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New Takahashi FC-100DL

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#26 tomcody

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 09:20 AM

Another 4 inch Tak? Why not a FC-125 or FC-150 or TSA 150?

Given Takahashi's preference to re-purpose already designed components, a FC120 in a 114mm tube, or perhaps a FC FC130 in a 125mm tube seems most likely the next possible offerings ( if the light cone & baffle math works out?).

Rex

PS If it were offered? a FC120 in a 114mm ( FS102/TSA102 tubes) ( perhaps with the Sky90-2.6" focuser to save weight? ) would be my favorite!

Imagine a scope the size & weight of a FS102 with a 120mm lens.  :grin:


Edited by tomcody, 17 August 2015 - 10:14 AM.

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#27 BillP

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 10:13 AM

But why discontinue the TSA102?  I don't see the connection there unless there's a TOA102 or TOA110 coming out.  

 

 

I can think of several reasons if, as suggested, the new one has just as good color correction and better star points ala the 130...

 

1. Doublet tolerances less critical than a triplet

2. Less glass so potentially less cost

3. Less complicated lens cell

4. Quicker cooling

5. Less overall weight

6. Expands their Fluorite Advantage concept (if it does use Fluorite).


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#28 tomcody

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 10:19 AM

And to add to what Bill said above, if Tak offers a larger FC? it may well compete at the same price point as the TSA102 and I think sales of TSA102's have not been that great, when was the last time someone posted about getting a new one?

IMO, the TSA is one of the best 4" scopes ever made but most owners seem to move away from it for a bigger scope.

Rex


Edited by tomcody, 17 August 2015 - 11:26 AM.


#29 mblack

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 10:38 AM

...FC-100DL refractor. The focal point seems to be f/9 (or 900mm). I assume it's an fluorite doublet, just like the FC100D (f/7.4).


Thought I had scratched the 100mm refractor itch, but this would be too tempting to pass up.



#30 nicknacknock

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 10:44 AM

I Can't understand why only Takahashi's situation requires other solution that actually is working same way that other manufacturers are using. Not only that, even some manufacturer hasn't got an official distributor in Europe (not to say a repairing service or at least first level of it) and only are offering a selling service.

 

TEC is good example of this. Selling the TEC140ed in USA at 5900$ -taken it from TEC website- but at 7225$ in Europe -taken it from a European seller- . Wait... it's an increase of nearby 25%. ... :grin:

Well, about 20% VAT tax and 4.2% import tax and there's that 25%...



#31 BillP

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 10:49 AM

Given Takahashi's preference to re-purpose already designed components, a FC120 in a 114mm tube, or perhaps a FC FC130 in a 125mm tube seems most likely the next possible offerings ( if the light cone & baffle math works out?).

 

 

If Tak offered a Fluorite 130mm doublet I would be all over that!


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#32 tomcody

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 11:18 AM

 

Given Takahashi's preference to re-purpose already designed components, a FC120 in a 114mm tube, or perhaps a FC FC130 in a 125mm tube seems most likely the next possible offerings ( if the light cone & baffle math works out?).

 

 

If Tak offered a Fluorite 130mm doublet I would be all over that!

 

Aaah....FS128 Bill, 

Rex



#33 BillP

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 12:29 PM

 

Aaah....FS128 Bill, 

 

 

 

Yes...but I want one made fresh, with best coatings :grin:


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#34 Astrojensen

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 02:35 PM

Did anyone else catch that there seemed to have been announced a new 125mm f/9.6 from someone at that star party? And is Goto Tokyo coming out with a new 60mm f/20 along with their 100mm f/10 ED? 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark



#35 edif300

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 02:35 PM

FC-76, FC-100, FC-125, FC-150
TOA-110, TOA-130, TOA-150, TOA-175

 

who needs more?  :p  :p


Edited by edif300, 17 August 2015 - 02:36 PM.

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#36 Scott99

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 05:32 PM

Did anyone else catch that there seemed to have been announced a new 125mm f/9.6 from someone at that star party? And is Goto Tokyo coming out with a new 60mm f/20 along with their 100mm f/10 ED? 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

 

It looks like the page has disappeared from the original URL - does anyone know where it went?  

 

Wow, so a new f/10 FC125….that would be awesome!  No one's done anything like that in years.


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#37 jrbarnett

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 05:48 PM

 

 

 

 

Another 4 inch Tak? Why not a FC-125 or FC-150 or TSA 150?

agreed, need something new from them larger, i was soo close to buying 100-df, glad i put it off, perhaps a 100-dl is in order, but they really need to make a 5-6 inch doublet flourite or bigger tsa

 

Or better still, why not get rid of the exclusive distributorship and go dealer-direct so the US market can enjoy home market pricing.  Tak scopes here are marked up by 30% or more compared to Japan retail.  Imagine the US mark-up over wholesale!

 

- Jim 

 

We've been getting "shafted" by Takahashi for decades....now more than ever!

 

Keeping the doors open with a LOW volume high end boutique business takes a high markup and even then profits are not that great, ( I know from personal experiance ). Anyone who has actually looked at the TNR shop can see it is not swimming in wealth ( or located in a fancy mall or high rent shopping location). Sure people could circumvent the distributorship process and save some money but the cost of not having a USA distributer would be : no in country repair or service or stock, everything would be a overseas order.

All in all, I think we are better off having a US distributer than not and that costs something!

Rex  

 

Implausible.  

 

The cost of living is higher in Japan.  The total size of the market is smaller.  And yet the dealers there manage to make ample profits on Takahashi goods selling 30% below the US MSRP as set by the exclusive distributor here.

 

If anything the opposite is true - the greater volume here should allow LOWER pricing than in the smaller Japan market.  There would be plenty to pay dealers and distributor lower overhead too.

 

It's a greed thing.  Trust me.  :grin:

 

Regards,

 

Jim


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#38 bobhen

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 06:07 PM

APM in Germany offers a 130 F9.25 triplet apo with a LZOS lens. Markus Ludes has mentioned that the 130 F6 LZOS Apo outsells the 130 F9 by 10 to 1.

 

I think you guys are forgetting just how long a F9 or F10 tube is when the aperture starts increasing.

 

I’m guessing Tak TSA 120 sales started cannibalizing Tak TSA 102 sales. I believe that is the reason they came out with the FC 100 offerings. If you are going to spend $3,500 for a 4” that weights 11 pounds, why not shell out a grand more and get the 120 that weights only a pound and a half more than the 102?

 

The Tak TSA 120 only weights 12.6 pounds bare OTA. To get my attention Tak would have to produce a 130mm Fluorite doublet that was no greater than F7.5 and weighed about the same as the TSA 120 with the same optical quality and lack of CA. Good luck. But here’s hoping.

 

Bob


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#39 pga7602

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 06:18 PM

 

 

Aaah....FS128 Bill, 

 

 

 

Yes...but I want one made fresh, with best coatings :grin:

 

Not to mentiom its kinda long



#40 StarDust1

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 07:09 PM

 

 

 

Aaah....FS128 Bill, 

 

 

 

Yes...but I want one made fresh, with best coatings :grin:

 

Not to mentiom its kinda long

 

 

Yes, the original FS128 is long, very long tube :p  But the FS128NSV is short and manageable. Even the FS152NSV that I had in my hands was short and easy manageable. 

 

If they made a FC125 or FC150, they need to make it with sliding dew shield. It makes big difference during transport. 

 

I would be happy with a fresh FS152NSV from the Tak factory, with the original coating and glass, that's going to be a keeper and then I'm done with reading all these equipment sites :p   :lol:



#41 Danny206

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 09:31 PM

This seems to show that Tak had the visual concept right from the start with the FC and FS series doublets. about 10 years ago when I left the hobby the color free apo triplets were all the rage and doublets were considered inferior for their chromatic aberration on bright objects. Now the market is full of triplet offerings and Tak is going back to their previous designs of low weight simple fluorite doublets. The more things change the more they stay the same!


Edited by Danny206, 17 August 2015 - 09:31 PM.

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#42 nicknacknock

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 12:27 AM

Speaking of costs and margins, I noted something completely off with the pricing of Tak scopes:

 

FC76 DC from Europe: EUR 1,574 or US$ 1,455 excluding VAT

FC76 DC from the US: US$1,949

 

TSA 120 from Europe: EUR 3,135 or US$ 2,925 excluding VAT with 3" Feathertouch focuser.

TSA 120 from the US: US$ 4,695 with the TAK focuser

 

Prices for EU from the German dealer of Takahashi, prices in US from whatever I could dig from the Net (OPT, Anacortes e.t.c.). Even with shipping taken into account, still cheaper, especially for the TSA 120   :confused:  :confused:  :confused:


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#43 Erik Bakker

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:00 AM

Lets be realistic guys.

 

Shipping scopes from the US to Europe and paying taxes to legally import them, I've payed around 25% for import duties and VAT (sales tax). Should be similar when importing goods from Europe into the US. Add US$ 100-200 for shipping a 4-5" OTA insured. 

 

The afore mentioned TSA120 from the German dealer costs EUR 4.573 including 19% German VAT = EUR 3.843 exc. taxes, see here.

 

Now ship that scope to the US, add the applicable taxes and prices end up at a similar level. And at some time in their lives, scopes may need a bit of service, always good to have that available in your own country. 


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#44 nicknacknock

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:05 AM

Erik,

 

Good catch! My bad on the calculation of the TSA 120 (where did I even find that number :confused:  :confused:  :confused: )! 

 

But still, at $4,227 with the 3" FTF, it is still a much better deal.

 

However, I agree with you 100% regarding your last sentence on service. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, you do need the backup.



#45 Erik Bakker

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:07 AM

Show me that number again and I would have an urge to press a "buy now" button Nick  :)



#46 nicknacknock

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:10 AM

You and me buddy!

 

My bad doing 4 things at the same time on CN. This is not a morning for multitasking apparently. Need more java   :imawake: ...



#47 nicknacknock

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:12 AM

Question: What's the tax rate on telescopes imported from Japan to the US if any?



#48 Danny206

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:18 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Another 4 inch Tak? Why not a FC-125 or FC-150 or TSA 150?

agreed, need something new from them larger, i was soo close to buying 100-df, glad i put it off, perhaps a 100-dl is in order, but they really need to make a 5-6 inch doublet flourite or bigger tsa

 

Or better still, why not get rid of the exclusive distributorship and go dealer-direct so the US market can enjoy home market pricing.  Tak scopes here are marked up by 30% or more compared to Japan retail.  Imagine the US mark-up over wholesale!

 

- Jim 

 

We've been getting "shafted" by Takahashi for decades....now more than ever!

 

Keeping the doors open with a LOW volume high end boutique business takes a high markup and even then profits are not that great, ( I know from personal experiance ). Anyone who has actually looked at the TNR shop can see it is not swimming in wealth ( or located in a fancy mall or high rent shopping location). Sure people could circumvent the distributorship process and save some money but the cost of not having a USA distributer would be : no in country repair or service or stock, everything would be a overseas order.

All in all, I think we are better off having a US distributer than not and that costs something!

Rex  

 

Implausible.  

 

The cost of living is higher in Japan.  The total size of the market is smaller.  And yet the dealers there manage to make ample profits on Takahashi goods selling 30% below the US MSRP as set by the exclusive distributor here.

 

If anything the opposite is true - the greater volume here should allow LOWER pricing than in the smaller Japan market.  There would be plenty to pay dealers and distributor lower overhead too.

 

It's a greed thing.  Trust me.   :grin:

 

Regards,

 

Jim

 

 

the newest example of this is the FSQ130ED selling for 1,220,000  yen in japan, or $9812 in current dollars  and for $12,795 here in the US



#49 Kunama

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 02:51 AM

I will hold off ordering one of these until I see whether Gumby's idea of multiple OTAs comes to fruition. I suppose I could order seven of these FC100DLs and strap them together.

 

Seriously,  I doubt I will be investing in another refractor under 150mm aperture for some time.


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#50 Allan Wade

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 03:00 AM

Matt, at least you are speaking from a position of experience having owned a number of beautiful Tak scopes. But maybe you are turning into a Dob convert. Time will tell. I wonder if there is a place for both types in your life.


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