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Will Astronomy hardware and software adopt windows 10?

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#101 CHAPSKINS

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 04:19 PM

 

To be fair, Windows, Mac OS [after Jobs kicked the bucket] are both pure spywares handing over your personal details or via in-built backdoors to the NSA, GCHQ and The MOSSAD...

 

Alright, I've got to raise the bs flag here.  Prove it.

 

 

http://www.technobuf...dows-8-exploit/

 

http://www.cultofmac...t-and-6-others/

 

.


Edited by CHAPSKINS, 22 July 2015 - 04:24 PM.


#102 jackofalltrades

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 04:23 PM

That's a two year old report, that said simply the NSA (not any other agency either) MIGHT have backdoor access.  And it was also discredited and redacted by the very same German agency which put out the report - also two years ago.  Nothing about any other agency, like GCHQ or Mossad.  Just a bunch of FUD.  Nothing to see here, move on.



#103 CHAPSKINS

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 04:30 PM

That's a two year old report, that said simply the NSA (not any other agency either) MIGHT have backdoor access.  And it was also discredited and redacted by the very same German agency which put out the report - also two years ago.  Nothing about any other agency, like GCHQ or Mossad.  Just a bunch of FUD.  Nothing to see here, move on.

 

Lul...

 

.



#104 bluesteel

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 06:29 PM

My

 

 

To be fair, Windows, Mac OS [after Jobs kicked the bucket] are both pure spywares handing over your personal details or via in-built backdoors to the NSA, GCHQ and The MOSSAD...

 

Alright, I've got to raise the bs flag here.  Prove it.

 

 

My system logs are all the proof i need. The honeypot used to get hit constantly by chinese addresses 5+ years ago. Now the majority is from stateside addresses.



#105 jackofalltrades

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 10:38 PM

My

 

 

To be fair, Windows, Mac OS [after Jobs kicked the bucket] are both pure spywares handing over your personal details or via in-built backdoors to the NSA, GCHQ and The MOSSAD...

 

Alright, I've got to raise the bs flag here.  Prove it.

 

 

My system logs are all the proof i need. The honeypot used to get hit constantly by chinese addresses 5+ years ago. Now the majority is from stateside addresses.

I won't dispute you at all on that one.  But have you actually done any nslookups on those IP addresses to see where they go and who owns the systems collecting the data?  I'd be very surprised if any go to any servers or systems are even remotely associated with .gov or .mil systems.  Most likely they're from the add-ons, shareware/freeware, or even OS services that get turned on and the "I agree" box is checked allowing information to be sent on how you use your system.



#106 AstroEthan

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 12:33 AM

Software has to be uploaded for conversion to run from the Cloud (sites like cloudconvert dot com). A good developer will then have to test the converted software (and pass the cost on to you).

 
First off, thanks for introducing me to CloudConvert. It will be very helpful for me in the future, but I don't know how CloudConvert will help developers here as their conversion list does not include executable files. I haven't seen any backlash against Microsoft for something like this and I follow tech news religiously, so I think I would know about this by now if this was true.

 

If I process photos in Win10, DRM could prevent a Linux user, a WinXP user, or even another Win10 user from opening them. (Yeah, bad PR move, I think.)

 
...Which is why no such thing is implemented into the operating system itself. Once again, Microsoft would face heavy backlash if they did this.
 
 

Prove me wrong about the unusability of Win10 in remote areas by explaining how to access files and apps on the Cloud without an Internet connection.

 
Please tell me how you access files on the cloud with any computer using any operating system without an internet connection. Windows 10 will be as usable as older versions of Windows without online access. Once again, seen no backlash or mention.
 
Also, nobody said it better than rgsalinger:
 

This is really gotten silly. First of all, I ran Win 10 last weekend with the SKYX, MaximDL, CCDInspector and the Paramount MX5000 driver for about 8 hours. I had no internet connection. Everything worked as well as it did under Windows 7.


 

The mining of phone data ignores my main point: the other Orwellian features of Win10 are OK with you?

 
Can't come to conclusions until the ToS for final product comes out. This is an unfinished product that needs extensive testing so these "Orwellian features" could be there for the sole purpose of assisting development. Testers had the ToS for the Technical Preview laid in front of them and I'm sure every single tester took the time to read it thoroughly and made a logical decision.  :p
 
 

ReactOS is not yet ready for an official release so you say avoid it; Win10 isn't yet ready for an official release but you're recommending it?

 
Never said I recommended it or didn't. The closest I got to recommendation was:
 

Despite my annoyances with some programs not working with Windows 8 (I'm looking at you, JID!), I plan to upgrade to 10 as soon as I can.


I actually got JID to work shortly after that post, so I currently have no grudges against Windows 8, and I'm optimistic that I won't make new ones with Windows 10.
 
Also, you find it ridiculous that I am "recommending" an unfinished operating system, but you straight out recommended an unfinished operating system:
 

If you must use a PC, try ReactOS instead.

 
 
Lastly, I took an awful lot of energy comparing program compatibility between ReactOS, Windows XP, and Wine on Ubuntu. Attempted a live ReactOS hard drive but that went kursplat quickly. Loaded their official Virtualbox VM and spent hours trying to get Internet to work. Also spent lots of time trying to get it to share files between the host and guest and failed. Tried to install Guest Additions and got the BSOD:
 
post-229968-0-46092700-1437449607.png
 
I gave up and just tested all three Operating Systems offline despite only ReactOS having internet problems. I had no choice but to load all of the programs in a disk image to get them on ReactOS.
 
I understand how much you love Microsoft products, especially their cloud-based solutions, so I put them into an online Excel book everyone can view, request programs to test, contest results and troubleshoot the issues I had during testing.
 
http://1drv.ms/1JzA6qD
 
I plan on testing these programs on Windows 10 offline, and I will be surprised if more than one program breaks. Maybe if someone here on CN has the technical preview, they could test these programs and relay the results back to me. I think there is something many forget open the free and open source community: "You don't pay in cash, credit, or debit, you pay in time". There are exceptions like GIMP and Ubuntu, but I generally find open source programs to be buggy and hard to use.


Edited by AstroEthan, 23 July 2015 - 12:40 AM.


#107 bluesteel

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 08:58 PM

 

My

 

 

To be fair, Windows, Mac OS [after Jobs kicked the bucket] are both pure spywares handing over your personal details or via in-built backdoors to the NSA, GCHQ and The MOSSAD...

 

Alright, I've got to raise the bs flag here.  Prove it.

 

 

My system logs are all the proof i need. The honeypot used to get hit constantly by chinese addresses 5+ years ago. Now the majority is from stateside addresses.

I won't dispute you at all on that one.  But have you actually done any nslookups on those IP addresses to see where they go and who owns the systems collecting the data?  I'd be very surprised if any go to any servers or systems are even remotely associated with .gov or .mil systems.  Most likely they're from the add-ons, shareware/freeware, or even OS services that get turned on and the "I agree" box is checked allowing information to be sent on how you use your system.

 

Yes, but the nslookup tool for packets like the ones I am receiving obviously won't work worth a ****.  On top of that, you have to peel the layers off of the packets, like an onion, to get to the juicy stuff... some packets are made properly with encryption that makes them almost impossible to look inside, but not all of them are - as some of them have been made "lazily".  Some packets don't even "give a darn" and don't have any sort of obfuscation - these are meant to throw people off the trail.  Some packets are crafted quite cleverly in that they are incomplete in different ways in order to slip through the cracks of inferior firewalls and systems, while still being able to do their job.  Not the most difficult thing to do if you are running linux, know how a packet is constructed, manipulate it at the NIC layer, and send it through the wire.

You can be guaranteed though, that none of them are originating from any sort of .gov or .mil systems.  That would be plain stupid and ignorant, or quite bold.  There are multiple "shadow companies" made by 3 letter agencies doing this, as well as many blocks of "reserved" IP addresses (no, I am not talking about loopbacks, multicasts, etcetera) that are being used, either with or without the knowledge of the parties that hold the rights to them.  I am guessing the parties that hold the rights to some of these addresses are in the know though... as they are far from idiots that hold these addresses (the group that literally fixes the internet if/when it breaks is one of them).



#108 rgsalinger

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 12:38 PM

This is really really irrelevant to the simple discussion of Windows 10 and astronomy software. The OP was about whether software vendors and the community would be avoiding the new OS specifically because of the mandatory nature of updates, not whether or not some unidentified poster alleges correctly that all Windows systems are hopelessly compromised by security leaks. In addition to presenting actually zero evidence beyond sheer assertions, I would be prepared to really really doubt that the NSA is going to do something nefarious with the data my system sends to Astrometry.net or that the FBI will question my neighbors about my use of the new maximdl release. Right?

Rgrds-Ross 



#109 bobzeq25

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 08:58 AM

This thread was amusing.  But it largely ignored the reality that 90+% of users are not very sophisticated, even astronomy buffs. 

 

The issue for the original question is simply will Windows 10 achieve the market penetration level that causes astronomy vendors to support it, or lose money.  I'm guessing it will, that Microsoft is still in "every other OS is good" mode, that 10 will be adopted widely, and vendors will support it because that is what will make them the most money.  They (and those 90+% of users) care zip about the issues being discussed here.  Even automatic updates.

 

I'd also guess that Microsoft has ensured "automatic" updates (scary term) do not mess up running programs.  Even now it seems that updates are only downloaded and installed when you've told your computer either to shut down or boot up.  Easy enough for Microsoft to do, and it totally avoids the problem.


Edited by bobzeq25, 26 July 2015 - 09:02 AM.


#110 rmollise

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 12:41 PM

Now for a dose of reality fromm someone--shazam!--actually using Windows 10. I've tested every  bit of astronomy software I've got, and even the old stuff, like Megastar, works fine. :)

 

Because of the free and nearly automatic nature of the upgrade to 10 for most users, you can bet your bippy it will gain wider penetration more quickly than 8 ever did. ;)


Edited by rmollise, 31 July 2015 - 12:42 PM.


#111 Charlie B

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 12:57 PM

Now for a dose of reality fromm someone--shazam!--actually using Windows 10.

 

 

Rod,

 

Why would you want to insert reality into the discussion?  See you at AHSP.

 

Charlie B



#112 rmollise

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:22 PM

:)

Let me add that getting older stuff to run was much easier than on Win 7. No fiddling with compatibility.



#113 rmollise

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:23 PM

Looking forward to cool weather up on the mountain, Charlie!



#114 Goofi

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:08 PM

Ross and Rod, you're not allowed to participate in this discussion because you're clearly misinformed by actually using Win10 to do astronomy.  Please try and limit yourself to wild flights of speculation not grounded in reality like the rest of the posters here.  I mean, really .. how dare you try to keep this topic on topic of the original post!

 

As for me, I'm convinced that Time-Warner & Verizon are secretly merged into one company trying to take over all computers everywhere by tricking us to waste bandwidth downloading software upgrades we don't need, and the Russians/Chinese/US are running NAS packet sniffers to ferret out my secret stash of raw files in order to attach DRM on them in case they reveal the existence of aliens monitoring our advanced civilizations.

 

Nuff said ...



#115 obin robinson

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:37 PM

For what it's worth all of my astronomy software is running just fine in Windows 10. No problems here at all.

 

obin :p



#116 jackofalltrades

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:55 PM

Exactly Obin. In fact, Stellarium, which uses OpenGL (yuck), runs on my laptop with Windows 10 where it wouldn't run at all with Windows 7.



#117 rgsalinger

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:22 PM

Unlikely that something that got busted on Win8 will work on Win10 but you might want to read up on the compatibility settings that are available and contact Bisque to see what they think. I've had some luck with running things in compatibility mode. Win10 is just as efficient as Win7 so if your netbook runs 7 it will almost certainly run 10. MS has a tool to test it out. I was personally amazed that my 6 year old notebook upgraded itself and kept every single program I had including an installation of MS Office 2003 installed and running.

Rgrds-Ross



#118 Michael Covington

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:37 PM

The astronomy software companies are not going to "reject" Win 10. They will make whatever (mostly minor) changes are needed, because they want to continue to sell software, and before long most people will be using 10. Sorry. :)

In fact, software companies don't need to "adopt" Windows 10.  The software requirements have been the same since Vista, and if you wanted to make software that runs on Vista and doesn't run on 10, it would be very hard to do so!  Probably the only way to do it would be to have the software ask Windows the version.

I think a lot of people who thought Windows 7 or 8 broke their software, actually were bumping into the change from 32-bit Windows to 64-bit Windows.  For many years there have been both kinds of each Windows version, and they look alike but run on different CPUs.  The 64-bit versions don't support some older software that would run in the 32-bit versions.  That, not the version number upgrade, is what caused some people problems.  But the software affected by this was very old indeed (16-bit software from the Windows 3 era).



#119 rmollise

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 09:05 AM

The astronomy software companies are not going to "reject" Win 10. They will make whatever (mostly minor) changes are needed, because they want to continue to sell software, and before long most people will be using 10. Sorry. :)

In fact, software companies don't need to "adopt" Windows 10.  The software requirements have been the same since Vista, and if you wanted to make software that runs on Vista and doesn't run on 10, it would be very hard to do so!  Probably the only way to do it would be to have the software ask Windows the version.

I think a lot of people who thought Windows 7 or 8 broke their software, actually were bumping into the change from 32-bit Windows to 64-bit Windows.  For many years there have been both kinds of each Windows version, and they look alike but run on different CPUs.  The 64-bit versions don't support some older software that would run in the 32-bit versions.  That, not the version number upgrade, is what caused some people problems.  But the software affected by this was very old indeed (16-bit software from the Windows 3 era).


Exactly. There's little different here unless your software was last messed with during Win XP.

And I believe you are correct about 32/64. Frankly, the changes that bit most people were drivers, anyway, not the basic o/s.

#120 Hilmi

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 02:54 AM

Well, today I am taking the plunge and I am currently downloading Windows 10 on my primary imaging laptop. I tried it on my secondary laptop and I can say I am very happy with the way it worked. During the upgrade process I had to re-install some of my astronomy software, but it worked after that.

 

I noticed that I don't notice Windows 10 while working. I believe this is the biggest compliment I can give an operating system as it basically disappears into the background. Multiple desktops is great, I can have my planetarium software on one desktop and my imaging software on another desktop. I love the multi-desktop feature, Microsoft had introduced it with the power tools pack for windows 95, I am surprised they never rolled it up into a permanent operating system feature till now.




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