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#26 Starman1

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:14 AM

Yes, the NAV-HW is probably the equal of, or slightly better than, the Ethos.

But the price! Eek!


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#27 rmollise

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:40 AM

Rod,

I find the Ethos Eps a bit better than the copies but value aspect well the ES and other clones hard to beat

I compared on a few scopes the

20 ES 100 vs 21 Ethos, ethos a darker sky canvas, tad crisper and a tad deeper

14 ES 100 vs 13 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

9 ES 100 vs 10 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

 

Generally speaking of the 3 Ethos I had I find the 21 the best for eye placement the other ones I feel im to immersed in the FOV

 

It's quite possible your eyes are better than mine...but...

 

My result in one on one testing of the Ethos vs. ES100 at the Chiefland Astronomy Village a while back not long after the ESes came out was "virtually indistinguishable."

 

I love my Ethoses, but worth twice as much? Uh-uh. ;)



#28 rmollise

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:43 AM

Yes, the NAV-HW is probably the equal of, or slightly better than, the Ethos.

But the price! Eek!

 

Given what I've read (I haven't been able to try one yet) about it, I would say "nearly the equal." ;)

 

Of course, for some people having the name "Nikon" on the eyepiece barrel is worth the fare. Few years ago that would have probably been me. :lol:



#29 Tank

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:57 AM

 

Rod,

I find the Ethos Eps a bit better than the copies but value aspect well the ES and other clones hard to beat

I compared on a few scopes the

20 ES 100 vs 21 Ethos, ethos a darker sky canvas, tad crisper and a tad deeper

14 ES 100 vs 13 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

9 ES 100 vs 10 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

 

Generally speaking of the 3 Ethos I had I find the 21 the best for eye placement the other ones I feel im to immersed in the FOV

 

It's quite possible your eyes are better than mine...but...

 

My result in one on one testing of the Ethos vs. ES100 at the Chiefland Astronomy Village a while back not long after the ESes came out was "virtually indistinguishable."

 

I love my Ethoses, but worth twice as much? Uh-uh. ;)

 

Agreed about the value aspect



#30 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 11:39 AM

Yes, the NAV-HW is probably the equal of, or slightly better than, the Ethos.

But the price! Eek!

 

Hi Don,

 

Thanks to strong US dollar against Japanese yen, Nikon NAV HW isn't that expensive relatively speaking of course :)  When I bought them, it was 84-ish yen to dollar.   Now 123 yen to dollar. 

 

You may buy it cheaper than Ethos in the U.S. even including EMS charge from Japan.

 

Performance wise, it is very close.  I like Nikon better mainly because of comfy-factor.

 

Tammy



#31 Dadadee

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 11:59 AM

 

 The views were intoxicating.  

 

I totally agree.  That is a great way to describe the feeling one gets using an Ethos.



#32 junomike

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:03 PM

 

 

Rod,

I find the Ethos Eps a bit better than the copies but value aspect well the ES and other clones hard to beat

I compared on a few scopes the

20 ES 100 vs 21 Ethos, ethos a darker sky canvas, tad crisper and a tad deeper

14 ES 100 vs 13 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

9 ES 100 vs 10 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

 

Generally speaking of the 3 Ethos I had I find the 21 the best for eye placement the other ones I feel im to immersed in the FOV

 

It's quite possible your eyes are better than mine...but...

 

My result in one on one testing of the Ethos vs. ES100 at the Chiefland Astronomy Village a while back not long after the ESes came out was "virtually indistinguishable."

 

I love my Ethoses, but worth twice as much? Uh-uh. ;)

 

Agreed about the value aspect

 

 

 

 

Rod,

I find the Ethos Eps a bit better than the copies but value aspect well the ES and other clones hard to beat

I compared on a few scopes the

20 ES 100 vs 21 Ethos, ethos a darker sky canvas, tad crisper and a tad deeper

14 ES 100 vs 13 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

9 ES 100 vs 10 Ethos, same as above like the eye placement of the ES

 

Generally speaking of the 3 Ethos I had I find the 21 the best for eye placement the other ones I feel im to immersed in the FOV

 

It's quite possible your eyes are better than mine...but...

 

My result in one on one testing of the Ethos vs. ES100 at the Chiefland Astronomy Village a while back not long after the ESes came out was "virtually indistinguishable."

 

I love my Ethoses, but worth twice as much? Uh-uh. ;)

 

Agreed about the value aspect

 

We compared the ES 20mm 100° and 21E last night again in Tony's 16" Dob.  The edges are a little better in the 21E but this is without a Paracorr.  I'm guessing that one may level the playing field a little more.

Seeing as my 100's are my main EP's i think the ES series is perfect......for me at least.

 

Mike


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#33 Starman1

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:26 PM

When a Paracorr is added, the coma disappears from both, leaving the Ethos sharp to the edge and the 20 ES with astigmatism in the last 15 degrees or so.

But, as has been pointed out, the difference may not be worth $500 at the current spread unless one just wants the best 100 degree eyepiece at the focal length.


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#34 faackanders2

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 10:51 PM

I have never had the pleasure of observing with an Ethos eyepiece and I'm wondering if the AFOV is something I'm missing out on. I own the Delos line and I am quite happy with them, I use them primarily with my TMB 92SS and 6 inch F/8 Dob.

I was thinking about adding an Ethos but I'm not sure it's really worth it, I was hoping some Ethos owners could chime in and provide some suggestions, would it be better to add a short focal length eyepiece or long?? Is it even worth it considering I own the Delos?? Does the AFOV offer a big wow factor over the Delos??

I will be using it primarily with the TMB which has a 505mm focal length, any comments or suggestions are very welcome.

If you like Delos, you probably wear glasses and/or like long eye relief.  100AFOV eye relief is significantly lower, and those with bad astigmatism tend to prefer longer ER.  If astigmatism is low you can enjoy 100 AFOV viewing w/o glasses.

 

Higher focal length eyepieces (lower power) tend to get used more, especially if you use one as a finder eyepiece.


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#35 faackanders2

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 10:56 PM

When a Paracorr is added, the coma disappears from both, leaving the Ethos sharp to the edge and the 20 ES with astigmatism in the last 15 degrees or so.

But, as has been pointed out, the difference may not be worth $500 at the current spread unless one just wants the best 100 degree eyepiece at the focal length.

I primarily got the Paracorr II because i needed it for the 20mm 100AFOV ES.  But sometimes I still observe w/o the Paracorr II either for quickness or wider views.



#36 JimMo

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 02:31 PM

 

When a Paracorr is added, the coma disappears from both, leaving the Ethos sharp to the edge and the 20 ES with astigmatism in the last 15 degrees or so.

But, as has been pointed out, the difference may not be worth $500 at the current spread unless one just wants the best 100 degree eyepiece at the focal length.

I primarily got the Paracorr II because i needed it for the 20mm 100AFOV ES.  But sometimes I still observe w/o the Paracorr II either for quickness or wider views.

 

 

Hi Ken,  Every once in a while I remove my PC to see what the views are like without it.  At f/4.3 I quickly put it back in the focuser and ask myself what was I thinking.  With your telescope at f/4 I wouldn't think you'd ever remove it.  Then again, I can't tolerate coma at all, at least, not if I can easily fix it.

 

Cheers.  I hope it's clear for beginner's night tonight.  I have a wedding to go to.  



#37 allen g

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 01:41 PM

Having ethos, delos, and nagler EPs, I will just note the following.  As said above the delos and ethos are the same optically. It is a  matter of whether you enjoy that greater fov.  I do but it is a very personal thing so try it before purchasing.  I find that for planetary viewing there is no need for the ethos other than the issue of drift in an ALTAZ  mount, which I have but do not find it bothersome with my DiscMount. Lastly, when it comes to viewing targets such as the veil or Pleiades there is nothing like having EPs with large fov.  For example, in my np-101 and with a nagler 31, I can observe the entire veil as it gives me 4.5*  or with my 10 ethos I beautify frame Pleiades which is 2*.  Try before you buy but you may end up with a different point of view.   


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#38 faackanders2

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 09:40 PM

 

 

When a Paracorr is added, the coma disappears from both, leaving the Ethos sharp to the edge and the 20 ES with astigmatism in the last 15 degrees or so.

But, as has been pointed out, the difference may not be worth $500 at the current spread unless one just wants the best 100 degree eyepiece at the focal length.

I primarily got the Paracorr II because i needed it for the 20mm 100AFOV ES.  But sometimes I still observe w/o the Paracorr II either for quickness or wider views.

 

 

Hi Ken,  Every once in a while I remove my PC to see what the views are like without it.  At f/4.3 I quickly put it back in the focuser and ask myself what was I thinking.  With your telescope at f/4 I wouldn't think you'd ever remove it.  Then again, I can't tolerate coma at all, at least, not if I can easily fix it.

 

Cheers.  I hope it's clear for beginner's night tonight.  I have a wedding to go to.  

 

YES I HAVE SOME COMA WITH THE 20MM 100AFOV ES WITH PARACORR II IN MY F4.1 17" DISCOVERY SPLIT TUBE, SO I DO ACCEPT MORE COMA THAN YOU FOR WIDER VIEWS (AND MULTIPLE OBJECTS IN THE SAME VIEW).

 

P.S.  BEGINNERS NIGHT WAS NICE.  GOT TO LOOK THROUGH A DENK NIGHT VISION BINO-LIKE VIEWER, AND GOT TO COMPARE TWO 100MM BINOS (45DEG VS. 90 DEG).



#39 Starman1

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 01:06 AM

The Paracorr II completely eliminates coma over a 40mm field stop down to f/3.5, so what you see in the 20mm at the edge is astigmatism, not coma.

And if you DO see coma, the Paracorr is not on the right setting for that eyepiece.



#40 John Anthony

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 09:59 PM

5mm is a serious sweet spot for me with my TMB 92SS, I think I'm going to go with the 4.7 Ethos, should be a noticeable wow factor in AFOV over a 4.5mm Delos. The price is giving me an ouchie.
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#41 FirstSight

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 10:33 PM

5mm is a serious sweet spot for me with my TMB 92SS, I think I'm going to go with the 4.7 Ethos, should be a noticeable wow factor in AFOV over a 4.5mm Delos. The price is giving me an ouchie.

 

Every single time I added another Ethos to my set, I bought it with cash from our local Televue dealer in Raleigh (SE Camera)

EVERY SINGLE TIME as I counted out and parted with my cash to Tony or Pat, I've felt a bit nauseous and nervous with self-doubt over whether I was indulging something foolishly extravagant, both in absolute terms of $$ and in terms of relative added benefit it could bring to my enjoyment of the night sky.  As I drove my new eyepiece home, those feelings would taper off, but wouldn't entirely dissipate either over the rest of the day - 

UNTIL first light with my new Ethos that night.  Within the first couple of minutes of seeing the actual view through my new Ethos, all the nerves and self-doubt would be completely banished, never to return wrt that particular eyepiece.  At that point, the hole it's burned in my pocket would seem quite worthwhile, though it would still sting for awhile.

 

YMMV, obviously.  But be reassured, you'd have to be either insane or too wealthy for money to matter to not feel nervous about parting with that much cash for an Ethos.  Been there, done that, eight times.  And I'm neither too wealthy for money to matter, nor am I insane. :eyecrazy:

:grin:


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#42 Starman1

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:34 AM

Ah, a fellow traveler.

 

And great in all your scopes.

 

I bought the 13 E thinking I would try it.  And I compared it extensively with the 13 T6 and kept the Ethos (my comments are elsewhere on CN),

Then came the 8 E and I thought that was great.  Then the 6 E.  And I had a feeling I needed the 10 in between the 13 and 8, so the 10 found a place in my box.

And then the 21, of course, to replace the 22T4, my favorite Nagler.  And the 4.7 because I needed a higher power to go with my better mirror.

And then I borrowed the 17 and it was a fantastic view--maybe, I'm not sure, better than the 21.  But I started discovering the PK planetaries after a gap of several years,

and the 3.7 became practical to see 10" planetaries.

I don't feel too guilty because the 8 replaced a set over twice as large, which, in turn, had replaced a set many times bigger.  These things are the eyepiece equivalent of Lay's potato chips.

 

But a funny thing happened on the way to the Forum: I discovered that the night decided which ones I use.  Average seeing, and I use the 21-13-8 set.  Great seeing and I use the 17-10-6 set.  And when the seeing and targets allow, the 4.7 and 3.7.  The first time I saw NGC7009 in the 3.7, looking like a double planetary with wings, when for years I'd always thought it was just a small bright oval, I knew I hadn't really seen most of the objects I'd viewed because I'd used too low a power.

 

I'm not a wealthy guy, either, but I just couldn't pass up eyepieces that may keep me happy for the rest of my life.  My wife periodically asks me if I need another eyepiece (after her 40th new pair of shoes), and now I say no.  After 315 eyepieces, I have the ones I always wanted.  Too bad I didn't save all that money along the way.  I'd already be retired. :lol:


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#43 Scott in NC

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 08:48 AM

 

 

Every single time I added another Ethos to my set, I bought it with cash from our local Televue dealer in Raleigh (SE Camera)

EVERY SINGLE TIME as I counted out and parted with my cash to Tony or Pat, I've felt a bit nauseous and nervous with self-doubt over whether I was indulging something foolishly extravagant, both in absolute terms of $$ and in terms of relative added benefit it could bring to my enjoyment of the night sky.  As I drove my new eyepiece home, those feelings would taper off, but wouldn't entirely dissipate either over the rest of the day - 

UNTIL first light with my new Ethos that night.  Within the first couple of minutes of seeing the actual view through my new Ethos, all the nerves and self-doubt would be completely banished, never to return wrt that particular eyepiece.  At that point, the hole it's burned in my pocket would seem quite worthwhile, though it would still sting for awhile.

 

YMMV, obviously.  But be reassured, you'd have to be either insane or too wealthy for money to matter to not feel nervous about parting with that much cash for an Ethos.  Been there, done that, eight times.  And I'm neither too wealthy for money to matter, nor am I insane. :eyecrazy:

:grin:

 

 

Chris, I can definitely relate to what you're saying.  Even though I bought my Ethoses used, they still weren't exactly cheap, and I don't typically part with my hard-earned cash easily, especially for frivolities.  So I remember thinking "wow, this is the most I've ever spent for an eyepiece before, so it had better be worth it, or I'll just resell it for what I paid." A year later I still have my 4 Ethoses, and haven't looked back.  And the best thing is that I was able to recoup a significant fraction of my expenditure by selling off a ton of lesser eyepieces ("lesser" either in the sense of not being as good, or else nearly as good but just not as suitable for my current observing wants and needs).



#44 csrlice12

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 09:35 AM

 

5mm is a serious sweet spot for me with my TMB 92SS, I think I'm going to go with the 4.7 Ethos, should be a noticeable wow factor in AFOV over a 4.5mm Delos. The price is giving me an ouchie.

 

Every single time I added another Ethos to my set, I bought it with cash from our local Televue dealer in Raleigh (SE Camera)

EVERY SINGLE TIME as I counted out and parted with my cash to Tony or Pat, I've felt a bit nauseous and nervous with self-doubt over whether I was indulging something foolishly extravagant, both in absolute terms of $$ and in terms of relative added benefit it could bring to my enjoyment of the night sky.  As I drove my new eyepiece home, those feelings would taper off, but wouldn't entirely dissipate either over the rest of the day - 

UNTIL first light with my new Ethos that night.  Within the first couple of minutes of seeing the actual view through my new Ethos, all the nerves and self-doubt would be completely banished, never to return wrt that particular eyepiece.  At that point, the hole it's burned in my pocket would seem quite worthwhile, though it would still sting for awhile.

 

YMMV, obviously.  But be reassured, you'd have to be either insane or too wealthy for money to matter to not feel nervous about parting with that much cash for an Ethos.  Been there, done that, eight times.  And I'm neither too wealthy for money to matter, nor am I insane. :eyecrazy:

:grin:

 

Guess we are more similar than different.....When I got mine, I'd start home thinking "what did I just do?", but by the time I got it home I've got a ****eating grin on my face ear-to-ear.......

 

.....and in my 10' dob.....the 4.7 Ethos and M13 were made for each other.......



#45 FirstSight

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 12:27 PM

 

 

5mm is a serious sweet spot for me with my TMB 92SS, I think I'm going to go with the 4.7 Ethos, should be a noticeable wow factor in AFOV over a 4.5mm Delos. The price is giving me an ouchie.

 

Every single time I added another Ethos to my set, I bought it with cash from our local Televue dealer in Raleigh (SE Camera)

EVERY SINGLE TIME as I counted out and parted with my cash to Tony or Pat, I've felt a bit nauseous and nervous with self-doubt over whether I was indulging something foolishly extravagant, both in absolute terms of $$ and in terms of relative added benefit it could bring to my enjoyment of the night sky.  As I drove my new eyepiece home, those feelings would taper off, but wouldn't entirely dissipate either over the rest of the day - 

UNTIL first light with my new Ethos that night.  Within the first couple of minutes of seeing the actual view through my new Ethos, all the nerves and self-doubt would be completely banished, never to return wrt that particular eyepiece.  At that point, the hole it's burned in my pocket would seem quite worthwhile, though it would still sting for awhile.

 

YMMV, obviously.  But be reassured, you'd have to be either insane or too wealthy for money to matter to not feel nervous about parting with that much cash for an Ethos.  Been there, done that, eight times.  And I'm neither too wealthy for money to matter, nor am I insane. :eyecrazy:

:grin:

 

Guess we are more similar than different.....When I got mine, I'd start home thinking "what did I just do?", but by the time I got it home I've got a ****eating grin on my face ear-to-ear.......

 

.....and in my 10' dob.....the 4.7 Ethos and M13 were made for each other.......

 

 

The reason I always bought new eyepieces on a day I could reliably count on to stay clear that night, should be apparent from my quoted post.  Nevertheless, that bit of foresight never successfully forestalled the waves of nauseous nervousness at the sales counter, nor the lingering anxiety prior to nightfall.



#46 John Anthony

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 08:36 PM

Well... It's on it's way, I hope the wow is worth the damage it just did to my wallet.
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#47 Scott in NC

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 08:43 PM

Well... It's on it's way, I hope the wow is worth the damage it just did to my wallet.

 

Don't worry, the first one is always the hardest.  Just wait 'til you get the second, and third, and... :grin:



#48 csrlice12

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 10:14 PM

On the plus side there's only eight of them.....


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#49 John Anthony

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 03:17 PM

 Just arrived today, I'm looking forward to getting it under the stars, I never looked thru 110 degree AFOV.  it's one serious hunk of eyepiece.

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#50 Scott in NC

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 03:57 PM

Nice, John! :like:




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