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Celestron 102mm AZ review

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#26 Peter Besenbruch

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 04:06 PM

 - What does versatile mean?  It means that it can be used for a greater variety of tasks.  The 102-AZ is more versatile than my 25 inch F/5 Dob. The Dob is certainly far more capable at high powers, far more solid.. But it's not very versatile..

 

What does versatile mean? It means, when it comes to scopes, that a telescope can do a variety of tasks and do them reasonably well. The f9.8, 4" is the more versatile scope. It is not too big to be used as a grab and go, judging from the comments from users on cloudy nights. It is capable of 2.7 to 2.8° views (think nicely framed Pleiades), while showing more detail and better contrast at higher power. An f6.6 is not a generalist's scope. It is a specialty scope.

 

Furthermore, when it comes to extra purchases, the diagonal that comes with the f9.8 instrument at least will be sharp at 100x and higher. If you can live with the 1.6° field limitation (think shoe horned Pleiades), the extra purchases for a beginner are minimal. I personally think the Omni XLT 4" (with a CG-4 mount) at $450 is a better beginner's scope that the AZ version. It does more and is more stable. When you factor the extras you have to buy, it's not really much more expensive.



#27 wargrafix

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 06:02 PM

I can confirm it takes 2" eyepiece meaning 2" accessories
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Its 1.25 adapter has t threads!
get.jpg
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#28 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 06:19 AM

 

 

What does versatile mean? It means, when it comes to scopes, that a telescope can do a variety of tasks and do them reasonably well. The f9.8, 4" is the more versatile scope. It is not too big to be used as a grab and go, judging from the comments from users on cloudy nights. It is capable of 2.7 to 2.8° views (think nicely framed Pleiades), while showing more detail and better contrast at higher power. An f6.6 is not a generalist's scope. It is a specialty scope.

Furthermore, when it comes to extra purchases, the diagonal that comes with the f9.8 instrument at least will be sharp at 100x and higher. If you can live with the 1.6° field limitation (think shoe horned Pleiades), the extra purchases for a beginner are minimal. I personally think the Omni XLT 4" (with a CG-4 mount) at $450 is a better beginner's scope that the AZ version. It does more and is more stable. When you factor the extras you have to buy, it's not really much more expensive.

 

That may be reasonable definition of versatile.  I would say a versatile scope is one that does an adequate job.  From my point of view, having owned both, the only thing the 4 inch F/10 does better is planetary and double stars.  Otherwise, the 4 inch F/6.6 just does more things.. It can be used terrestrially, it's a super finder in comparison to the F/10, star hopping is the biggest challenge for a beginner and the 102 F/6.6 on an Alt-Az mount is certainly much better for star hopping. The whole rig is definitely easy grab and go. The 43 lb XLT.. not around here... 

 

So, from my point of view, if a beginner wants a telescope that performs at high magnifications and is willing to sacrifice portability, an 8 inch Dob is the obvious choice.  It will run circles around either of these scope for any object that fits in the field of view. For a beginner that wants a telescope that is easy to use, easy to setup and a scope that is intuitive, that is easy to star hop with, a telescope that can be used to look at the mountain in the distance or a bird on a telephone wire across the way.. This one should do the job.  

 

Part of the difficulty here is that you began thinking this was the old 102mm F/5 on the AZ-3 mount.  I have owned that one, it is definitely more limited, the mount is really best suited for terrestrial and at F/5, it's very fast and the false color is significant.  But at some point it became clear that this was not that scope.  First came the scope itself, F/6.6 rather than F/5.. A definite improvement in making it a better all around scope.  And then, after some coaxing, you realized that the mount is not the old AZ-3 but rather an entirely new, balanced mount with gear driven slow motion controls.  Quite a different animal.  It's an entirely different package.  

 

This review is about the 102mm XLT AZ, reading wargrafix's review would have revealed that which scope this really is, saved us both a lot of trouble. I was like you, I thought it was that old F/5.. But I found out different.  I would like to concentrate on the 102mm F/6.6 and finding out what it is, what it can do...  There are plenty of alternatives to discuss but this thread ought to be about this scope and not some other scope.  

 

Jon

 

PS.. a 1000mm focal length means the maximum possible field of view, 2.64 degrees with a 2 inch diagonal, 1.60 degrees with 1.25 inch diagonal.. Field stop calculation.

 

 

 

-


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#29 wargrafix

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 08:42 AM

Lets clear up the misconception
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#30 rmollise

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 09:07 AM

I already explained why the 4 inch F/6.6 is more versatile, why it has capabilities that the 4 inch F/10 simply does not have.  As I said, the advantage of the 4 inch F/10 is that it is better at high magnifications.  That's it.  It is too long to be an effective terrestrial scope, it's long focal length makes it difficult for starhopping unless a 2 inch eyepiece and diagonal are purchased and even then it is no better than the F/6.6 with a 1.25 inch eyepiece. The 102mm F/6.6 does stuff that you can't do with a F/10, Deep sky,bright, wide views..


Not really. This is hardly "too long" a focal length for star hopping even with a freaking 1.25-inch Plossl. :lol:

Since when is <1000mm too much for the deep sky? Do you spend all your time looking at M31 and NGC7000? Most deep sky objects are far better suited for the C102's focal length, and even then you'll need short fl eyepieces for many of them to shine.

And the problem is that low or high power, the f/9.8's images are just significantly better--on everything. ;)
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#31 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 10:18 AM

 

I already explained why the 4 inch F/6.6 is more versatile, why it has capabilities that the 4 inch F/10 simply does not have.  As I said, the advantage of the 4 inch F/10 is that it is better at high magnifications.  That's it.  It is too long to be an effective terrestrial scope, it's long focal length makes it difficult for starhopping unless a 2 inch eyepiece and diagonal are purchased and even then it is no better than the F/6.6 with a 1.25 inch eyepiece. The 102mm F/6.6 does stuff that you can't do with a F/10, Deep sky,bright, wide views..


Not really. This is hardly "too long" a focal length for star hopping even with a freaking 1.25-inch Plossl. :lol:

Since when is <1000mm too much for the deep sky? Do you spend all your time looking at M31 and NGC7000? Most deep sky objects are far better suited for the C102's focal length, and even then you'll need short fl eyepieces for many of them to shine.

And the problem is that low or high power, the f/9.8's images are just significantly better--on everything. ;)

 

 

Rod:

 

With a 4 inch scope, I do spend most of my time on the low power wide field stuff because that's what a 4 inch scope does better than a larger scope. I have never done a side by side with the 100mm F/6 Orion and the 102mm F/10 Celestron, I did not own them at the same time.  But I have compared the Orion to my NP-101... Obviously the Orion does not provide the perfection of the TV scope but I was pretty happy with how it performed on Globulars and planetary nebulae.  

 

As far as star hoping.. with a finder, the scope doesn't matter much.  But there is no doubt that a 4 inch scope with a long focal length 2 inch wide field, it's a super finder.. 

 

Jon


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#32 wargrafix

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 01:16 PM

Its really apple and oranges since a f10 scope is for a different function.
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#33 rmollise

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 03:58 PM

Rod:
 
With a 4 inch scope, I do spend most of my time on the low power wide field stuff because that's what a 4 inch scope does better than a larger scope. I have never done a side by side with the 100mm F/6 Orion and the 102mm F/10 Celestron, I did not own them at the same time.  But I have compared the Orion to my NP-101... Obviously the Orion does not provide the perfection of the TV scope but I was pretty happy with how it performed on Globulars and planetary nebulae.  
 
As far as star hoping.. with a finder, the scope doesn't matter much.  But there is no doubt that a 4 inch scope with a long focal length 2 inch wide field, it's a super finder.. 
 
Jon


My wife owns an ES102AR, a similar scope. I like it fine, but the C102 is superior in the backyard. Still a nice wide field at its reasonable focal length, and less color.

 

What little difference there is in star-hopping with a wider field is made up for by the fact that the wide field is too bright in my backyard to make object finding easier. Yes, you can get the shorter scope to lower powers more easily, but it doesn't help if the object you are hunting has disappeared in the background glow. ;)


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#34 TexasSky

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 11:57 PM

Hi there!

well I received the 102 f6.5 omni xlt today.....first impression was Wow, this thing is a lot lighter and overall much more compact than my explore ar102 I had owned....darn thing is compact and light!.....perfect for me, as this was my goal!.....

sure is pretty.......nice finish, lens looks crisp.....focuser is actually pretty nice....smooth and rigid.....and yup, definitely 2" capable!......

I was originally concerned about it not having mounting rings.....but now I think it's actually good as is.......the dovetail is nice, machined aluminum....and it being light and a metal tube seems very adequate......here's some pics on my explore twilight mount......I'm very excited as this seems it will be a great combo.....

 

 

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#35 TexasSky

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 12:02 AM

Only thing that might need to be fixed is to move the dovetail further aft towards the focuser.....I think a 2" diagonal with a heavy Nagler might move the balance further aft than it can currently move.......



#36 Abhat

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 07:00 AM

The pictures look nice. Congratulations!! Dovetail is always an issue with most Celestron scopes. They are too short and placed in the wrong spot. It compels you to buy the rings.  Please send us an update on how the CA is and the views are in general.



#37 wargrafix

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 09:01 AM

Very very nice pics!

#38 wargrafix

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:00 AM

The accessories
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The OTA

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Edited by wargrafix, 25 October 2015 - 11:02 AM.


#39 Peter Besenbruch

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:18 PM

That may be reasonable definition of versatile.  I would say a versatile scope is one that does an adequate job.  From my point of view, having owned both, the only thing the 4 inch F/10 does better is planetary and double stars.  Otherwise, the 4 inch F/6.6 just does more things.. It can be used terrestrially, it's a super finder in comparison to the F/10, star hopping is the biggest challenge for a beginner and the 102 F/6.6 on an Alt-Az mount is certainly much better for star hopping. The whole rig is definitely easy grab and go. The 43 lb XLT.. not around here... 

 

One other aspect of versatility is that I am assuming the scope is a person's only instrument. You speak of the scope (and Wargrafix uses it as) an adjunct to the main scope. The f9.8 is a better all round scope, capable of doing what an astronomical telescope should do: Wide field, planetary viewing, and everything in between.

 

I will comment on a couple of items. I found chromatic aberration with such a scope to be slightly bothersome. Ideally, the scope should have been longer for planetary. At f6.5 it would be significantly worse. In my back yard, much of the viewing is lunar and planetary. It wouldn't be that usable.  At a dark site it would be a different story, a good, fun sweeper, but it would be an adjunct to a scope that could reach higher magnifications. That certainly is useful, but hardly versatile.


Edited by Peter Besenbruch, 25 October 2015 - 11:25 PM.

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#40 wargrafix

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 10:58 AM

Long APOs have less CA, true, but its irritatingly long and cumbersome at times.


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#41 csrlice12

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 01:15 PM

Just take it out and enjoy it...you'll learn soon enough what looks good in it and what doesn't.  It's a decent enough scope and will do what it is designed to do...but, like all scopes, that means there's other things it won't do well.  It's why most of us have more than one scope.  Congrats also on the Twilight 1....recently got one for my 102XLT (the f9.8 version of your scope) and love it....it fits all my scopes except the dob.....


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#42 earthbot1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:02 PM

Nice looking scope! 



#43 Peter Besenbruch

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 01:00 AM

Long APOs have less CA, true, but its irritatingly long and cumbersome at times.

 

As do short APOs. Longer scopes have less curvature and spherical aberration, but csrlice12 is right, you should point it at some stars and enjoy it. I consider it a wide angle sweeper, which happens to be something your C9.25 isn't that good at. It should be nice to have both.



#44 wargrafix

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 09:41 AM

I am enjoying it! Honestly, I bought this for wide field, not for planets. For planets I got my planet killing 9.25.


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#45 Peter Besenbruch

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 07:18 PM

For planets I got my planet killing 9.25.

 

​Leave some planets for the rest of us. ;)



#46 wargrafix

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 06:40 PM

No guarantee though.:-P. I have a crazy config going on. Can't wait to post pics

#47 dmerzbac

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 11:34 AM

I am a new member to this forum, recently retired and new to astronomy,  but I am really enjoying the articles, information, and helpful hints. I recently purchased the Celestron Omni 102 xlt az and I am seeing some of the same issues that others are talking about.  First let me say that I am liking this scope even though I have been limited so far to lunar observations. I did buy two or three additional X-Cel eyepieces and I have noticed some sagging with the mount/tripod when using these lenses. The mount seems to be fairly sturdy, but I can see the need for a stronger mount and rings. The StarFinder seems to work fine so far, but as I said earlier my observations have been fairly limited. As for a new diagonal, it's wait and see how the stock one works.

 

My impressions so far tell me that this scope will probably be used more for grab and go, but in the mean time I am going to enjoy it as much as I can. I do see myself investing in a beginning SCT in the future as I grow into this area of interest. Any suggestions would certainly be helpful and appreciated.

 

Thanks, Dave


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#48 Brollen

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:03 PM

Hi Dave

 

Welcome and congrats on your purchase. I think that scope will serve you well as you get going.

 

The X-Cel EPs are a bit heavy but not as heavy as others. Still probably a lot heavier than the EPs that came with your scope so you may need to rebalance it by either moving the dovetail within the clamp at the top of the mount arm or by moving the scope within the rings... or both.

 

As far as a SCT, you can't go wrong with either a C6 or C8. The C6 may possibly work in the 102az mount - may be a stretch - but the C8 would likely need a different mount.

 

Good luck and clear skies!

Roger



#49 tony_spina

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:52 PM

Dave,

While observing the moon. What is your impression of the CA?  Is the CA very obvious or is it mild?

 

Curious if the CA is better controlled than in the new Meade 102f6



#50 dmerzbac

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 10:55 AM

Roger, Thanks for the helpful advice on the rebalance. I will definitely try that out your suggestions. I would rather not shell out a lot more money at this time, but save it for another scope later on.

 

As for the CA,, Tony, with my novice eyes I did not notice any significant CA while observing the moon. Pretty mild, Will try on full moon w/filter and see what happens..

 

David




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