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LOA 21 3D Observing

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#51 REC

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 12:41 PM

Sounds like you had a very busy morning! I read about these pairings but I don't have a very good view of the east, so missed it. I expect someone will post some pictures of it.

 

I had a similar view in June with Venus and Jupiter and 4 moons all in the same FOV of the eyepiece. Also the moon was not too far from the pairings as well. I got some decent pictures of the pairings.

 

A 17" scope, that must be awesome to look through!



#52 faackanders2

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 01:32 PM

Sounds like you had a very busy morning! I read about these pairings but I don't have a very good view of the east, so missed it. I expect someone will post some pictures of it.

 

I had a similar view in June with Venus and Jupiter and 4 moons all in the same FOV of the eyepiece. Also the moon was not too far from the pairings as well. I got some decent pictures of the pairings.

 

A 17" scope, that must be awesome to look through!

Should get even more interesting next week Oct 24-25 when Venus joins Mars/Jupiter and all 3 are only 1.1 deg apart!



#53 REC

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 02:19 PM

 

Sounds like you had a very busy morning! I read about these pairings but I don't have a very good view of the east, so missed it. I expect someone will post some pictures of it.

 

I had a similar view in June with Venus and Jupiter and 4 moons all in the same FOV of the eyepiece. Also the moon was not too far from the pairings as well. I got some decent pictures of the pairings.

 

A 17" scope, that must be awesome to look through!

Should get even more interesting next week Oct 24-25 when Venus joins Mars/Jupiter and all 3 are only 1.1 deg apart!

 

Yeah, that will be pretty cool to get all 3 in the same FOV.....hope it's a clear morning for you!



#54 TH1

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 07:15 PM

LOA works on a few stars in the FOV just fine. If the Array was not to your liking, it was because the stars were not correctly set in the Array path with the following:

Aperture for the FOV
Power Switch setting
Framing of the stars to the Array
Positioning the Array to the stars

As long as the Array has more than one object in the FOV, the Array can be set either to near or far ( no setting in between) for those two objects. With proper positioning.


Edited by TH1, 19 October 2015 - 09:36 PM.


#55 faackanders2

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:37 PM

LOA works on a few stars in the FOV just fine. If the Array was not to your liking, it was because the stars were not correctly set in the Array path with the following:

Aperture for the FOV
Power Switch setting
Framing of the stars to the Array
Positioning the Array to the stars

As long as the Array has more than one object in the FOV, the Array can be set either to near or far ( no setting in between) for those two objects. With proper positioning.

Well Jupiter it's 4 moons, Mars, and two other stars was not enough stars/objects to make it pop in 3D.  I did get it to make awful doubles of all the moons briefly.  I moved and jiggled my dob around to see if I could get something on the arrays to pop in different 3D layers, and after several minutes (probably 5) gave up and went to other eyepieces to enjoy Jupiter and Mars in the same view (favorite combo for that day was Denk II w/ 24mm panoptics).  Russ never recommended LOA 3D for planets; he recommended 3D just for DSOs.  I did not get two 2D LOA 21s which Russ recommends for planets.

 

P.S.  On other days I also noted DSOs with more stars provide better 3D effect than those with fewer stars.  Very few stars may yield.   After all there are only a maximum of 6 depth layers, and to get all 6 there has to be an object/star on each layer. 



#56 Jeff B

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 12:04 PM

Neptune and Uranus can be fun with the LOA as I can make the two small planets forward in the field against the background stars.

 

I find that view really cool.  I have not tried Jupiter yet.

 

Jeff



#57 TH1

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 04:28 PM

Hey faack, well guess it didn't hurt to try-

 

What's your comparison to my post again?

 

Saturn and Uranus are deep enough to try...

 

Jupiter and closer in? Much too bright.

 

 

BTW did the guy here that returned his unit take my advice and reorder? Hope so... Don't want him to miss out.

 

It's in all likelihood that problems with the LOA Array are attributed to trying keep the Array in view as the 3-D, instead of just using averted vision normally. This will also account for many reports of double staring.

 

Sometimes I get a little big headed from all this knowledge, but I will never put myself above others like some people I know...


Edited by TH1, 21 October 2015 - 04:30 PM.


#58 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:06 PM

Hey faack, well guess it didn't hurt to try-

 

What's your comparison to my post again?

 

Saturn and Uranus are deep enough to try...

 

Jupiter and closer in? Much too bright.

 

 

BTW did the guy here that returned his unit take my advice and reorder? Hope so... Don't want him to miss out.

 

It's in all likelihood that problems with the LOA Array are attributed to trying keep the Array in view as the 3-D, instead of just using averted vision normally. This will also account for many reports of double staring.

 

Sometimes I get a little big headed from all this knowledge, but I will never put myself above others like some people I know...

 

You are joking in like 90% of your posts, right? 

 

:belushi:



#59 faackanders2

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 10:27 PM

 

...

 

BTW did the guy here that returned his unit take my advice and reorder? Hope so... Don't want him to miss out.

 

It's in all likelihood that problems with the LOA Array are attributed to trying keep the Array in view as the 3-D, instead of just using averted vision normally. This will also account for many reports of double staring.

 

Sometimes I get a little big headed from all this knowledge, but I will never put myself above others like some people I know...

 

You are joking in like 90% of your posts, right? 

 

:belushi:

 

I was wondering where he was coming from.



#60 TH1

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 03:07 AM

Actually I'm not joking.

I'm sure everyone here will figure things out for the souls mis-hitting LOA without me...

Actually that's a joke right threre..

#61 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 07:31 AM

Actually I'm not joking.

I'm sure everyone here will figure things out for the souls mis-hitting LOA without me...

Actually that's a joke right threre..

 

Oh. I get it! You just flip the cape over your head for a canopy to get most out of LOA's, then come here and flip it back to a cape to save everyone mis-hitting. Very clever.



#62 TH1

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:22 AM

Telephone booths extremely hard to find nowadays...

#63 Eddgie

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 09:07 AM

Well, I know that people are getting a great deal of joy from their LOAs, and while I like them, I have to say that I was not using them because of the artifacts and the lack of being under dark skies, and no, I am not going to load my 12" dob into the car so I can drive to dark skies sot he LOAs will work better.

 

I did find the artifacts quite distracting under my light polluted skies, and after the first two weeks, had gone back to my D21s for the vast majority of my observing, reserving the LOAs for an occasional target where I thought they would give a pleasing effect.

 

And now that I am doing practically 100% of my observing with the PVS-7 Binoviewer, they are of no use to me.

I know Russ will hate me for it, but I am going to sell my pair.  I just can't justify keeping them, and I can put the money to much better use upgrading to a high end PVS-7.  If anyone knows someone that is impatient, you can let the know and they can PM me.   

Will have them listed by the weekend I think.

 

First LOA pair sold, will be the first LOA used pair sold.   Again, I know Russ will hate that, but I can't tie up money in something I don''t use now because my interests have changed.



#64 REC

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 10:11 AM

I wonder how many LOA's users are out there now?



#65 TH1

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 02:14 PM

Hi Eddgie,

 

What's your take on the PVS-7 and what does it do for you?

 

 

Thanks!


Edited by TH1, 22 October 2015 - 02:16 PM.


#66 Eddgie

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 03:30 PM

Well, I have two night vision devices.  The NVD Micro is a monocular and it has a very high end tube.  Very compact, light, and an amazing device for low power, wide field work

I bought a PVS-7 after that, but it had kind of an older Gen 3 tube that did not have the super great performance of the NVD MIcro. While the tube performance was not as good as the NVD Micro, just as with regular eyepieces, I guess I just liked using both eyes, so for most of my telecope observing, I had gone to the PVS-7.    I just liked using both eyes better.

 

What the PVS-7 did (as compared to the Binotron or Mark V) was to greatly extend the limiting magnitude of my scope and give me views from my back yard that I have never gotten before.   

These devices excel at reveling nebula too, and with ah H-alpha filter, nebula that are difficult in a conventional binoviewer really pop out in the PVS-7 (better in the Micro, but still darned good in the PVS-7).

 

And of course the PVS-7 can be used with SLR camera lenses (requires adatpers of course) and this gives the ability to do really wide field observing that is difficult to do any other way.

With a 610nm filter, even the PVS-7 showed great detail in the Mikly Way even from my light polluted front yard (assuming a decently clear night).   I live 3.5 miles from the center of the 11th largest city in the US, so being able to see the Milky Way at all was worth the price.  

 

So, have gone almost completely to night vision for everything but solar system of course.

 

Milky Way at 1x with image intensified is remarkable and even more remarkable to see it from my front yard....  



#67 TH1

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 04:23 PM

I believe the mono I looked through was the NVD. It's just incredible, the photons it picks up reveal swirl in galaxies, and the Cats Eye was something to see.

I would prefer a filtered view to cut down on the signal to niose, but its already as filtered as it can get with the green light being best for our eyes.

I can see getting this in the future in the form of a PV definitely . I also acknowledge the continued use of the Binotron for pure observing as the best view for most sights in the sky.

All our products have their strengths. It's why we need four scopes instead of one.

Looking back years from now, the Binotron will rule for planets, the moon, solar work, and 3-D views of DSOs that are unforgettable.


Edited by TH1, 22 October 2015 - 04:27 PM.


#68 Jeff B

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 09:28 AM

Ed, can you post a link?



#69 Eddgie

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 03:44 PM

Ed, can you post a link?

Me?

 

Link to what??



#70 Jeff B

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 06:47 PM

 

Ed, can you post a link?

Me?

 

Link to what??

 

Yes and the night vision devices.  Sounds very interesting.  Are they in color?

 

Jeff



#71 faackanders2

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 08:57 PM

 

 

Ed, can you post a link?

Me?

 

Link to what??

 

Yes and the night vision devices.  Sounds very interesting.  Are they in color?

 

Jeff

 

Most likely green.



#72 faackanders2

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 01:07 PM

This morning 10/25/2015 6-7AM(cloudy) 7-7:30AM I observered 1.1deg apart Venus/Jupiter (3 moons) and Mars (closest this pass) in the same view with FAAC’s 100mm right angle binos Orion/Vixen Tripod, and both my 9x63 and 15x63 Orion mini-giant binos on Garret pistol grip monopod with quick connect L brackets.  I was set up on the sidewalk in front of a neighbor’s house who had a clear view to the East (and who previously said it was OK for me to observe there in the early morning).  I was prepared to set up my 17.5” dob with binoviewers and single eyepieces, but the cloudy weather and wide field required to fit all 3 planets in same FOV favored binos today.

9x63mm Orion Mini-giant binos (5.0 deg TFOV, 7.0mm exit pupil, 26mm eye relief):
*Venus/Jupiter(3moons) in same 1.1 deg view plus Mars in same best view of morning, plus I also had the bonus of a meteorite passing through the triplet! – (1:30 o’clock) Venus appeared as very bright white medium size half phase (really crescent) with (12 o’clock) bright small/medium yellow Jupiter (bands not noticeable) and 3 moons in line (one close half diameter below, two far - one and 3 diameters away above).  Small starlike orange Mars at bottom left (6:30'clock) with a binary-like parallel star on the edge of view at 7 o’clock.  Jupiter/Venus also were the short parallel side of a trapezoid/trapezium with two stars forming the other parallel side at 11:30 o’clock 30/60 deg angle and 1 o’clock 20/70 deg angle on edge of view.  All 3 parallel line segments (Venus/Jupiter/2star trapezoid/trapezium & Mars/star) fit in the same single awesome field of view, and I observe this great view most of the visible morning.  Even when the orange dawn/twilight sky masked Mars’ light, I could still see Mars and the other stars in the bino FOV before I started to pack up).
*Orion Belt/Sword(M42 glow unfiltered)

 

15x63mm Orion Mini-giant binos (3.7 deg TFOV, 4.5mm exit pupil, 19mm eye relief):
*Venus/Jupiter(3moons) and two stars formed trapezoid/trapezium in same 1.1 deg view with 30% margin! Venus appeared lower right as very bright white medium/large size half phase (really crescent) with lower left bright small/medium yellow Jupiter (bands not noticeable) and 3 moons in line (one close half diameter below, two far - one and 3 diameters away above). Jupiter/Venus were the short parallel side of a trapezoid/trapezium and the other two stars formed the longer parallel side angled  30/60 deg angle on the Jupiter side and 20/70 deg angle on the Venus side.  Easy Pan to Mars one field of view down and slightly to the left (slightly more left than using the Venus side of the trapezoid 4x the distance).  Mars also has a star to the left parallel to and a quarter the distance of the Jupiter/Venus short side (trapezoid/traspezium).
*Mars/star – Very Small orange orb Mars easy to pan up and slightly to the right to the Venus/Jupiter/2star trapezoid/trapezium.

100mm 90deg right angle Orion binos w/ 24mm 68 AFOV Panoptic eyepieces (?? deg TFOV, ??mm exit pupil, ??mm eye relief):
*Venus/Jupiter(3moons) and two stars formed trapezoid/trapezium barely in same 1.1 deg view for second best view of morning! Venus appeared lower right as very bright white medium/large size half phase (really crescent) with lower left bright medium yellow Jupiter (bands not noticeable???) and 3 moons in line (one close half diameter below, two far - one and 3 diameters away above). Jupiter/Venus were the short parallel side of a trapezoid/trapezium and the other two stars formed the longer parallel side angled  30/60 deg angle on the Jupiter side and 20/70 deg angle on the Venus side (on edge of view).  Easy Pan to Mars 3-4 field of view down and slightly to the left (slightly more left than using the Venus side of the trapezoid 4x the distance).  Also it would drift from Jupiter/Venus to Mars in the center after a few minutes observing with the other binos, so I never really had to refind the planets!  Mars also has a star to the left parallel to and a quarter the distance of the Jupiter/Venus short side (trapezoid/trapezium).
*Mars/star – Small orange orb Mars easy to pan up and slightly to the right to the Venus/Jupiter/2star trapezoid/trapezium.

 

100mm 90deg right angle Orion binos w/ 21 LOA 3D Denkmeier 21mm 68 AFOV eyepieces (?? deg TFOV, ??mm exit pupil, ??mm eye relief) – Note Denkmeier does not recommend for (non-DSO) planets but I attempted anyway:
*Venus/Jupiter(3moons) and one star of trapezoid/trapezium barely in same 1.1 deg non-3D view. Venus appeared lower right as very bright white medium/large size half phase (really crescent) with lower left bright medium yellow Jupiter (bands not noticeable???) and 3 moons in line (one close half diameter below, two far - one and 3 diameters away above). Jupiter/Venus were the short parallel side of a trapezoid/trapezium and the other two stars formed the longer parallel side angled  30/60 deg angle on the Jupiter side and had to pan to the upper right for the 20/70 deg angle on the Venus side (beyond edge of view).  Pan to Mars 4-5 field of view down and slightly to the left.  Mars also has a star to the left parallel to and a quarter the distance of the Jupiter/Venus short side (trapezoid/trapezium).  Note only noticed the trapezium and 3 parallel lines in the other wider binos.
*Mars/star non-3D – Small orange orb Mars easy to pan up and slightly to the right to the Venus/Jupiter/2star trapezoid/trapezium.

P.S  Most likely same equipment will work just as well tomorrow, but I do have to go to work.   :(

Ken


Edited by faackanders2, 25 October 2015 - 01:20 PM.


#73 faackanders2

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:05 PM

Feel free to post yout LOA 213D observing experiences here.



#74 mikey cee

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 12:48 PM

Feel free to post yout LOA 213D observing experiences here.

We are??   :lol:



#75 REC

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 10:14 AM

We had a great night last night with a 5/5 transparency. I took out my 10" Dob to do some general observing. Spent a lot of time observing the Veil nebula with a 34mm SWA EP and a OIII filter. One of the best views I ever had of it.

 

Anyway, I then used my DenkII BV with a Power Switch and the LOA's. I tried the Veil again without the filter, but it was not visible. So while in the area I panned the Cygnus area and M29 and saw lots of star fields in 3D. Next over to M57 the Ring nebula with the low power arm (78x) and the LOA in the N near position. Very nice in the field and had the floating in front 3D view. This is one of the best targets for LOA I believe. Then I moved up to the middle setting of the Power Switch (115x) and the Ring was bigger and still held up well with the magnification. I spent a lot of time on this and using averted vision could make out the hole in the Ring. Then I went up to the high power setting (170x) which I rarely use on DSO's, but the seeing must have been really good to as the Ring still had detail. It was really large in the FOV and again could see the hole pretty well.

 

Next up was my favorite cluster, the Double in Perseus. My eastern view of the sky is the worst for me because of light pollution. I'm in a Red zone, but as it gets closer to the zenith I can see mag.5 stars on a good night of transparency. The cluster was about 30* over the horizon, so gave it a shot. I was surprized, the surrounding sky was pretty dark and the stars looked like little diamonds against black velvet. I could almost fit both clusters in the view, but just centered each one to observe. The 3D effect was there on some stars and changed as I panned around the cluster. I'm not sure what the NGC number is for the cluster on the bottom that is shapped someone like a "C", but that is my favorite of the two. This was in the low power arm for 75x and then I moved to the middle power, 115x. This was much better now, really dark sky background and sharp stars throughout the FOV. I believe the 3D effect was more pronounced at this power. I spent a lot of time on this cluster, just beautifull and so comfortable to view it with two eyes!

 

By now M31 was getting a little higher in the sky and I could just barely see it with the naked eye. It still needs to get about 20* higher in the sky and should should really be awesome as it approaches Zenith where my LP is not that bad. In the low power arm, it of course took up the whole FOV and then some. Very bright core and I could just fit M32 in the FOV. For this object I had the "F" far setting dialed in as we know the galaxy sits outside ours. I was able to make out some form of the spiral shape on both sides of the core I believe.

 

Well that was it for the night, everything was soaked in dew by 10pm, so called it a night. Just a side note, I think my LP must be getting worse? I was back inside my dark house and looking out the patio door I could easily see everything on the ground and it didn't look really that dark up in the sky. My eyes no doubt where fully dark adapted. Now when I observe I use a hood over my head and block out all light at the EP and it really helps for DSO observing.




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