with oil touching a rotating part because that is what it is. As far as use by dates or expiration I call bull puckey  unless it is some exotic with an evaporative solvent. Like another member mentioned I have different tubs ( Redline CV2, Superlube, Staylube, GM, Valvoline Synthetic, Lucas white Lithium, Lubriplate Lithium, and Shell electric motor grease) in my shop. Some of these are over 25 years old and none newer than 2 years and all are good to use today. My shop is not temperature controlled and ranges from 30f to 135f and most have traveled with my race car in an enclosed trailer with temperature swings from 20f to 145f. I have discarded over the years a tub of Lubriplate Lithium, Staylube Heavy Duty Wheel Bearing Grease, and Shell Electric Motor Grease due to drying out but those tubs were more than 40 years old.

Worm gear designs are difficult but not exotic to lubricate if not by oil bath. Our astronomy gear rarely can be lubricated by an oil bath. A worm and ring gear works in a sliding surface motion as do plain bearings, so they are by design pushing the grease out of the load bearing area leaving most of it standing at the margins of the gear faces where it acts as a wick. Remember grease is by design a matrix (for holding, releasing, and reabsorbing ) oil, and the oil it's self (the lubricant). Eventually the sliding motion will push the matrix far enough away so it can not reabsorb the oil by capillary action (wicking) resulting in mechanical separation and the slow loss of the lubricant. Time for a re lube.

The Aeroshell33ms and Redline CV2 products on paper are designed to perform the needed task. I use the Redline and will be ordering the Aeroshell after reading this thread.

Bruce

[bobzeq25]

Hello

 

I've seen mentioned quite a lot that Lubriplate 105  is used and/or recommended for eq mounts.
Has anyone tried - on mounts or anything else - Lubriplate Aero?

I've wrote them and they say that it is PTFE and plastic friendly.

I don't see any reason to think this is particularly well suited to wiping surfaces with high contact pressure.  Most grease will work, some will work better.   The things the manufacturer recommends using this on (ie garage door openers) typically have large manufacturing tolerances.  Not precision devices or bearings.  I can't see this as being superior to the standard choices:  Superlube, Aeroshell 64, Lubriplate 105, or Redline CV2.  I don't know that it's worse, but why bother with something unproven?

Edited by bobzeq25, 28 June 2016 - 05:18 PM.

[mirceaar]

So far I've tried as follows:

- the original Synta/Skywatcher sticky-as-**** grease. No. I mean NO.

- regular brown-ish off the shelf whatever-brand lithium soap mineral oil grease. Nice. Smooth. It tended to stiffen under colder conditions.

- lithium soap - mineral oil MoS2 black grease - the regular type. Smoother then the above, better behavior under cold conditions.

- red PTFE/Teflon lithium soap mineral oil bike grease. Smooth as the smooth ones above but in cold conditions it literally froze the mount, after it being left for ~1hr untouched at ~-10C

- the above red greased mixed well with PTFE/Teflon bike oil from the same manufacturer (Weldtite?). in a 3:1 volume proportion. Left the mount for about 2hrs untouched in the cold at about -15C, it didn't freeze. It rotated sensibly harder on both axes, but it didn't freeze.

All of the above greases were marketed as working down to -30C. Some did work under harsh conditions, some didn't.

I was eyeing the Aeroshell 33MS for the next try, but stumbled upon the Lubriplate Aero. It will reach me in a few days and I'll see how it behaves in a month or two, under cold (-5C) conditions. If it behaves, I'll keep an eye on it when the winter cometh.

If I'm not satisfied, I'll go for the Aeroshell and see how good it is.

I don't know that it's worse, but why bother with something unproven?

 

For the sake of testing, we're geeks after all, and so far I've had way too many cloudynights at hand

Edited by mirceaar, 06 July 2016 - 10:38 AM.

[EFT]

Forget the red grease.  The stuff is disgusting.  And don't mix stuff together.  That's a terrible idea.  The right amount of SuperLube will work every time.  The key is to use small amounts.

[Ron in Michigan]

OLD thread but many people search for info... I'll update it with M33 being repackaged and sold as this new product.

 

https://www.amazon.c...Z3GPAJ6S3WRGYV4