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Broken EdgeHD 11 baffle lenses fell out!

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#1 JoeR

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 12:44 AM

While observing I noticed the stars were not looking right, as I focused in and out they weren't looking collimated, but with a different type of aberration like mini comet tails. The primary and secondary were fine. When I removed the visual back the lenses suddenly fell out of the baffle tube. I am uncertain how they are be re-inserted I tried various positions and one finally gave me normal stars but with the same aberrations, plus the lenses won't stay in now without the tube and rubber retainer to hold them. Has this ever known to happen before is there a simple fix or am I screwed? the lenses are now dirty from being handled they're very hard to clean. This is very discerning as I fear the OTA is ruined now.



#2 stevew

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 02:47 AM

Joe, sorry to hear about this.

My advice would be to bite the bullet and have Celestron make the repair.

At least you know it will be done correctly and you'll probably never have to worry about it again.



#3 Herr Ointment

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 11:31 AM

You're the first that I've heard this happen to.......

 

I'm guessing this is something you can fix yourself, although I won't pretend I know how to do it.

 

From the Celestron White Paper it appears the lenses are fixed in one position and with the possibility of an air gap as an exception are non-adjustable.

 

So I'm curious.....when removing the visual back did the retainer for the sub aperture lenses come with it?

 

It looks like the lenses would be held in with a tube as they are located quite a ways into the baffle tube on a C11 HD. Is this correct?



#4 EFT

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 01:08 PM

Definitely send this in to Celestron to fix or replace.



#5 JoeR

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 02:49 PM

Yeah I downloaded the white paper and inserted the lenses in the manner shown but still not aligned exactly right. There's also a spacer ring and I have no idea where that goes. I tried viewing without the lenses to see if it would behave like a regular SCT, but it doesn't confirming the aplanatic cassegrain mirrors are a unique design. This has been a problem for some time, as the OTA was exhibiting symptoms for 2 years now. It periodically would have bad stars then correct itself as the OTA got moved around. Initially I thought it was a secondary collimation problem. So I don't think the lenses were ever fully secure and gradually loosened on their own from use and transport. Yes there is a long tube that holds them in place. Interesting the white paper shows the 9.25" and 14" corrector lenses are set in different ends of the baffle tube. The end of the baffle right before the visual back has internal threads indicating there should be a ring there to secure it all but mine has nothing.

 

Really bummed out as this is the second time it will need to go back to Celestron. The first was a defective motor board on the CPC mount before the OTA got de-forked this year. Unfortunately it's now well out of warranty and Celestron's service is painfully slow to say the least. I have no idea what it will cost me I've been contemplating going back to a plain C11 if necessary. I'm now out of commission for the remainder of the year, expect for my C8 which is not really setup for imaging and subpar for visual compared to the EdgeHD 11.



#6 junomike

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:13 AM

Yeah I downloaded the white paper and inserted the lenses in the manner shown but still not aligned exactly right. There's also a spacer ring and I have no idea where that goes. I tried viewing without the lenses to see if it would behave like a regular SCT, but it doesn't confirming the aplanatic cassegrain mirrors are a unique design. This has been a problem for some time, as the OTA was exhibiting symptoms for 2 years now. It periodically would have bad stars then correct itself as the OTA got moved around. Initially I thought it was a secondary collimation problem. So I don't think the lenses were ever fully secure and gradually loosened on their own from use and transport. Yes there is a long tube that holds them in place. Interesting the white paper shows the 9.25" and 14" corrector lenses are set in different ends of the baffle tube. The end of the baffle right before the visual back has internal threads indicating there should be a ring there to secure it all but mine has nothing.

 

Really bummed out as this is the second time it will need to go back to Celestron. The first was a defective motor board on the CPC mount before the OTA got de-forked this year. Unfortunately it's now well out of warranty and Celestron's service is painfully slow to say the least. I have no idea what it will cost me I've been contemplating going back to a plain C11 if necessary. I'm now out of commission for the remainder of the year, expect for my C8 which is not really setup for imaging and subpar for visual compared to the EdgeHD 11.

Joe, What a trail of bad luck you're having with this telescope.  The Fork Mount issue you and others have had has kept me from acquiring a CPC 1100 Deluxe.  Now with this Baffle lens issue I'm wondering about the EdgeHD series as well (although my 8" EdgeHD seems fine).

 

Also Interesting is the fact the Images seem incorrect with the lenses removed. My understanding was that the standard OTA and EdgeHD OTA were the same except for the lens. If so, your EdgeHD should work the same as a standard OTA, no?

 

Mike



#7 jhayes_tucson

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:29 AM

Joe,

First, do not panic.  As long as the lenses did not get damaged, it is totally repairable.  The weird thing is that those lenses are supposed to be held in with a threaded retainer ring that get's locktite'd in place (if the C11 is like the C14 ...and I think it is.)  I've removed those lenses many times in C14s and it's not super easy unless you do it just the right way.  There is no way for these lenses to just "fall out" unless the lock-ring was missing for some reason and that's crazy!

 

You should be holding two lenses along with a metal spacer... and a threaded lock ring.  First, I recommend that you contact Celestron about doing the repair.  They will clean the lenses and reassemble and test the system.  The downside is that we all know how slow they are.

 

IF you want to put it back together yourself and you have all the parts (including the lock ring,) here are the steps:

 

1)  Wear glove and use acetone and Kleenex to carefully clean the lenses.  Hold them up to a bright light to make sure that they are spot less and dust free.

2)  You will need a drawing to know what lens goes where and I can supply a sketch if you lost track of the proper orientation.  (PM me and let me know.)

3)  Set the telescope face down on a bench and carefully orient and align each lens with the cell and drop it in.  It is a very tight fit so you have to get everything square before the lens will slide into place.  Do not touch the lens surfaces with your gloved fingers.  If the lens gets cocked, use a piece of tissue to gently wiggle it in place.  Use air to clean out the dust if you have to use tissue.  Then drop in the spacer.  It will go right in.  Then repeat the procedure for the rear lenses.   Make sure that everything is tightly seated and then screw in the retainer.  It should be turned moderately tight but be careful not to go too far.  You can chip a lens by over-tightening.  If you get the lenses stuck and you can't get them to seat, you have to push them back out with a big wad of tissue on a stick from the front end of the baffle, and start all over.

 

This procedure is not for the feint of heart so I strongly suggest that you just ship the whole thing back to the factory to get it repaired.  It is simply unbelievable that it "fell apart!!!"

 

Celestron really needs to set up a network of factory authorized repair centers where this stuff could be addressed much more quickly!  Heck, even I could have this thing cleaned up and repaired for you within an hour if I had all the parts.

 

John


Edited by jhayes_tucson, 07 September 2015 - 09:30 AM.


#8 PowellAstro

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 09:47 AM

I have worked on a few where the baffle was over milled on the threads. This left the retaining ring just barely catching the threads and just snugging down, it would jump threads. So his may have these same machining tolerance errors. If you have all the parts, it might be helpful to just screw in the retainer ring a half inch first and see if it is snug in the threads before you put the lenses back in or you may have a repeat of this problem.

#9 JoeR

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:10 PM

There is no way for these lenses to just "fall out" unless the lock-ring was missing for some reason and that's crazy!

 

The lock-ring is missing. Where it went I have no idea. This probably came about from a year ago when I had an accident with it. I was leaving a dark site heading home and a raccoon ran out in front of me. I slammed on the brakes hard causing the OTA to hurl forward smashing the windshield and hitting the dash hard. That's when I noticed the collimation was acting up. After re-collimating messing with the secondary mirror it was fine so I though it was all fixed, though I has a suspicion it may have been the corrector lenses resetting themselves.

 

I'd be fairly confident in fixing it myself if I had the lock-ring. I'm guessing this is a custom machined part and can't be replaced except through Celestron. I have many other issues that need attention that they can take care of as well. The raccoon accident put a big dent on the aluminum tube so that needs replaced. There's been more mirror shift lately, even when the locks are engaged. I chipped the end of the corrector plate with the alignment hex screw a couple years ago when I was trying to align the corrector for Hyperstar use. So it could really use an overall tune-up as well has the baffle lenses fixed. I inspected the lenses in the light after cleaning them they look pretty good but there is a couple tiny scratches on one lens from falling out onto the pavement. I'm sure too small to be noticed when the scope is focused.



#10 Edd Weninger

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:58 PM

It would have been useful for those trying to help to know this up front. 



#11 EFT

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 10:41 PM

OMG.  That fact that it isn't a pile of twisted metal and shattered glass is simply amazing considering what damage even just a UPS guy can do to one of these things.  I'm afraid that you really should bit the bullet and send it in.  That way, even though it will take while, you will get back a scope that will really work as it should and I would really not want those scratches on the lenses.



#12 jhayes_tucson

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 03:59 AM

Scratches on the field lenses might be more of an issue than you think.  The beam is pretty small back there and the effect of even small scratches may be pretty big.  It may take a while but sending the scope back to the big 'C' for repair is your best bet.  If you want to do it yourself, call the service department to see if you can negotiate buying the parts that you need.  I'd sure give them a hard time about the missing lens retaining ring!  My guess about the slow turn around at Celestron is that they may not stock very many spares so some of the waiting time may be to get parts in from China.  I think that it's all shipped by slow boat.  Either way, you may wait a while before it's fixed and ready to go.

 

John



#13 JoeR

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 11:59 AM

I contacted Celestron today and gave them all the info and requested a repair ticket. To my surprise they send me a UPS shipping label they’re treating it as a warranty repair. Now I just need to get it custom packed and sent off. I’ll see you in 8-12 weeks OTA.



#14 PowellAstro

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 09:09 PM

That's good news!

#15 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 05:15 PM

I had a similar incident. I foolishly left my telescope in a trash compactor, and when I dragged it out it was a little wonky. Now there's an egg shell and a peach pit rattling around inside it, and yogurt comes out when I focus.. Any advice? Should I send it in? 



#16 Michael2

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 12:57 AM

I had a similar incident. I foolishly left my telescope in a trash compactor, and when I dragged it out it was a little wonky. Now there's an egg shell and a peach pit rattling around inside it, and yogurt comes out when I focus.. Any advice? Should I send it in? 

 

Sounds like Warranty claim to me.  :waytogo:

 

Michael.



#17 mclewis1

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 05:40 PM

I had a similar incident. I foolishly left my telescope in a trash compactor, and when I dragged it out it was a little wonky. Now there's an egg shell and a peach pit rattling around inside it, and yogurt comes out when I focus.. Any advice? Should I send it in? 

Nope, just keep it and complain about it whenever you get an opportunity.  :gaah:

  :what:



#18 pgandy

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 06:36 PM

OMG.  That fact that it isn't a pile of twisted metal and shattered glass is simply amazing considering what damage even just a UPS guy can do to one of these things.  I'm afraid that you really should bit the bullet and send it in.  That way, even though it will take while, you will get back a scope that will really work as it should and I would really not want those scratches on the lenses.

 

 

UPS?....uh oh. New C11 EdgeHD in transit.


Edited by pgandy, 10 September 2015 - 06:37 PM.


#19 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 08:39 PM

I had a similar incident. I foolishly left my telescope in a trash compactor, and when I dragged it out it was a little wonky. Now there's an egg shell and a peach pit rattling around inside it, and yogurt comes out when I focus.. Any advice? Should I send it in? 

 

Joe:

 

Does it actually make yogurt or is it just residual yogurt from the trash compactor?

 

Jon

 

P.S.  Glad JoeR is getting his scope fixed..A little levity is called for.



#20 Sarkikos

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 05:57 AM

 

I had a similar incident. I foolishly left my telescope in a trash compactor, and when I dragged it out it was a little wonky. Now there's an egg shell and a peach pit rattling around inside it, and yogurt comes out when I focus.. Any advice? Should I send it in? 

Nope, just keep it and complain about it whenever you get an opportunity.  :gaah:

  :what:

 

 

I know some folks who would take that option ...  :ohmy:

 

Mike



#21 JoeR

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 04:40 PM

She's baaaaaack! I spoke with the Celestron tech after inspection and we agreed it was better to replace the lenses with a new set since there was a couple small scratches and dings on the old ones. So not a warranty repair but still worth it. In addition they also completely disassembled the OTA, cleaned and re-greased everything, then re-aligned and collimated the mirrors with their machines. It came back sooner than anticipated, Celestron said they are now working to expedite their repairs much faster than in the past. I should have clear skies tomorrow night to mount it and take it for a spin.

 

The new lenses in place with the new spacer and retainer ring:

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  • lenses.jpg
  • rear.jpg


#22 JoeR

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 04:42 PM

Ahhh there is nothing like a perfectly clean and spotless corrector plate that passes the flashlight test.  Like that new car smell you wish it would last, but you know it won't stay that way for long.

 

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#23 EFT

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 04:44 PM

That's great news! :whee:



#24 Bill Barlow

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 05:03 PM

Joe, let us know how it performs visually under the night sky after the Celestron tune-up.

 

Bill



#25 gdd

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 05:21 PM

Are you going to get a padded box for the repaired OTA?

Gale


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