Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

LOA 21 3D Observing

  • Please log in to reply
210 replies to this topic

#1 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 06 September 2015 - 07:51 PM

9/5/2015  9PM-1AM 9/6/2015 Observing w/ LOA 21's3D (21mm 65 AFOV) w/ Denk II 3x3 powerswitch and Multipurpose A45 OCS and 17.5" f4.1 Discovery Split Tube (no paracorr II, and uncollimated), plus Orion ST80 and 24mm 68AFOV Panoptics finder.  Due to the Multipurpose OCS and extender I needed to remove my Astrocrumb filter slide with Denk adapter (being mostly in LL powerswitch mode) so no filters tonight.  I'll start with my most favorites and finish with my least favorites (Not in order observed).

 

*C14 (NGC869/884) Double Cluster this may be the first time I've seen both clusters in same view in binoviewers (due to the wide multipurpose OCS and LL reducer 0.8x barlow effect).  The 3D was apparent although clusters were at 1:30 and 7:30 o'clock positions (not left right).  Could not see color in stars like I usually do with single 20mm 100 AFOV eyepiece; but it was nice seeing the 3D effect, and I could move the central star between both clusters fore and aft.

 

*M31/M32 (but not M110) Andromeda Galaxies these were in same view at 11PM and 5PM o'clock positions, but to control the 3D I had to place one at the center (other out of FOV) and I could make the galaxy move from foreground to background.

 

*C13(NGC457) Owl Cluster looked great in 3D with eye either forward or aft of rest of owl body/wings.

 

*M27 Dumbell also looked great being either in front of behind background stars.  Wished I would have been able to use my filters which were now dewed up from being removed from scope.

 

*Gamma Cygni region - Excellent 3D effect with numerous milkyway stars very obvious 3D.

 

*M13 Hercules looked good but I didn't notice 3D effect?

 

*M92 Looked good but I didn't notice the 3D effect?

 

*M57 Ring looked OK w/o filters but I did not notice 3D effect?

 

*M103 could not see 3D effect?

 

*HT97(CR399) Coathanger - only hook was in FOV but I believe I did get some 3D effect.  Able to pan the handle, but could not see the DSO in the hanger.

 

*C10(NGC663) did not look as impressive in binoviewers as single eyepiece memory.  Could not see 3D effect?

 

*Alcor/Mizar first object looked at split one but not the other, did not notice 3D effect?

 

*Alberio blue Gold looked good but no 3D effect?

 

*several other colored double stars no 3D effect?

 

*Epsilon Lyra (Double Double) - looked Good only in non 3D eyepiece could split .  Looked awful in 3D eyepiece could not split into 4 stars - very distorted possibly due to not colimating beforehand.  Higher powers witches did not help splitting?

 

*Things I looked for but did not see included M52, C34(NGC6960), C35(NGC4889), and C20(NGC7000).

 

When being out of focus on a star I could focus on the enlarged arrays (seeing corners of 3 of them not centered in the view possibly because not collimated.  I do not have tracking.

 

In the ST80 finder I was albe to see the following objects:

*C14 (NGC869/884) Double Cluster .

*M31but not M32/M110) Andromeda

*C13(NGC457) Owl Cluster two eyes only

*M27 Dumbell faint

*Gamma Cygni region 

*M13 Hercules 

*M92 ?

*Could not see M57 Ring 

*M103 ?

*HT97(CR399) Coathanger - actually looked better in the finder seing all of the coathanger!

*Could not see C10(NGC663) 

*Alcor/Mizar just two stars (not 3 nor 4)

*Alberio blue Gold low power but still able to see colors.

*several other double stars but no color

*Epsilon Lyra (Double Double) - just 2 stars not 4.

*Things I looked for but did not see included M52, C34(NGC6960), C35(NGC4889), and C20(NGC7000) - I was hoping.

 

Ken A.


  • denis0007dl and Charlespl like this

#2 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 06 September 2015 - 07:55 PM

Next time I will have to try the higher power Newtonian OCS where I can use the astrcrumb filter slide for all 3x3=9 power switch positions.  I wonder if the low power Multipurpose OCS and reducer power swith (0.8x barlow equivalent) may have reduced the 3D effect.  Unsure since this was my first use of LOA21 3D.


  • Denkmeier,Inc. likes this

#3 Oscar56

Oscar56

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1106
  • Joined: 25 Jan 2013
  • Loc: Summerland, BC

Posted 07 September 2015 - 02:30 PM

How dark was your skY?

#4 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 07 September 2015 - 03:12 PM

9/6/2015  10:30PM-1AM 9/7/2015 Observing w/ LOA 21's3D (21mm 65 AFOV) w/ Denk II 3x3 powerswitch and Newtonian OCS and 17.5" f4.1 Discovery Split Tube (no paracorr II, and uncollimated), plus Orion ST80 and 24mm 68AFOV Panoptics finder.  With Newtonian OCS and no extender I can use my Astrocrumb filter slide with Denk adapter for all nine power switch positions.  Once again, I'll start with my most favorites and finish with my least favorites (Not in order observed).  Sky was darker/clearer and neighbor had less lights on, and less cars coming and going (since previous night they were celebrating a BD party).

 

*M39 very bright looked totally awsome with many layers of 3D (probably all 6 noticable at same time).  Filled up the entire view and felt like you were there!  Interesting to change center view from near to far - very noticable change all around.  I don't have tracking so letting the object drift and focusing on a select star in the mid horizon you can notice it change depths as it crosses on and off the 3 mid (position) horizontal arrarys.

 

*M11 Wild Duck more stars than just the filled diamond and bright central star.  Looked great at lowest LL power and even better as power was increased to MH with both power switch arms out.  The higher power filled the view, and the more the view was filled the more noticable the 3D effect became.  It was nice being able to control if the bright star wass in the foreground or background.  Without tracking I let the bright central star drift and watched it change depths as it crosses on and off the 3 mid (position) horizontal arrarys.

*C14 (NGC869/884) Double Cluster not as great as yesterday since both clusters were on the edge with 20% cropped now (with the higher power Newtonian OCS and LL reducer 1.0x barlow effect now).  The 3D was very apparent at higher power.  Individual clusters both looked good at higher power.  Nice seeing the 3D effect, and I could move the central star between both clusters fore and aft.

*M31/M32 (but not M110) Andromeda Galaxies these were in same view at 11PM and 5PM o'clock positions, but to control the 3D I had to place one at the center (other out of FOV) and I could make the galaxy move from foreground to background.  With darker skies both galaxies looked better than yesterday, but could still not see/find M110.

 

*M27 Dumbell also looked great in the higher power and filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.  There is a new benefit of skyglow allowing more stars through with the LOA 21 3D effect.

*M13 Hercules looked excellent at higher power Newtonian OCS, and I could fill the view with powerswitches, so 3D effect was very noticable.  With the center forward it looked more like the globular sphere it really is, which I preferred.  With center aft it had a concave appearance.

*M92 smaller and more compact than M13, but still looked excellent at higher power Newtonian OCS, and I could enlarge view with powerswitches, so 3D effect was very noticable.  With the center forward it looked more like the globular sphere it really is, which I preferred.  With center aft it had a concave appearance.

*M57 Ring looked great at higher power and with filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.

 

*M24 star cloud (galaxy window) looked good in 3D with numerous stars even through near the horizon haze.

 

*M22 looked good with higher power Newtonian OCS, and I could fill the view with powerswitches, but it was near horizon in haze so 3D effect was less noticable.  

 

*M92 smaller and more compact than M22, also looked good but being near horizon have made 3D effect less noticable.

 

*M8 Lagoon looked good with filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow best for 3D, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.  The open cluster NGC 6530 greatly helped bring out the 3D effect, and skyglow allowed Nebula to nicely glow also.  Wish this object was not so close to the horizon in the haze, otherwise it would have been truely awsome at the top of the list.

 

*M52 dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5".  Looked good in 3D, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

 

*M17 Swan looked OK near the horizon in haze with filters (OIII good but no 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow best for 3D, Unfiltered almost not visible-worst).  Wish this object was not so close to the horizon in the haze, otherwise it would have been great near top of the list.

 

*M29 also dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5".  Looked OK in 3D due to the milky way behind it, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

 

*Fairy Ring (Cygnus)  colored doubles in a ring had a nice 3D effect.  Surprized it was able to fit in the FOV evan at Newtonian OCS LL power.

*Things I looked for but did not see included M110, M33, C15(NGC6825), C34(NGC6960), C35(NGC4889), and C20(NGC7000), M20/M21.  M20/21 (& M8) were very close to horizon haze.  Either last night or the night before I also looked for M51 but couldn't see/find it.

In the ST80 finder I was able to see the following objects:

*M39

*M11 Wild Duck

*C14 (NGC869/884) Double Cluster

*M31/M32(but not M110) Andromeda Galaxies.  M32 appear like a dim fuzzy star in center (when I knew it was centered in my Dob).

*M27 Dumbell small fuzzy

*M13 Hercules

*M92 samller and dimmer than M13

*Could not see M57 Ring too small (w/o filter)

*M24 star cloud (galaxy window) dim near the horizon haze.

*M22 

*M92 smaller/dimmer and more compact than M22.  I may not have seen this in the ST-80 finder.

*M8 Lagoon open cluster NGC 6530.  Cluster/stars visible, but nebula not noticable near horizon in haze.

*M52 dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5".  Hooray for ST-80, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

*M17 Swan dim near the horizon in haze.

*M29 also dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5". Hooray for ST-80, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

*Fairy Ring (Cygnus)

*Things I looked for but did not see included M110, M33, C15(NGC6825), C34(NGC6960), C35(NGC4889), and C20(NGC7000), M20/M21.  M20/21 (& M8) were very close to horizon haze.  Either last night or the night before I also looked for M51 but couldn't see/find it.

 

Ken A.



#5 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 07 September 2015 - 03:14 PM

How dark was your skY?

Two nights ago the neighbors had their garage lights on and cars were coming and going for a BD party.  Last night was pretty good with garage lights off.  I can no longer see milkyway from my subdivision (unless there is a blackout), but I can see the Milkyway driving 20min to darker sky sites.



#6 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10529
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:17 AM

9/6/2015  10:30PM-1AM 9/7/2015 Observing w/ LOA 21's3D (21mm 65 AFOV) w/ Denk II 3x3 powerswitch and Newtonian OCS and 17.5" f4.1 Discovery Split Tube (no paracorr II, and uncollimated), plus Orion ST80 and 24mm 68AFOV Panoptics finder.  With Newtonian OCS and no extender I can use my Astrocrumb filter slide with Denk adapter for all nine power switch positions.  Once again, I'll start with my most favorites and finish with my least favorites (Not in order observed).  Sky was darker/clearer and neighbor had less lights on, and less cars coming and going (since previous night they were celebrating a BD party).

 

*M39 very bright looked totally awsome with many layers of 3D (probably all 6 noticable at same time).  Filled up the entire view and felt like you were there!  Interesting to change center view from near to far - very noticable change all around.  I don't have tracking so letting the object drift and focusing on a select star in the mid horizon you can notice it change depths as it crosses on and off the 3 mid (position) horizontal arrarys.

 

*M11 Wild Duck more stars than just the filled diamond and bright central star.  Looked great at lowest LL power and even better as power was increased to MH with both power switch arms out.  The higher power filled the view, and the more the view was filled the more noticable the 3D effect became.  It was nice being able to control if the bright star wass in the foreground or background.  Without tracking I let the bright central star drift and watched it change depths as it crosses on and off the 3 mid (position) horizontal arrarys.

*C14 (NGC869/884) Double Cluster not as great as yesterday since both clusters were on the edge with 20% cropped now (with the higher power Newtonian OCS and LL reducer 1.0x barlow effect now).  The 3D was very apparent at higher power.  Individual clusters both looked good at higher power.  Nice seeing the 3D effect, and I could move the central star between both clusters fore and aft.

*M31/M32 (but not M110) Andromeda Galaxies these were in same view at 11PM and 5PM o'clock positions, but to control the 3D I had to place one at the center (other out of FOV) and I could make the galaxy move from foreground to background.  With darker skies both galaxies looked better than yesterday, but could still not see/find M110.

 

*M27 Dumbell also looked great in the higher power and filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.  There is a new benefit of skyglow allowing more stars through with the LOA 21 3D effect.

*M13 Hercules looked excellent at higher power Newtonian OCS, and I could fill the view with powerswitches, so 3D effect was very noticable.  With the center forward it looked more like the globular sphere it really is, which I preferred.  With center aft it had a concave appearance.

*M92 smaller and more compact than M13, but still looked excellent at higher power Newtonian OCS, and I could enlarge view with powerswitches, so 3D effect was very noticable.  With the center forward it looked more like the globular sphere it really is, which I preferred.  With center aft it had a concave appearance.

*M57 Ring looked great at higher power and with filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.

 

*M24 star cloud (galaxy window) looked good in 3D with numerous stars even through near the horizon haze.

 

*M22 looked good with higher power Newtonian OCS, and I could fill the view with powerswitches, but it was near horizon in haze so 3D effect was less noticable.  

 

*M92 smaller and more compact than M22, also looked good but being near horizon have made 3D effect less noticable.

 

*M8 Lagoon looked good with filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow best for 3D, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.  The open cluster NGC 6530 greatly helped bring out the 3D effect, and skyglow allowed Nebula to nicely glow also.  Wish this object was not so close to the horizon in the haze, otherwise it would have been truely awsome at the top of the list.

 

*M52 dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5".  Looked good in 3D, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

 

*M17 Swan looked OK near the horizon in haze with filters (OIII good but no 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow best for 3D, Unfiltered almost not visible-worst).  Wish this object was not so close to the horizon in the haze, otherwise it would have been great near top of the list.

 

*M29 also dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5".  Looked OK in 3D due to the milky way behind it, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

 

*Fairy Ring (Cygnus)  colored doubles in a ring had a nice 3D effect.  Surprized it was able to fit in the FOV evan at Newtonian OCS LL power.

*Things I looked for but did not see included M110, M33, C15(NGC6825), C34(NGC6960), C35(NGC4889), and C20(NGC7000), M20/M21.  M20/21 (& M8) were very close to horizon haze.  Either last night or the night before I also looked for M51 but couldn't see/find it.

In the ST80 finder I was able to see the following objects:

*M39

*M11 Wild Duck

*C14 (NGC869/884) Double Cluster

*M31/M32(but not M110) Andromeda Galaxies.  M32 appear like a dim fuzzy star in center (when I knew it was centered in my Dob).

*M27 Dumbell small fuzzy

*M13 Hercules

*M92 samller and dimmer than M13

*Could not see M57 Ring too small (w/o filter)

*M24 star cloud (galaxy window) dim near the horizon haze.

*M22 

*M92 smaller/dimmer and more compact than M22.  I may not have seen this in the ST-80 finder.

*M8 Lagoon open cluster NGC 6530.  Cluster/stars visible, but nebula not noticable near horizon in haze.

*M52 dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5".  Hooray for ST-80, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

*M17 Swan dim near the horizon in haze.

*M29 also dark enough to see in the ST-80 that I actually found it for my 17.5". Hooray for ST-80, and glad I actually found it again from my home.

*Fairy Ring (Cygnus)

*Things I looked for but did not see included M110, M33, C15(NGC6825), C34(NGC6960), C35(NGC4889), and C20(NGC7000), M20/M21.  M20/21 (& M8) were very close to horizon haze.  Either last night or the night before I also looked for M51 but couldn't see/find it.

 

Ken A.

Nice report, lot's to keep you busy with that list. I'll be using your list as a guide when and if it ever clears up! Have my LOA's for 5 days so far and have not had and good skies. Same weather prdiction for the rest of the week. Pretty soon the moon will be making it's cycle again. :bawling:



#7 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 13 September 2015 - 01:20 AM

Sat 9/12/2015 10:30PM - 12:30 AM Sun 9/13/2015 Observing with LOA21 3D in club Orion 100mm 90 deg binos from my driveway.  Able to aim binos at zenith and observe easily sitting down, but when not at zenith I had to kneel or stand. Without having a finder made it a challenge finding objects especially near zenith.  Quit when clouds came in.

Objects in order that I looked at:

 

M27 unfiltered - planetary nebula looked good in 3D with numerous stars in background.

 

CR399 Coathanger  entirely fit with no margin.  Different seeing the coathanger in 3D.

 

CC31 (B142-B143) Bernards E - Could definitely get see dark region surrounded by brighter outer region, but could not make out ab E shape (appeared more rectangular in shape with non distinct boundaries).

 

Also scanned the Sagitarius region and above (to the clouds), and looked for but didn't see/find North American in Cyngus nor the Ring in Lrya, both in passing bholes in the clouds.



#8 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10529
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:21 AM

I will start tonight with finally clear skies and I'll also try out my C102 with the LOA's. I don't need an OCS or a barlow in that scope to get focus, so will have some wider views.



#9 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 13 September 2015 - 11:13 AM

I will start tonight with finally clear skies and I'll also try out my C102 with the LOA's. I don't need an OCS or a barlow in that scope to get focus, so will have some wider views.

Hope you have good weather tonight!


  • REC likes this

#10 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10529
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 14 September 2015 - 02:08 PM

Well the weather finally cleared up and I took my 10" Dob out and the Denk. P/S with the LOA's. I set up the scope in my yard so I could get a clear view the Sagittarius region. I was somewhat over my neighbors house and I was hoping the currents off the roof where not too bad. It was cooling down fast and into the 60's by 9pm. At first I was just browsing the area for DSO's and getting myself familiar with the Denk and Power Switch setting for best focus. I had both arms out and tried to get some stars sharp after focusing the right LOA first and then the standard EP on the left. I had it set to N for near as it was facing me. I think that was to be the most popular setting to get a nebula floating in front of the background stars?  I was just pointing over the Teapot with my laser finder to get in the general area and put in the low power arm first. I should have taken out a pair of binoculars to help aid finding some of the fuzzballs or switched out the laser for my 8x50 finder scope. Another reason to add a finder shoe on the scope so I can use both.

 

Anyway, first up where a few Globs and they where a little small in the low power setting, so pulled out both arms for about 115x I think? Always get confused at to what focal length I'm at with the OCS in place. Have to go back and read my notes, but I think it's around f/2400 at the 2x setting. I was having some issues hetting the stars really sharp at this setting. I kept fiddling with the focuser in and out. When I went back to the lower setting it seems the stars where sharper. I don't know, now that I'm writing this, perhaps it was the heat currents if there that where effecting the fine focus to get really pinpoint stars?

 

The first really good cluster was M6 the Butterfly cluster. This really popped at the low setting and I could see some of the 3D effect that others are reporting! I imediately thought of the first video I was of the LOA's by Russ and the observer was saying he was "swimming" in stars! Very cool for sure. Next up was M17, the Swan nebula. The view was pretty awesome and the nebula really appeared to float in front of the stars. I'm not sure if I was seeing the head part of the Swan, but the body was pretty bright. I didn't bring my nebula filter out this first night and will when I use my C8 when I have the Goto finding the objects for me instead of hunting them down manually with the Dob. Then, just as I was admiring the view.....bamm! the neighbor down the street turned on her back porch and it was right in my line of sight! Bye, bye night vision! So, I had to point the scope away and went up to look at M57 for a bit. I tried it in low and medium power and the most pleasing for me was the low power setting for 75x. I was a little tough to see comfortable at Zenith with the way I had my chair set-up. Next time I'll use a higher chair.

 

Anyway, I went back in side for a bit, hoping that they would turn off the lights, but no luck. When I went back out, everything was soaking wet from due and I forgot to hook up the back fan in my excitement to get out for the first time.

 

Tonight the sky is going to be a perfect 5/5 according to my Clear Sky Chart. I have never seen that chart show all dark blue squares before, usually the culprit is the seeing square. I'm going to get my 9' patio umbrella out in case they turn on the light again. I lie it on it's side and view behind it. It helps some, but every else around me it lit up on the ground. So more to learn about them and what targets look best and also what Power Arm to use with each target. So, glad I finally got a clear night and we will have another few before the moon pops out and starts it's cycle tonight. Maybe check out Saturn too with the seeing being so good.

 

Clear skies all :)

 

-Bob



#11 Jeff B

Jeff B

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5216
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2006

Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:45 PM

Had a quick session with mine the other night under my moderately light polluted skies using my TEC 200ED and Denk II's with the OCS and power switch.

 

These things work!  M11 was 3D, I did notice the "sunken living room" or "table top" effects (depending on the near or far position) but they did not bother me.  M13 was indeed a ball, even more so than than normal and, like it seems everyone else, I liked it in the "near" setting.

 

The Ring and the Dumbell were really cool.  I couldn't really decide which setting I liked the best.

 

I did a fair amount of experimenting rotating the array.  There seemed to be a position where the object in the center would rather quickly transition from near to far or vice-versa.  Interesting.

 

Some have noted that the array eyepiece was not as sharp as the non-array eyepiece.  I specifically looked for this and could not see a difference really, even when positioning Saturn on the array.  In the day light I could see the stickum Russ uses to attach the array but I could detect no aberrations associated  its use.  Examining the double/double at high magnification showed no disturbance by the array in the airy pattern in or out of focus that I could detect.  But it was really cool to see one pair in front of the other.  

 

I did notice that when rotating the array, I did have to subtly refocus the array at times and there seemed to be a sweet spot or two in the rotation where everything would gel.    

 

I also noticed that "double star" effect when a star was on the edge of the array.  It was most visible if I looked right at it, less so in my peripheral vision.  I found myself ignoring it after a while as I was enjoying myself (kinda like CA in an achromat for me) or I'd simply tweak the array position a bit.  It was no big deal for me.

 

I found I used only the low (109X) and mid (157X) power settings for the vast majority of the session, only using high power (~250X) for the double/double.  

 

The big TEC is only "bino-friendly" with the Denk diagonal that can use the dovetail feature and only with the Denk II's (not the Trons).  That would be ~87x and I'll have to try that configuration with the LOA's later.

 

Tomorrow night I'm taking them out to the big boy (11" F12 D&G) under dark skies.  That should be a treat.  I want to see if they play nice with the CA and Chromacors. The big boy is bino-friendly too.

 

Jeff


Edited by Jeff B, 14 September 2015 - 03:48 PM.

  • LFORLEESEE likes this

#12 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 14 September 2015 - 06:26 PM

REC/Bob & Jeff B., Nice Reports.

 

Lower power is always clearer than Higher Power; but higher power increases star separation and globular star clusters look so much better at higher power with so many more noticeable individual stars and the globular filling more of the view.

 

I used to invite the neighbors over to get them to turn off the lights.  Now one neighbor perminently has a light aimed at their front door, so I feel your pain.

 

Focusing on stars in the 3D array eyepiece is more fuzzy than the 2D non-array eypiece.  I will have to try double double with higher power OCS to get more separation.

 

Here's to clear skies.

 

Ken



#13 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10529
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 15 September 2015 - 10:29 AM

LOA Second night out with great skies 5/5. 10" Dob with Denk II P/S.

 

Still focused mainly in the SW Sagittarius region chock filled with DSO's. Because the transparency was so great, the Milky Way was easily visible from the SW all the way up to the Cygnus area. I was mainly working with the low power arm in for widest FOV at 75x.

 

M25 and M21 open clusters looked great and had some 3D effect with lot's of stars filling the field.

 

The next object was one of the stars, standout for the night. M20, The Trifid nebula. Foe some reason, I have always had trouble with this one. I get that little star cluster to the right of the nebula that looks like a six on a dice, but the nebula has always been kind of dim. Well, that was not the case last night. Maybe it was because of the perfect transparency, but it really stood out. It was huge and could see all 3 of the lobes. And it was floating among the star field as well. I have never really used a nebula filter on a BV before except for some really bright ones like M42. Guess I thought they would dim the view even more in use with a BV. Well I went and attached my NPB filter to the end of the OCS. Maybe it added more nebula, but made the overall view dimmer and I think I liked it without because o. the star cluster that was in the view.

 

I did use it on M57 the Ring nebula a it did darken the view, but made the smoke ring stand out pretty well. I then tried it on a higher magnification at 115x and it made it even darker. I'll have to go revisit that again.

 

So while I was in that region of the sky, I tried the double double star. I couldn't split it at 75x, so tried it at 115 x. Now I was have a problem keeping the 4 stars sharp. I kept fiddling with the focuser and tried moving the stars around in the array. Was not happy with the view, they where not sharp enough as I would like them to be. I tried Alberio as well and at low power they where pretty....but it seems they should have been sharper?

 

Anyway, over to Cygnus and M29, just great. While I was I was there, I panned around the area and just got lost in a sea of stars and in 3d as well. I could spend the whole night on just two constellations, Cygnus and Sagittarius with such a rich star studded region.

 

For the last item for the night it was M13 riding high in the sky. At 75x it filled the FOV and I was stunned! The more I looked at it and using averted vision which is a habit of mine on that object from my mono days, the more I could resolve the stars going into the core.  I tried it at 115x and although it dimmed the overall view, Once I let my eyes settle in and throw a shirt over my head to keep the view dark, it started to come together. I was by far, the finest view I have ever had om M13!

 

As I was shutting down and thinking how great M13 was it dawned on me. You forgot the other great glob, M22 you dummy! So guess what will be the first target tonight! It's supposed to be good tonight again, so if it's anywhere close to last night I'll be a happy camper. :)

 

Clear skies all -Bob


  • rockethead26 and denis0007dl like this

#14 beatlejuice

beatlejuice

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2627
  • Joined: 05 Apr 2011
  • Loc: Hamilton, ON,Canada

Posted 15 September 2015 - 01:46 PM

WOW!  what a difference a moderately dark sky makes.   My first experience with the XT10 was cloud shortened with an SQM reading of 20.0.   Last night I went a little further from the city with an SQM reading of 20.7 darkening to 20.9 as the night went on.

 

M23 was my first target as I was pretty sure from past mono views that it would be a great candidate for the LOA’s.   I was not disappointed.   I was easily able to see multiple levels of depth for a spellbinding 3D view at both Far and Near at all 3 power switch positions.  But I liked low power best at the Near position.

 

M22 was next and because of its loose nature and with lots of field stars it falls off nicely around the edges to created a stunning effect even at low power.  

I find that you just can’t take this effect in on a quick look.  I find it most rewarding to carefully take in the view in a non-rushed fashion often spending 15-20 minutes on any particular object going from Near to Far and at all 3 powers.

 

Next was the M24 star cloud.   This is the type of crowded field that can keep you mesmerized for quite a long time as you slowly move the scope around the field.  Then there is NGC 6603 the tiny dim open cluster that looks at first glance in 2D like it belongs right there in the star cloud.   With the LOA’s on Near, it floats in front of the rest of the field like the true separate object that it is.   Better yet, put LOA’s on Far and it is like you are looking past the star cloud at NGC 6603 in the distance the way it really is.   You have to view this in 3D if you haven’t yet!

 

M11 has gotten some mixed reviews by some as it seems to have a kind of artificial look about it.   I noticed this myself in the Near position but when I put the LOA’s in the Far position I found the view much more pleasing at all 3 powers.  I put the brightest star near the center of the cluster in the middle of the FOV and this worked wonders for me at the FAR position.

 

NGC7789.  Same idea as M11.   It seems to me that these smaller dense open clusters are best viewed in the FAR position.   And a wonderful view it was with a preference to mid and high power on this one.

 

Double Cluster.   This is another candidate for a cruise around the field from one to the other at all 3 powers Near & Far.   In fact I even found the view of the sparse area between the clusters in the FAR position interesting as there were just enough stars around the periphery to create a kind of 3D void effect.

 

M52 in general the same idea as M11 & NGC7789 although it was a little more pleasing in the NEAR position than the other 2.

 

M31 didn’t really show me anything but when I went to M110 there was a very subtle effect of floating in front of the field stars in a similar way to M27 which I viewed earlier in the evening.  Of course the floating effect was spectacular on M27 but I get the feeling that under a really dark sky M110 might come close to matching M27 in the effect that it presents.

 

M13.  I studied this wonerful glob in all ways possible and although the views were pleasing I just could not get the same effect that I found with M22.   I think I need a higher power than is available with the 21’s in my scope (about x180) so that it can fill
the field more.  Or maybe in a really dark sky there would be more field stars visible.

 

M34.  Very similar to my experience with M52 although I could not decide whether I liked the view better either NEAR or FAR. 

 

A quick look at M37 before packing up.  It was low in the sky and I was too tired to concentrate on the view for very long.   This will get a much more thorough going over later in the year.

 

I spent a lot of time on almost all of these objects and found that I really did not have much trouble focusing with the LOA’s as some have mentioned.  The only trouble was at high power and this was mainly due to the seeing conditions which were average.
I seldom saw the double star artifact but when I did I just moved the field a touch but even then I didn’t really find it necessary to enjoy the view.

 

These eyepieces are truly keepers and I have only just begun.

 

Eric


  • crazyqban likes this

#15 Jeff B

Jeff B

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5216
  • Joined: 30 Dec 2006

Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:37 PM

Well my friend Brendan (also a CN member) and I spent a simply spectacular evening out at our dark sky site (Rachel Hutzel Observatory at Camp Joy in Warren County Ohio).  We were blessed with exceptionally clear, steady, low humidity skies for the entire time until I packed it in around 12:30.   We used the big boy (11" F12 D&G) at full aperture with the optimum Chromacor and Brendans highly modified C8 (which has excellent optics).  We each used our Denk binoviewers, sans OCS/power switch for the D&G but with the power switch with the C8.

 

And the seeing was indeed excellent.  We could get a nice airy disk for extended periods with the 11", which around here is highly unusual.  The Milky Way overhead was bold with many dark lanes and that decidedly course/grainy texture, almost on the verge of resolution that happens when everything lines up right.  NO DEW! 

 

We spent almost the whole evening using just the LOA set up it both scopes because we were having soooooo much FUN with it.  Yeah we noticed some of the array artifacts others and myself have mentioned but we ignored them as we were just having a BLAST with them.  When you get two very experienced observers, who've become a bit jaded and a bit bored with some objects, giggling and laughing with delight at this entirely new experience, well Russ is really onto something here. 

 

I'll not catalog each object viewed but rather I'm giving some of the more stand out impressions and site specific examples for those impressions.

 

Dark skies really matter.  The darker it got the more pronounced the effect.  Cases in point:  M11 and M13 were viewed early on.  M11 showing a nice 3D effect /near/far.  M13 also tended to stand out and we preferred the NEAR setting.  Cool.  We came back to these objects about an hour later and the difference was night and day.  M11 in particular was surrounded by heaps of stars and we could make the cluster look completely different, and almost unrecongizable, by mearly carefully panning and going between NEAR and FAR.  We could have stars flowing into a celestial sink hole (FAR) or flowing and cascading off of a plateau (NEAR).  In the NEAR setting M13 was much more pronounced and stood in bold relief to the background and at the higher magnification in the D&G, the cluster began to take on the look of a ball with a pronounced core.  The differences between the earlier viewing of these and other objects and when the skies were darker was striking..in an excellent way(!). 

 

Contrast and detail rendition seemed noticeably improved over "regular" bino-viewing.  Time and time again we noticed that when we put just about any globular cluster, nebula or galaxy in the NEAR mode, we felt there was just more to see and notice in that object.  Globulars and planetary nebula stood out much more, drawing our attention more and giving the impression of greater detail.  We could study them more directly as individual things when they stood out as individual things.  That was major cool.  Plus it was just more relaxing.  With the right magnification and position in the FOV, the Swan nebula took on a strong dimensional aspect with the tail of the swan closer and the head further away, like it was turning away from us.  But it stood out in great relief, allowing more structure and detail to be observed.  This was driven home on M31 with the C8 in focal reduction mode and in the LOA in the NEAR mode.  The almost stellar core had a bulge outward with the arms curving off to the side.  Yes the arms and dust lanes were much more visible, especially if we panned slightly.    I'm not sure why the brain was behaving this way but we both noticed it...and LIKED IT.  

 

Make your own star cluster.  Panning through the Milky Way with the D&G and the LOA in the NEAR mode allowed me to construct my very own star clusters that stood out from the background stars.  And as many as I wanted too!  That "table top" effect of the center array made this easy and depending on how you positioned the array, it was not square.   It's totally artificial but sooooo much fun(!).

 

With a well aligned drive system, that "double star" artifact was almost unnoticeable.  Especially in dense star fields and globulars at high powers.  The "doubles" were just other stars in the FOV.  The only way to really notice them was to open and close the eye with the array.  The "doubles" would wink in and out.  Kinda like the old optical "blink comparators" used to find Pluto or the new blink comparator software for imaging.  In the Nextar driven C8 there was a mild drift and as you watched over a period of time, you would see doubles slowly appear and disappear.  In the well aligned D&G, this was virtually unnoticed.

 

Who says you can't use them on planets!!    You can!  Well with Uranus and Neptune anyway.  Both were well placed (especially Uranus) and smaller with lower brightness.   I would set the array to NEAR and they would stand out against the background just like globulars and planetary (duh!) nebula.  And, again, it made them easier for me to study.  Very, very cool.

 

They are just flat out good eyepieces on their own.  I've already posted about this but I'm including it here as well.  Extremely comfortable, no black outs even when barlowing and very well made.  I'm waiting for the moon to try my "third".

 

The Denk power switch system works wonderfully with this system.  Eddgie has already written extensively about this but it bears repeating, especially for use with an SCT.

 

A fantastic outreach device:   The oohs and ahhhhhs that people exclaim during outreach event with even mono vision with increase by an order of magnitude.  We kept commenting on this last night.  If they can make us giggle, imagine how a newbie will react.  Of course bino-viewer use during any outreach event is highly selective for me.  I've found older kids most adults (about 12 and older) can follow instruction as to their use, especially if the crowd is smaller.  Also, these are very easy and comfortable eyepieces to use with basically no black outs which, IME, is key to bino-viewer use for outreach.

 

Finally..and the crowd goes wild...

 

They are a hoot and blast to use.  I'm really looking forward to trying them out on my other scopes and the club's 100mm bino-scope.  We had so much fun with these last night that I'm just waiting for them to be regulated or listed as a controlled substance.  They are just that much FUN.  It's like when I would get a new piece of really good high-end audio gear that would reveal new stuff and pleasures in old recordings and I'd rifle through all of my CDs and LPs basking in the new found wonders.  

 

Recommended.  HIGHLY recommended.  

 

Now how about a 28mm version Russ.

 

Jeff


Edited by Jeff B, 16 September 2015 - 12:39 PM.

  • 39.1N84.5W, BillP, crazyqban and 1 other like this

#16 crazyqban

crazyqban

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2551
  • Joined: 16 Dec 2008
  • Loc: Miami, Florida

Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:59 PM

.

Make your own star cluster.  Panning through the Milky Way with the D&G and the LOA in the NEAR mode allowed me to construct my very own star clusters that stood out from the background stars.  And as many as I wanted too!  That "table top" effect of the center array made this easy and depending on how you positioned the array, it was not square.   It's totally artificial but sooooo much fun(!).

 

Jeff

I didn't put a name on it but I was definitely doing this. Totally fun!!!



#17 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10529
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 16 September 2015 - 02:51 PM

Well my friend Brendan (also a CN member) and I spent a simply spectacular evening out at our dark sky site (Rachel Hutzel Observatory at Camp Joy in Warren County Ohio).  We were blessed with exceptionally clear, steady, low humidity skies for the entire time until I packed it in around 12:30.   We used the big boy (11" F12 D&G) at full aperture with the optimum Chromacor and Brendans highly modified C8 (which has excellent optics).  We each used our Denk binoviewers, sans OCS/power switch for the D&G but with the power switch with the C8.

 

And the seeing was indeed excellent.  We could get a nice airy disk for extended periods with the 11", which around here is highly unusual.  The Milky Way overhead was bold with many dark lanes and that decidedly course/grainy texture, almost on the verge of resolution that happens when everything lines up right.  NO DEW! 

 

We spent almost the whole evening using just the LOA set up it both scopes because we were having soooooo much FUN with it.  Yeah we noticed some of the array artifacts others and myself have mentioned but we ignored them as we were just having a BLAST with them.  When you get two very experienced observers, who've become a bit jaded and a bit bored with some objects, giggling and laughing with delight at this entirely new experience, well Russ is really onto something here. 

 

I'll not catalog each object viewed but rather I'm giving some of the more stand out impressions and site specific examples for those impressions.

 

Dark skies really matter.  The darker it got the more pronounced the effect.  Cases in point:  M11 and M13 were viewed early on.  M11 showing a nice 3D effect /near/far.  M13 also tended to stand out and we preferred the NEAR setting.  Cool.  We came back to these objects about an hour later and the difference was night and day.  M11 in particular was surrounded by heaps of stars and we could make the cluster look completely different, and almost unrecongizable, by mearly carefully panning and going between NEAR and FAR.  We could have stars flowing into a celestial sink hole (FAR) or flowing and cascading off of a plateau (NEAR).  In the NEAR setting M13 was much more pronounced and stood in bold relief to the background and at the higher magnification in the D&G, the cluster began to take on the look of a ball with a pronounced core.  The differences between the earlier viewing of these and other objects and when the skies were darker was striking..in an excellent way(!). 

 

Contrast and detail rendition seemed noticeably improved over "regular" bino-viewing.  Time and time again we noticed that when we put just about any globular cluster, nebula or galaxy in the NEAR mode, we felt there was just more to see and notice in that object.  Globulars and planetary nebula stood out much more, drawing our attention more and giving the impression of greater detail.  We could study them more directly as individual things when they stood out as individual things.  That was major cool.  Plus it was just more relaxing.  With the right magnification and position in the FOV, the Swan nebula took on a strong dimensional aspect with the tail of the swan closer and the head further away, like it was turning away from us.  But it stood out in great relief, allowing more structure and detail to be observed.  This was driven home on M31 with the C8 in focal reduction mode and in the LOA in the NEAR mode.  The almost stellar core had a bulge outward with the arms curving off to the side.  Yes the arms and dust lanes were much more visible, especially if we panned slightly.    I'm not sure why the brain was behaving this way but we both noticed it...and LIKED IT.  

 

Make your own star cluster.  Panning through the Milky Way with the D&G and the LOA in the NEAR mode allowed me to construct my very own star clusters that stood out from the background stars.  And as many as I wanted too!  That "table top" effect of the center array made this easy and depending on how you positioned the array, it was not square.   It's totally artificial but sooooo much fun(!).

 

With a well aligned drive system, that "double star" artifact was almost unnoticeable.  Especially in dense star fields and globulars at high powers.  The "doubles" were just other stars in the FOV.  The only way to really notice them was to open and close the eye with the array.  The "doubles" would wink in and out.  Kinda like the old optical "blink comparators" used to find Pluto or the new blink comparator software for imaging.  In the Nextar driven C8 there was a mild drift and as you watched over a period of time, you would see doubles slowly appear and disappear.  In the well aligned D&G, this was virtually unnoticed.

 

Who says you can't use them on planets!!    You can!  Well with Uranus and Neptune anyway.  Both were well placed (especially Uranus) and smaller with lower brightness.   I would set the array to NEAR and they would stand out against the background just like globulars and planetary (duh!) nebula.  And, again, it made them easier for me to study.  Very, very cool.

 

They are just flat out good eyepieces on their own.  I've already posted about this but I'm including it here as well.  Extremely comfortable, no black outs even when barlowing and very well made.  I'm waiting for the moon to try my "third".

 

The Denk power switch system works wonderfully with this system.  Eddgie has already written extensively about this but it bears repeating, especially for use with an SCT.

 

A fantastic outreach device:   The oohs and ahhhhhs that people exclaim during outreach event with even mono vision with increase by an order of magnitude.  We kept commenting on this last night.  If they can make us giggle, imagine how a newbie will react.  Of course bino-viewer use during any outreach event is highly selective for me.  I've found older kids most adults (about 12 and older) can follow instruction as to their use, especially if the crowd is smaller.  Also, these are very easy and comfortable eyepieces to use with basically no black outs which, IME, is key to bino-viewer use for outreach.

 

Finally..and the crowd goes wild...

 

They are a hoot and blast to use.  I'm really looking forward to trying them out on my other scopes and the club's 100mm bino-scope.  We had so much fun with these last night that I'm just waiting for them to be regulated or listed as a controlled substance.  They are just that much FUN.  It's like when I would get a new piece of really good high-end audio gear that would reveal new stuff and pleasures in old recordings and I'd rifle through all of my CDs and LPs basking in the new found wonders.  

 

Recommended.  HIGHLY recommended.  

 

Now how about a 28mm version Russ.

 

Jeff

That was an awesome review and explanation! I just started using mine this week and so far so good. I was using my 10" Dob and need to get my C-8 out next and try them out. I'll find a lot more targets with the Go-To scope and also check out Uranus.



#18 bcuddihee

bcuddihee

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2140
  • Joined: 04 Nov 2006
  • Loc: Cincinnati Ohio

Posted 16 September 2015 - 06:31 PM

Jeff, What a great summary of our shared experience with the LOA's last evening. Couldn't have said it better. These ep's are a real hoot to use. Pure entertainment! If you are wanting a somewhat " realistic or natural view", keep the magnification of the primary object to be viewed, to a point where it fits comfortably within the central array. This will create a view where that object floats above or below the surrounding star field. But what would be the fun in that! Crank up the image scale, pan a bit, and all sorts of crazy scenarios are present for your viewing pleasure. Watch clusters morph from a symmetrical view overhead to a cascade of stars falling into an abyss. Kind of like a Niagara Falls view from overhead! Lots of fun indeed. I also noticed the tendency to see more detail in extended objects. One of these being the Andromeda Galaxy. Typically I might give Andromeda a cursory look, but with the array in place, I swear I saw dust lanes where I simply didn't pick them up before. Also, stars that were in close proximity to the target,..seemed to be part of the object because they are seen on the same plane. This was clearly evident in viewing the Dumbell nebula. I don't really remember noticing these proximity stars much before, or simply...they didn't resonate with me. Now...yes they do! I can't wait to view M42, with these as I'm sure that the trap falling into a billowing cloud is going to be simply spectacular. I also agree that having a power switch is a great help in framing the object to your taste. Anyway, This is my take on these little gems and many thanks to Russ for having the vision to create yet another high quality and entertaining product.


  • 39.1N84.5W and LFORLEESEE like this

#19 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:59 PM

Mon 9/14/2015 9:30-11PM Observing with LOA21 3D in club Orion 100mm 90 deg binos from my driveway for second time under clear darker skies w/o neighbors lights on.  Able to aim binos at zenith (Lyra & Cygnus) and observe easily sitting down, but when not at zenith I had to stand leaning against my total trolley "ladder".  I will recommend my club aquire a red dot finder to aim and find objects finding objects especially near zenith.  No tracking on binos, but the low power did not have any noticable movement of objects besides initial vibration dampening,

Objects observed in no particular order:

 

*M8 Lagoon nebulae barely visible in binos w/o filters (even with dark sky apparel hood on), but the open cluster NGC 6530 inside it was very noticable.  Wish this object was not so close to the horizon in the haze, otherwise it would have been truely awsome at the top of the list.

*M21 visible, but not M20.

*M24 star cloud (galaxy window) looked excellent  in 3D with numerous layers of 3D.  Best view of evening!

*M18 easily observable.

*M17 Swan noticable but dim in binos w/o filters.

*M11 Wild Duck - I spent alot of time looking for this in binos (even got out my Vixen 2.3x40 to help see/find Scutum).  In binos the Wild Duck was a dim small square and I didn't really notice the bright central star as much; but I could make M11 move from foreground to background easily in 3D.

*M22 was bright, large, and looked good either in foreground or background 3D.

*M28 was dimmer and smaller than M22 but looked good.

*M13 was bright, large, and looked good either in foreground or background 3D.  Similar to M22.

*M57 Ring small but noticable in foreground or background bounded by the two of Lyra's outer paralleogram stars.  First time I observed this planetary nebula at such low power, and w/o filters.

*Summers other triangle with all 3 objects just out of margin view (i.e. had to slightly pan).  Alpha, Epsilon, and zeta Lrya two of which are double stars.

*Epsilon Lyra (Double Double) - only one double visible (two stars), not two double stars in binos.

*HT97(CR399) Coathanger  entirely fit with no margin.  Obvious 3D.  Did not see cluster near end.  Found by accident panning the sky/milkyway.

*C13(NGC457) Owl Cluster small but obvious owl body and open wings and two bright eyes one yellowish and one blueish.  First time I noticed blue eye.  Easily moved from foregrond to background in 3D.

*C14 (NGC869/884) Double Cluster dragon fly eyes and body looked great in 3D, and body easily directed pan to Stock 2 just outside of view.

*Stock 2 filled up the view and looked awsome in 3D.  I have never seen it look so good.  Easy pan using dragon fly body back to daragon fly eyes C14 double cluster.

*M31/M32 (but not M110) Andromeda Galaxies.  M31 looked large, bright, and great as expected.  M32 was a very small but noticable fuzzy star-like.  Searched for M110 but could not see/find it in 100mm aperture.
*C10(NGC663) did not look as impressive in binoviewers as single eyepiece memory.  Could not see 3D effect?

*C33(NGC6992/5) surprisingly I could see this faint supernova remnant (Eastern Viel), but I could not see it's sister C44 even looking right at the star it passes through.

 

*Things I looked for but did not see/find included M110, C34(NGC6960), C20(NGC7000) although possibly saw the 3 stars in a line near the bbrighter latin america but no nebula, M20, M16, M92, M103, C10(NGC663),and M56, nor Alberio (some I only briefly looked for since not having finder made it difficult to aim).

Ken A.



#20 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5578
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 17 September 2015 - 11:14 PM

9/17/2015  9:30-10:30PM Observing w/ LOA 21's3D (21mm 65 AFOV) w/ Denk II 3x3 powerswitch and Multiplier OCS and 17.5" f4.1 Discovery Split Tube (no paracorr II, and uncollimated), plus Orion ST80 and 24mm 68AFOV Panoptics finder.  With Multiplier OCS and no extender I can use my Astrocrumb filter slide with Denk adapter for all nine power switch positions just focusing (no need to pull out system from focuser for higher power, or push in for lowest power).  Not in any particular order (Not in order observed).  Sky was hazy and waxing crescent moon set before observing with telescope.

Initially I observed the waxing crescent moon with LOA21 3D in club Orion 100mm 90 deg binos before it set.

 

THINGS OBSERVED IN DENK II BINOVIEWERS:

*M8 Lagoon looked good with and without filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow best for 3D, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.  The open cluster NGC 6530 greatly helped bring out the 3D effect, and skyglow allowed Nebula to nicely glow also.  Filled the view even in LL powerswithc with Multipler OCS.
*M21 visilble, but M20 was not.
*M24 star cloud (galaxy window) looked good in 3D with numerous stars; but the Multiplier power swith was too much power even in LL powerswitch mode and required panning at least 2 field of views.
*M18 very visilble
*M17 Swan looked excellent with and without filters (OIII good but no 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow best for 3D, Unfiltered).  Once again LL, LM,LH, ML, MM, MH powerswitch modes were clearer; and HL, HM, and HH powers were just too much and stars became too fuzzy.

*M11 Wild Duck looked great in LL, LM,LH, ML, MM, MH powerswicth modes in 3D; but HL, HM, and HH powers were just too much and stars became too fuzzy.   The cluster looked great like a filled diamond with bright central star.  Ml or MM probably looked best as a large clear compromise..  It was nice being able to control if the bright star was in the foreground or background.

*M13 Hercules looked excellent at higher power Multiplier OCS, and I could fill the view with powerswitches, so 3D effect was very noticable.  With the center forward it looked more like the globular sphere it really is, which I preferred.   Looked great in LL, LM,LH, ML, MM, MH powerswicth modes in 3D; but HL, HM, and HH powers were just too much and stars became too fuzzy.

*M22 looked good with higher power Multiplier OCS, and I could fill the view with powerswitches, but it was near horizon in haze so 3D effect was less noticable. Once again LL, LM,LH, ML, MM, MH powerswitch modes were clearer; and HL, HM, and HH powers were just too much and stars became too fuzzy. 

*M57 Ring looked great at higher power Multiplier OCS at LL powerswitch and with filters (OIII dark and less 3D effect due to less stars, Ultrablock, Skyglow, Unfiltered), being either in front of behind background stars.  Skyglow or Unfiltered required to have enough stars for 3D effect.  Higher powerswith positions reduced the numer of stars in view so 3D effect was lessend with power.

*M51 NGC5194 dim with secondary NGC5195 galaxy even dimmer.

*Summers other triangle with all 3 objects just out of margin view (i.e. had to slightly pan).  Alpha, Epsilon, and zeta Lrya two of which are double stars.
*Epsilon Lyra (Double Double) - only one double visible (two stars), not two double stars in binos.  Best clearest in LL powerswitch mode.  all other higher power just increased seperation of the primary double; but even HH could not split each double into the the double double pairs and just made it fuzzier.  Note the HH power put the primary doubles near the edge of view.

*Summers other triangle had to pan alot even in LL powerswitch mode with Multiplier OCS.  Alpha, Epsilon, and zeta Lrya two of which are double stars.

*Alberio ble gold binary looked good in LL powerswitch

*Things I looked for but did not see/find in DENK II included M20.  M28 (car in the way), M92, M81/M82 (tree in the way, low to horizon).  

 

In the ST80 finder with 24mm Panoptic eyepiece, I was able to see the following objects:

*M8 Lagoon & open cluster NGC 6530 looked good even w/o filters.
*M24 star cloud (galaxy window) all within TFOV.
*M17 Swan dim unfiltered,
*M11 Wild Duck easily found , bright.
*M13 Hercules looked good, large and bright.
*M22 looked good, large and bright.
*Summers other triangle looked good and fit all 3 objects within TFOV.  Alpha, Epsilon, and zeta Lrya two of which are double stars.  Epsilon Lyra (Double Double) - only one double visible (two stars), not two double stars in binos.
*Alberio bright gold and dimmer blue binary pair.

Things I looked for but did not see in ST-80 finder included:

M20/M21, M18, M57, M51, M81/M82. M92, M28.

 

Initially I Observed Waxing Crescent with LOA21 3D in club Orion 100mm 90 deg binos:

*Waxing cresent moon - Looked poor in right 3D eyepiece withone or two arcs of light just outboard of cresent limb of moon.  This is a result of the arrays.  The left non 3D eyepiece was clear.  Surprisiingly I didn't notice a 3D effect in the arrays; neither near nor far?
*M8 Lagoon nebulae barely visible in binos w/o filters (even with dark sky apparel hood on), but the open cluster NGC 6530 inside it was very noticable. 

*Things I looked for but did not see/find IN 100MM BINOS included  m51.

Ken A.


  • REC likes this

#21 junomike

junomike

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 15106
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 19 September 2015 - 06:35 AM

I (and  few others) finally got to try the LOA's on Thursday in my big Cat ~ C14 (thanks Eric!).

For me, the 3D effect was Immediately noticeable on most targets and on some I preferred the "near" while on others the "far" worked best.

There was only a few targets were I didn't notice any difference.

Most impressive target for me was M27 although M11, M13 and a few others also stood out.

Overall I was Impressed to see some old DSO's in a new perspective.

 

Mike



#22 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10529
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 19 September 2015 - 10:12 AM

I (and  few others) finally got to try the LOA's on Thursday in my big Cat ~ C14 (thanks Eric!).

For me, the 3D effect was Immediately noticeable on most targets and on some I preferred the "near" while on others the "far" worked best.

There was only a few targets were I didn't notice any difference.

Most impressive target for me was M27 although M11, M13 and a few others also stood out.

Overall I was Impressed to see some old DSO's in a new perspective.

 

Mike

I'm just starting out too, 3 nights so far. Most of the DSO's I saw looke good in them. Three that really looked fantastic, The Trifid nebula with the embedded star cluster, M17 the Swan and M13 filled the entire FOV. This was with the 10" Dob. Denk II and Power Switch. Much more to look at.



#23 junomike

junomike

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 15106
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 19 September 2015 - 12:49 PM

 

I (and  few others) finally got to try the LOA's on Thursday in my big Cat ~ C14 (thanks Eric!).

For me, the 3D effect was Immediately noticeable on most targets and on some I preferred the "near" while on others the "far" worked best.

There was only a few targets were I didn't notice any difference.

Most impressive target for me was M27 although M11, M13 and a few others also stood out.

Overall I was Impressed to see some old DSO's in a new perspective.

 

Mike

I'm just starting out too, 3 nights so far. Most of the DSO's I saw looke good in them. Three that really looked fantastic, The Trifid nebula with the embedded star cluster, M17 the Swan and M13 filled the entire FOV. This was with the 10" Dob. Denk II and Power Switch. Much more to look at.

 

Was this using a Filter or would that lesson the 3D effect (by blocking out background Stars)?

I was using a C14 which limits the FOV of a several DSO's although the one's that did fit were Impressive.

 

Mike



#24 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10529
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted 19 September 2015 - 01:01 PM

 

 

I (and  few others) finally got to try the LOA's on Thursday in my big Cat ~ C14 (thanks Eric!).

For me, the 3D effect was Immediately noticeable on most targets and on some I preferred the "near" while on others the "far" worked best.

There was only a few targets were I didn't notice any difference.

Most impressive target for me was M27 although M11, M13 and a few others also stood out.

Overall I was Impressed to see some old DSO's in a new perspective.

 

Mike

I'm just starting out too, 3 nights so far. Most of the DSO's I saw looke good in them. Three that really looked fantastic, The Trifid nebula with the embedded star cluster, M17 the Swan and M13 filled the entire FOV. This was with the 10" Dob. Denk II and Power Switch. Much more to look at.

 

Was this using a Filter or would that lesson the 3D effect (by blocking out background Stars)?

I was using a C14 which limits the FOV of a several DSO's although the one's that did fit were Impressive.

 

Mike

 

Well, I try them with and without. I think I liked the view better without, you don't lose the stars if there a bunch of them in the FOV. I'll have to make a not about that the next time out. In mono I would always use a filter on them, but splitting the light with a BV makes the scene dimmer to start out with, so the filter would dim it more. You have a lot more light gathering power with you C14 than I, so you can afford to lose some light.

 

On something like M42 being so bright, the nebula filter worked well when BV it last winter. Can't wait to see it in 3D!



#25 Doc Willie

Doc Willie

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
  • Joined: 31 Mar 2010
  • Loc: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY, USA

Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:54 PM

On our last outing, I checked out are last three objects (M13, M31, M57) with a pair of Televue 13 mm type 6 Naglers. At low power on the Denk-27 it gave roughly the same magnification as the 21 L-O-As at medium power. Both me and my buddy had the opinion that there was definitely more detail with the 13 Naglers than the L-O-As, and it was much easier to get a pinpoint focus with with 13s. So for serious pushing the limit viewing, I think the 3-Ds sacrifice detail for effect. For casual viewing and pure pleasure, the L-O-As have the edge. 




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics